Living off the land..

[RachelMarie]

I have written out a list of what to do if the time arises and I have made 4 copies. One for home, one for each car and one for work. TRUST me when I say I am as prepared as they come reguarding plans, exit strategies etc.

Just as long as you're prepared to let your family starve without you. If you loot, you will be killed. If not the first time, then one of the next times, but you will be killed. Your family is now more likely to starve or God knows what horrible fate. It's a bad idea

If I loot....i'm close to dead already. Like I said...looting IS MY LAST OPTION! I'm not going to defend myself any more on this situation. You can read my previous posts to know my feelings on the subject. that's it.

I sympathize with your sentiments of doing whatever it takes to provide for family (my wife and I are expecting a little girl any day now, after waiting many years for this blessing). I will certainly "do whatever it takes", but i'm not pre-contemplating any looting. If worse comes to worst, i'll just have to see what the Lord provides. He will provide for our needs, not always our wants

First and foremost...Congrats on the little one! I loved your post. And I too believe it's in gods hands, and really, I'm not trying to pre-contemplate looting...trust me. I'm def not planing on it...But I wanted to throw some honesty in this thread....and if push comes to shove, So be it! I'm not a firm believe in just waiting around and seeing what the Lord will do whem the time arises. Like I said, I plan for the worst. I am prepared for a small disaster and a life threatening one. Hopefully I won't need to use my skills. We have escape routes and picked places withing 50 miles all around us, We've buiilt shelters (and are going to do more this spring/summer), we have food and water and most of the things you NEED. Heck, I even have stock piled veggie seeds and wheat, etc. And yes, we do have lists of things the family could do to make money. It's all on the same list I have copies of (10 pages long).

There will be some that will do anything they can to help feed those that are without, especially children. I think most people in this country still have compassion for children.

Like I said, I think we might be planning for different types of disasters. I'm planning for the worst. The worst to me means, NO ONE will have food to spare. NO ONE. Comapsion towards children isn't going to help if you and your family are starving too.

Our alternative package would be a map of other ares where people can go from here, and a small food portion to help them along. An outer area on our property designated for those who wish to "camp"- "out" with us for a short period of time.

GREAT IDEA>

As a Micro Farmer or Rancher, I have a security perimeter, and various other measures in place that add to my security. I won't say more than that, but to add may God have mercy on the soul of them that attempt to breach my perimeter. The act of attempting to breach, is in my view a physical attack on me and mine and would be dealt with accordingly.

And I agree and have taken the same steps here as you. I think the difference is that I KNOW it will be attempted if the situation arises. It sucks...but its the truth! There are hundreds of people in our area (and your area and everyones area) who are completly clueless. So if it gets as bad as it could...expect to be bum rushed, I DO.



On that note, it's been a good conversation with you all but I've got lots to do. You know where I stand, you can either love me or hate me but know that I have the guts to speak the truth. I'm trying not to sugar coat a shtf situation. I'm more prepared than most can comprehend. And maybe I shouldnt think about a situation so bad that you have to do things you totally disagree with, but atleast if it is needed...I know what I'm doing! Looting/stealing would be going against everything I stand for...everything I believe in, everything I AM!

Take care and I hope everyone has a wonderful Monday! God Bless.

 

[oldfb]

I just finished reading a book titled 'Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse' by James Wesley Rawles.

Here is the description on Amazon:
A fast-paced novel that follows a group of Christian survivalists through a stock market crash, an economic collapse, and a second civil war. It is packed with useful information on how to survive a disaster.

I am sure some have read this book. while it is fiction...it is written to give you ideas on how to survive and what to expect. It is scary how the start of the book mirrors what is going on now and it was written back in 1999. The author is a former intelligence officer. I found it useful. Might be extreme sometimes but I enjoyed it.

If you read the Survival blog and Rawles explanation on Derivatives and match that up with The banks bailout and this latest stimulus plan and don't think that the SHTF already and most of us are just too uninformed to know it I would be surprised. Ya know how if ya cut a chickens head off and it still runs around. That is how I feel now. I want us to stop this economic fall before it is too late. The best way to do this and survive will be by buying a little bit more of the daily essentials with each paycheck. Buy an extra roll of tinfoil for our hats. Extra TP and razors. Canned foods and dry goods. Solar battery chargers and laundry soap. Beans, bacon and bullets. If everyone as a nation were to start buying now what we will use later we will stop this downturn. I am surprised just our ammo purchases alone haven't turned this economy around. Thought I would share this hear since some of us newer preps might not understand that not living off the land and being stewards of our finances is how we may just end up starving on a cold night somewhere.

Note: Permission to reprint, repost or forward the following article in full is granted, but only if it is not edited or excerpted.

(This article was first posted to SurvivalBlog.com on Sept. 25, 2006.)

Derivatives--The Mystery Man Who'll Break the Global Bank at Monte Carlo
By James Wesley, Rawles -- Editor of SurvivalBlog.com
When I do radio interviews or lecture presentations, I'm often asked: "Mister Rawles, what do you see as a likely 'worst case scenario'?" People expect me to say "a full scale nuclear exchange in World War III" or, "a stock market crash", or "a flu pandemic", or "a sudden end to the current real estate bubble." But most of them are surprised when I respond: Economic collapse triggered by the popping of the derivatives bubble. Many people that are involved in the periphery of the investing--including most small investors--have never even heard of derivatives. They may have heard of 'hedge funds", but they don't understand what they are. Yet in terms of the sheer number of Dollars, Yen, and Euros traded, these investments represent the biggest financial market of all.

What are derivatives? The Derivatives Primer sums it up nicely in one sentence: "Derivatives are financial contracts designed to create pure price exposure to an underlying commodity, asset, rate, index or event." Another way of putting is it is that a derivative contract is a secondary or "derived" wager on the future price of an investment in an underlying market. It is much like the futures markets for stocks, bonds, and commodities. But a derivative can be something even more speculative. A derivative can be a bet on a incremental market change in yet another bet on an incremental change--in effect a hedge on a hedge, or bet on a bet. Derivatives are traded globally, and are less regulated than other financial markets. All traders like to hedge their bets. And these days they typically use exotic derivative contracts to do so.

Derivative contracts can be traded in just about anything: stock, bonds, commodities, credit, interest rates, or currencies. You can place a derivative bet on next year's price of QQQ (the aggregate price of all NASDAQ stocks), or you can place a bet on the price of tea in China. A corporation can make a forward rate agreement (FRA), predicting the interest rate that it will pay on money that it plans to borrow for a factory expansion in two years. An agreement to borrow or lend a certain amount of principal at a specified interest rate and time.You can bet on the future of the futures market in pork bellies. Economist Robert Chapman summed it up best when he wrote: "The point everyone misses is buying derivatives is not investing. It is gambling, insurance and high stakes bookmaking. Derivatives create nothing."

How big is the derivatives universe? As William Shatner would say: "Big, reaalllly big!" The scary thing is that the volume of derivatives trades is much larger than their underlying markets. To give you some perspective, here is a quote from economist Gary Novak, "The total annual product of the globe is around $30 trillion. I estimate that the total value of the global real estate is around $50 trillion. A few years ago, Alan Greenspan said the amount of derivatives on the books was $200 trillion. More recently, the figure was stated to be $300 trillion. Now, someone is saying $770 trillion." That's a lot of zeroes.

Economist Robert Chapman was one the first to warn the public about the full implications of the derivatives bubble. More recently, there have been many others, most notably by Michael J. Panzner, (best known as the author of Stock Market Jungle), who last year penned The Coming Disaster in the Derivatives Market. In a July, 2003 commentary titled "He's Forever Blowing Bubbles" (about Alan Greenspan), Dr. Gary North encapsulated the greatest risk of the ever-expanding hedge trading universe: "The derivatives market is an interconnected system of debts and credits that are based mainly on expected earnings of assets of all kinds. Sellers of expected earnings discount them in a highly leveraged financial futures market. Winners and losers offset each other in any transaction. It's a zero-sum game: for every loser, there is a winner, assuming – the central assumption on which our civilization rests – the loser pays off. If he doesn't, "the knee bone's connected to the thigh bone; the thigh bone's connected to the hip bone." It's cascading cross defaults time!"

The first really big indication of the potential risk of derivatives came in 1999, when the heavy-into-hedges trading firm Long-Term Capital Management (LTCM) collapsed. At the time, they were carrying $1.4 trillion (that's trillion with a "T", not "B" for billion) in derivatives on their books. But LTCM had only about $4 billion in net asset value, with assets totaling over $100 billion. Again they had about $1.4 TRILLION in derivatives bets on the table when the house of cards collapsed. They were quietly and quickly bailed out in joint effort between the U.S. Federal Reserve and some big banks, minimizing the public outcry. (Unlike the Enron collapse, with the LTCM collapse, few small investors were hurt.) In testimony before congress about the LTCM mess, former Fed chairman Al Greenspan noted ominously: "...on occasion there will be mistakes made, as there were in LTCM and I will forecast without knowing who, what or where, that there will be many more. I would suspect there are potential disasters running into a very large number, in the hundreds."

Robert Chapman pointed out that had not the Federal Reserve and the big lenders stepped in on the LTCM debacle, the markets would have had to absorb an $80 billion hit. At the time that LTCM went down in '99, only six banks had notional derivatives exposure above $1 trillion. But there are now dozens and perhaps a hundred or more private banks, investment firms, central banks, and national governments with that much derivatives exposure.

Before the 1999 LTCM debacle, there were some forewarnings of derivatives disasters:

The 1994 bankruptcy of Orange County, to the tune of $1.6 billion, due to some incredibly naïve and foolhardy investments in derivatives by one man that handled investments for the county.

The 1995 failure of the 233-year old Barings Bank, $27 billion in derivatives bets gone bad were reportedly the result of unauthorized futures and options trading by just one man, described as a "rogue employee."

The Asian financial crisis of 1997, where derivatives "played a key role."

The Future

The global derivatives universe hums along nicely in times like these--in times like we've had since 1988. There are no nasty LTCM-type headlines. In such times market changes are gradual and incremental. For example, a derivatives trader makes a tidy profit when he bets that the Dow Jones will be 2.2% higher next year instead of the generally expected 1.9% Or another bets that higher fuel costs will put the pinch on bird guano miners in the South Pacific, curtailing their annual profits. What the hedge book boys have never encountered is a market with huge swings--something like the equities markets of the 1929 to 1935 era. If that volatility were to occur today, many derivatives traders would surely be wiped out. Their losses would be monumental. Again, we are talking about somewhere between $300 trillion and $770 trillion presently on the casino table. These are boggling figures. The risks, in absolute terms, are incalculable. Don't forget that directly or indirectly, central ("state") banks and national governments themselves are now inextricably tied to the derivatives trading universe. They are not just "dabbling in derivatives". Rather, they are in derivatives up to their necks. If and when the global derivatives bubble ever pops, it may topple not just trading companies like Goldman Sachs, or corporations like GM, Daimler-Chrysler, or RCA, but entire nations. I'm not kidding.

The derivatives market was relatively small when the U.S. markets had their last big hiccup in 1987, and it was even smaller when the commodities markets went through their last big spikes in 1978 to 1981. The whole derivatives universe has grown up since then. So we are in essentially uncharted waters, with no way to predict the effects of huge markets swings on the derivatives markets. The hedge boys will be entering terra incognita. The big market swings will blind-side the hedge traders. Some will get hurt very badly. The implications could be huge.

As another precursor of trouble ahead, the latest hedge fund fiasco was reported in September of 2006 by Bill Bonner and Lila Rajiva: "Hedge fund Amaranth Advisors [an Energy derivatives firm] managed to lose $4.6 billion - about half its entire value - in a matter of just a few days through a sensational miscalculation of the price of natural gas futures in the spring of 2007. Today's news tells us the figure has now grown to $6 billion."

Protect Yourself with Tangible Investments

This decade of the "Aughts" may go down in history as the decade of the Derivatives Implosion. Because of their derivatives books, some major corporations may go down in flames, wiping out investors. Entire currencies might even cease to exist. Protect yourself. Diversify out of dollar denominated paper investments. Hedge into tangibles like silver and gold. Buy some productive farm or ranch land with plentiful water where you'll fare better if the power grid goes down. For some detailed guidance on both tangibles investing and physical survival, read my daily blog: SurvivalBlog.com

In closing, my advice is to do your own form of hedging: Hedge against the future follies of the big hedge funds by diversifying out of dollars and into tangibles. You can expect trouble to occur when you start to see radical swings in interest rates or in the stock and bond markets. I predict that someday there will be big, bad, financial news about derivatives in the headlines. How big? Reaalllly big.

Disclaimer: I'm not a registered investment adviser. I'm just an individual investor with my own opinions.

Copyright 2006. All Rights Reserved by James Wesley, Rawles - www.SurvivalBlog.com™ Permission to reprint, repost or forward this article in full is granted, but only if it is not edited or excerpted.

About the Author:
James Wesley, Rawles is a former U.S. Army Intelligence officer and a noted author and lecturer on survival and preparedness topics. He is the author of the novel "Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse" and is the editor of SurvivalBlog.com--the Internet's most popular daily web journal for prepared individuals living in uncertain times.

 

[oldfb]

BTW Mike
I understand legacy seeds purpose but if they are stored properly wouldn't it make sense to use the fast grower hybrids for the first light off of a recovery garden and hold the legacy seeds for when the hybrids are all gone?

Since we cannot use the available community common land for growing now we have had to plan heavier on basic rations for the initial event until we could plant,

I also agree with the greyman approach in my earlier post I was musing about the vetting process for starting my mag locally. I am in a rural area but we have a close community that if planned properly could sustain most if not all af those left behind with just a few modifications. Since I would be unable to do it alone because of the disabilities I figured on my logistics and initial plans and supplies to offset that. I might not be able to handle the day to day operations but the fact that I have enough seed< knowledge, supplies, technical abilities and equipment to get us started should in theory keep us from exile Plus my wifes Nursing and Medical skills and other knowledge it would be a great contribution or asset to say the least.

As far as my disabilities go I would be able to contribute more than I give myself credit for I am sure. Way more than most of the fit and trim whiners will be willing to do. I have been up to my elbows in crap and seen the lack of dedication out there. I just got benched with a bad back and hip. I still outworked every employee I had when crunch time came. Oneday I took stock of my situation and finally went to the Dr before I was so crippled I would need someone to carry me to the potty.

RMarie:
I am glad you clarified that only as a last, last last, really last resort would you kill (somebody) so you could feed your children.
I find that much more disturbing than refreshing chica.
I think I understand your points but still pray that if that time were ever to come you will take that Christian faith you express and decide that anothers children are entitled to life equal to your children.

I pray when the time comes that those of us who stand for Good stand for God!

Those that do not will already have taken the mark of the beast and sold their souls as one of those (Last Resorts).

We will face a reckoning and be judged not for our acts and deeds but by the salvation in our hearts.
Wink wink about doing "AnyThing" to feed your children before takng anothers livelyhood or life, seems like you believe in salvation. Until it comes down to survival of the ones willing to do whatever it takes to survive.
If we have no more sacrifice left to give and only determination in our hearts to survive (no matter the cost) I for one do not want to survive in that world. I will make it my dying act to ensure that I bring as many of those (at all cost) vermin with me.

It is a daily choice of free will to stand for the lght! It is easy when the road is clear to follow HIS path. Only those who choose to follow HIM when the road is strewn with hardship and despair will ever bathe in the love HE gives.

In other words: yes, I know there will be evil all around us and defending our families survival is just and true.
I for one choose to "fool" myself into believing that when I have exhausted every other option, I will not falter from the Lords path in my darkest hours.
I will have taught my children by my faith and actions that the ends do not justify the means.
Perhaps our sacrifice will ensure that we will share in HIS Kingdom rather than just surviving another few years before eternal fire.

Maybe I am a fool because I feel that by standing on my faith and praying for strength and testifying I will not give into temptation and falter when times are darkest. Perhaps I fool and kid myself that it is much better than admitting defeat to the enemy and proclaiiming that in the end I will act or be no better than the animals I swear to protect my family from.

Never ever give the enemy a stronghold in your heart.
Tell yourself with every breath you will not falter in your cruical trials and tribulations.
Don't be eve to the serpent!
Do not give the enemy the key to you sacrificing your soul.
Recant those wicked words od (survival at all cost) for my children.
Would you force your children to eat the dammnation of your soul for survival in this earthly world?

Whew I am sorry I went all fire and brimstone on ya all.
You don't have to recant or be healed, just do not advertise that you are really willing to become Satans pawn if you run out of viable christian options.
It really comes across as more evidence that the evil will win out over the good. You can have all of my supplies when I am gone and hopefully you will not eat the one poisoned ration bar that is in our stash that my famly all know not to eat but no one else knows about.

Take care everyone and know that all of you are in my prayers,
Chris

 

[IndianaWoodsman]

I am a Christian. And I do believe the end-times prophecies - to a point. I believe that when God sees that all the good people have no chance left of beating the evil of this land into submission that He will send his Dear Son back to take care of His people. I don't know how this will come to pass. I believe that teh Bible has been diluted by too many translations and I very STRONGLY believe that "Bible scholars" are no more intelligent than myself or the next guy, so....
I will NOT be one of the people who hides in the church pew waiting for the end of time to come crashing down on me.
I WILL be one of the people out in the field fighting for my and my future children's GOD-GIVEN-RIGHTS.

While I do not like the idea of looting, I also do not like the idea of killing other humans. But in times of war, when myself or my family are being threatened, I will do whatever it takes to protect and provide.

In a *simple* depression there will be riots, looting and folks trying to steal your stash within hours. But this time around there is so much more resting on the economy than just a depression.

I will post more later.

 

[mmaddox]

I have been told that should things go bad, 40% of the people inside 465 will not make it past 2 weeks. Probably why there are plans in place to blockade same.

 

[Annie Oakley]

We are with you Mikea. Have duplicate sources for water, garden for food, enough wood that is ready to cut in the acres we have that is already seasoned. Don't even need to go into the defensive capabilities.

 

[Lex Concord]

I have been told that should things go bad, 40% of the people inside 465 will not make it past 2 weeks. Probably why there are plans in place to blockade same.

To what plans do you refer? Source?

 

[Bruenor]

Here's a great resource for everyone.

Self Sufficiency Ebooks - all FREE to download

When you click on these links, once you sign up for an account (takes less than a minute and is free, no personal info needed), you can download some great PDFs. Some of the links have been removed, but most are still there. This site has everything from a two page article to a five hundred page book. I've downloaded 4 Foxfire books, and am trying to get the fifth, but it's giving me errors.

Enjoy!

 

[agentl074]

I think it would be more realistic to have some kind of "Jericho" type operation where a small community uses each of their skills to survive. We are blessed with good farm land here and good people

 

[mikea46996]

I think it would be more realistic to have some kind of "Jericho" type operation where a small community uses each of their skills to survive. We are blessed with good farm land here and good people

One word for you MAG..

 

[oldfb]

My daughters made me proud this week again. My bio daughter that comes home every weekend asked me how to convince her bio mama to let her start prepping a bit. I told her to talk to her stepfather about it so he could pry some of my daughters college money out of savings... She wants a container of wheat and rice for the whole family. lol
She was worrying because she would have to choose where to go if the shtf. I told her here first for supplies til they head to their bugout spot in MI. If they will hookup with us I can protect my girl as much as possible. Cannot believe their only plan is to bug out to MI. Like where is the food or fuel comin from.lol
My other daughters hit the store for more basic staples today. It really helped make things real for them. It was sweet hearing my daughters explaining Obama food to my eldests BFF. She will totally be part of our family when her family dies the first week of a crisis. Sad but true. I cannot help everyone but some people just have to come along. Her parents get basics for a few days then they are on their own if they can't pull their own load.
It was really a good day other than a few chuckleheads trying to get under my skin.

Thanks everyone for sharing their thoughts.

C

 

[88E30M50]

Easy. Eat the people. That solves a lot of problems.

Read Diamond's book titled "Collapse" and you'll see that almost every societal collapse ends up in cannibalism. It would be no different with ours as with the many that went before.