Lethality of the 22LR

[Joe Williams]

Had a friend in our squadron who got out and joined Anchorage PD. He was ambushed and killed by a man with a 10/22. Several rounds in the stomach. His vest was in the car... it was a hot day.

 

[gunbunnies]

Vest wouldn't have helped your friend any unless it had plates in it as the lowly 22 LR will clear a softbody vest without much problem... The 22 caliber slug isn't big enough for the vest to do it's job properly...

The 22LR is quite the survival round, and can do some surprising things in a pinch when used outside of it's design....

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Really good read. A lot of people think the .22 is for justing shooting paper, or small game. They do not realize it's a versatile round. I have now gotten my fourth .22 rifle, and am still figuring what I want to do with her. So lets see them .22 rifles

 

[Sailor]

I thought only .45 could kill you?

 

[agentl074]

Vest wouldn't have helped your friend any unless it had plates in it as the lowly 22 LR will clear a softbody vest without much problem... The 22 caliber slug isn't big enough for the vest to do it's job properly...

The 22LR is quite the survival round, and can do some surprising things in a pinch when used outside of it's design....

Actually there are vests which are NIJ tested for .22's—mine is:

Level 1 — meets and exceeds to Level IIA — remember though that ballistics vests must be stored properly in a cool, dry place to maintain functionality. That said, it may not stop a high velocity .22 from a rifle barrel because it exceeds the rated velocity....

[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1].22 LR HV[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Cartridge Type:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]40 grain Lead[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Velocity Range:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]1010 to 1090 ft/sec.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Number of Shots:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]5 shot(s)[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Shot Spacing:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]>2 in.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Velocity Measurement Distance:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]6.6 ft from muzzle[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Target Range:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]16.4 ft.[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[gunbunnies]

That's interesting... Maybe I'm wrong then but the Second Chance IIIA didn't stop the Remington and Winchester 22 LR HV rounds we shot it with from a 18 inch bbl 1022.

Now it did stop the 38 spcl, 357 mag, 9mm, 45ACP rounds we shot into it.

Interestingly we also tryed some 308, 223, 762 Russian and 2 12 guage slugs which the vest technically stopped the slugs, but if you were wearing the vest you wouldn't have anything to write home about...

The vest was resting on a large log and the slugs embedded the vest about 2 inches into the log which we had to cut them out with a knife...

Now the 22 LR didn't clear the 2 inch thick bullet proof glass blocks we shot though.... the 762 Russian didn't go through on the first round either, but the 223 FMJ did....

Maybe my experience with the 22LR and soft body armor was a fluke ???

 

[Crimson]

Good read. I have always thought the 22 had more power than it was given credit for. Glad someone did that test.

 

[VUPDblue]

.22s will penetrate both sides of a 69 camaro, RS camaro no less. they are not toys

I have my doubts about this statement. I have done extensive testing on vehicles, and I have not found that any .22lr, including the HV rounds, will penetrate reliably through one door, let alone both. That said, all my testing has been done on late-model sedans. Nothing earlier than about 1996.

Vest wouldn't have helped your friend any unless it had plates in it as the lowly 22 LR will clear a softbody vest without much problem... The 22 caliber slug isn't big enough for the vest to do it's job properly...

The 22LR is quite the survival round, and can do some surprising things in a pinch when used outside of it's design....

I have a literal pile of IIA and IIIA vests in my posession. I have yet to get any .22lr, including HV rounds, to penetrate. I've tried them in a 20" barrel all the way down to a 5" pistol barrel. Level I vests may be more succeptable to penetration by a .22 but I don't believe you could get through a IIA or higher.

 

[nighthawk80]

I have my doubts about this statement. I have done extensive testing on vehicles, and I have not found that any .22lr, including the HV rounds, will penetrate reliably through one door, let alone both. That said, all my testing has been done on late-model sedans. Nothing earlier than about 1996.

Jeepers, remind me not to drive over to your house.

 

[VUPDblue]

If you drive over in a Bradley you should be fine.....should be...

 

[Sinner Man]

This is good to know!! Everyone be warned as there are a lot of Turkeys on this site, myself included!

 

[Bisley Man]

How many think as I do that in a longer term SHTF (longer than Katrina, months?) that the 22lr, as well as 12ga will be used far more than we imagined?

 

[mwilson]

.22

I have my doubts about this statement. I have done extensive testing on vehicles, and I have not found that any .22lr, including the HV rounds, will penetrate reliably through one door, let alone both. That said, all my testing has been done on late-model sedans. Nothing earlier than about 1996.




I have a literal pile of IIA and IIIA vests in my posession. I have yet to get any .22lr, including HV rounds, to penetrate. I've tried them in a 20" barrel all the way down to a 5" pistol barrel. Level I vests may be more succeptable to penetration by a .22 but I don't believe you could get through a IIA or higher.

doors? do not know. quarters yes.

 

[Hoosier8]

OK, posted before, but I really like this little 22. Marlin Golden Mountie. I also like the fact that it breaks down and fits in my carryon case, of course I don't carry it on, but since I had to carry it through Chicago after I bought it and had to keep it in my hotel room that week, it worked out very well.

 

[Serial Crusher]

This thread reminded me of a JPFO email I got about someone being shot with a .22 super colibri from Aguila. At an estimated 100yds it penetrated 2 sweatshirts and part of a very stupid young man.

Gun Control = People Control

Aguila lists their super colibris as having a MV of 500fps, but they are not recommended for rifles, so there is no telling what their test barrel length is. The bullet weight is 20gr. I believe the MV out of a rifle would actually be much slower, as you are not advised to fire them from rifles due to the risk of barrel obstruction. Even with an outlandishly high ballistic coefficient there is no way that it could be doing more than 300fps at 100yds.

 

[agentl074]

That's interesting... Maybe I'm wrong then but the Second Chance IIIA didn't stop the Remington and Winchester 22 LR HV rounds we shot it with from a 18 inch bbl 1022.

Now it did stop the 38 spcl, 357 mag, 9mm, 45ACP rounds we shot into it.

Interestingly we also tried some 308, 223, 762 Russian and 2 12 gauge slugs which the vest technically stopped the slugs, but if you were wearing the vest you wouldn't have anything to write home about...

The vest was resting on a large log and the slugs embedded the vest about 2 inches into the log which we had to cut them out with a knife...

Now the 22 LR didn't clear the 2 inch thick bullet proof glass blocks we shot though.... the 762 Russian didn't go through on the first round either, but the 223 FMJ did....

Maybe my experience with the 22LR and soft body armor was a fluke ???

Well perhaps... perhaps not. I think velocity and range has a lot to do with it — more importantly, if the vest was in poor shape then that may explain it. Also, vests should be secured tight around a dummy torso for an accurate ballistic test.

 

[gunbunnies]

Well the vest we used was in used condition, and we didn't secure it to the log. It was just setting against it... We shot it with 2 different brands of 22 LR HV rounds at about 8 to 10 feet, and they did clear the front panel. We then shot the vest with the different pistol rounds which it did stop... and then the rifle and slugs. The rifle went right through, the slugs just pushed the vest material into a slug made cavity in the log... Don't know if the 22's were a fluke or not as I said earlier, but I thought it was interesting that they did penetrate.... Never have been able to get ahold of another vest too try the tests again...

My statement as too the 22 LR penetration shouldn't be taken as a vote for using the 22 LR for defensive purposes, as it is not a man stopper round in my belief. It is one heck of a survival round for keeping the pot full, dispatching vermin, and can be used for defense if all else fails to stop someone from hurting me/you... Just clearifying what I think of the little cartridge....

Anyone have some vests that they want to take out to the range and shoot up again, I would love to try it again and see what happens....

 

[fishgun]

Had a .380 AMT backup and my wife didn't like the recoil. so I sold it and got her a .22 Walther. Nice s/a handgun. Holds 10 rounds. She loves it. She says will this drop someone if they get in the house? I told her you got 10 rounds and 2 full clips. that ought to do the job.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

This is a little picture i whipped up a few years ago. All data is based on:
Walther P22 versus ballistic gelatin block

What I did is take that data for penetration, and cut it in HALF before I put it as an overlay on this picture of a human torso, in order to better approximate actual penetration in human tissues, which vary in density.

keep in mind that this was from the 3.5" pistol barrel of a Walther P-22