I'm new to the forums, so I thought I would start off by posting something that might be useful, or at least slightly interesting, to the 1911 community...
I've experienced what appears to be a somewhat common problem with my Les Baer Concept VII (Commander length) pistol. After spending some time and money on it, I believe I've finally worked out all the issues. I'm posting my story here so that (hopefully) I can spare someone from the grief I went through.
This isn't intended to be a "Baer Bashing" session or anything like that. The post is for informational purposes only!
The Problem:
The Concept VII is my second Les Baer pistol. My first was a full-size Permier II that I use as a "range gun". I was so pleased with the PII that I wanted something nearly identical to it in the Commander size for carry.
Needless to say, I was very disappointed to see malfuncitons in my Concept VII that I hadn't seen in my PII.
The problem was with case ejection. Not exactly a stove-pipe... but the ejected case would get stuck backwards in the ejection port. (See picture below. Yes, the gun is dirty in the picture, but the malfunction happened with a clean gun too. It's just that I happened to have a camera handy at that time.)
After sending a detailed description of the problem (with pictures) to Les Bear, I talked with Les himself. He told me that all of his guns "work perfectly" when they leave his shop and said it must be something to do with my ammo.
After more conversation he said I could send it back and they'd "take a look at it", but I'd have to pay the $150+ for round-trip shipping. There was no guarantee that they'd fix it (because they don't believe it was defective), and they'd probably charge me for any parts and labor.
Considering that it seemed the gun had a problem straight from the factory, I was a bit ticked off.
I'm an engineer with a lot of engineer friends. I also had the time and desire to try to figure it out myself. I ran over 2300 rounds through the pistol trying to diagnose it. I also did a lot of swapping out parts, trying to determine the root cause.
We worked out a design of experiments (DOE). It wasn't a full-factorial (which would have taken years to accomplish), but it did include:
Two barrel bushings
Three barrels
Six extractors (four of which were tuned for that specific pistol)
Three firing pin stops
Two ejectors
Four slide stops
With and without the guide rod
At least 5 recoil springs of various weights
2300 rounds of ammo
5 different bullet profiles
3 distinct muzzle energies
Dozens of magazines (Wilson 47D, Baer, Cobra, etc.)
Factory and reloaded ammo
Nothing helped. I also consulted with a trusted local gunsmith on two separate occasions.
The random nature of the failures was very unsettling. I would fire 80 rounds in a row through the thing before the first hiccup. Another time, it would fail within the first 8 (same ammo, same magazines). The pistol is extremely accurate, and fits my hand perfectly. But I couldn't trust it. And you've gotta be able to trust your carry piece!
The "Inexpensive" Fix:
After getting such a cold response from Les, I started looking for someone else to send it to. I ended up shipping it to the nice folks at Wilson Combat. Within 2 days, the head gunsmith personally called me and let me know what they found.
We talked about the advantages and disadvantages of having a barrel with a bushing on a 4.25" 1911. Apparently Wilson noticed reliability issues with that configuration, and that's why they only sell Commander-length 1911s with bushingless barrels. The bushingless barrels allow the slide to travel farther, and provide more positive ejection. Good to know. I realize that Wilson is in the business of making money, but at least they treated me like a valued customer.
I appreciate that.
After getting the pistol back from Wilson, I shot 2000 rounds without a single hiccup.
Here's what they did:
* Removed some material from the slide stop that was interfering with feeding.
* Removed several machining burrs from the channels in the side leftover from Baer's manufacturing.
* Installed an extended ejector.
The extended ejector was at the heart of their fix. If you've got a Concept VII / Commanche pistol from Baer with ejection problems, an extended ejector will probably fix the issue.
From my investigations, it seems that the main issue with the Concept VII is the length of travel on the slide. To see what I mean, remove the recoil spring and pull the slide back as far as it will go. Note how much of the disconnect is exposed. In a full size 1911, and most bushingless compact 1911s, the disconnect is fully visible. With the Concept VII, the slide doesn't travel back nearly as far. Yet the ejector is the same size as on a full size 1911. There's just not as much room/time for the ejector to "push" out the spent case on the Concept VII. In the picture below, the two 1911s on the left have much more slide travel than the commander-length 1911 on the right.
Les Baer makes some very fine pistols. As I mentioned before, I love my Premier II. It hasn't had a problem in over 20,000 rounds (except a broken extractor at 15,000 rounds). The PII is the reason why I decided to buy the Concept VII.
I'll still recommend a full size Les Baer, but I won't recommend Baer's shorter-slide pieces (Commanche, Stinger, etc.). And I do warn that if you catch Les on a bad day, you get less than optimal customer service. That's been my experience, and that's all I'm qualified to comment on.
Take a look at the attached picture. See how much further back the slide on the full size Premier II goes when at slide lock.
You can also see how much more the new extended ejector protrudes over the mag well on the Concept VII.
The "Expensive" Fix:
The extended ejector worked fine for a long time, but it always seemed like the extended ejector was more of a band-aid than a true fix of the fundamental problem. The slide simply doesn't have enough travel on the Commander-length Baers.
Baer seems to have used the same frame dimensions on all of his 1911s. So when you buy a Commander-length 1911, you're getting a full-size government frame that's had the dust cover shortened. However, the true "Commander spec" has different frame dimensions than the full-size frame. To completely fix the root cause of the issue, you need to have the frame machined to the Commander dimensions.
Alternatively, you could also have your slide machined so that it has more room to travel. That's what Detonics USA did so that they could use the same frame for their pistols. The modifications were in the slides. Bushingless slides don't seem to have this problem. (But that's another discussion.)
Eventually, I found a shop that's had experience fixing this exact problem. I contacted Jason Burton at Heirloom Precision to get to the root of the issue.
Jason re-machined the frame to the Commander spec, which allows the slide to travel as far as it should. Now the pistol works flawlessly with the standard-length ejector.
Here you can see the difference between a Government frame and a Commander frame. On the left is my Concept VII after Heriloom brought it into spec. On the left is a full size Premier II frame. Before Heirloom did the work, the frames were identical (except for the dust cover). You can clearly see the material that was removed.
Here are my lessons learned:
1) A commander-length slide (with a bushing barrel) shouldn't be installed on a full-size spec frame.
2) For any potential new 1911 purchase, I pull the slide back as far as it will go. If I can't see all of the disconnect, then I don't buy it. I'm not saying that if you can't see the disconnect, it will definitely have ejection problems. Rather, I've personally never had ejection problems with 1911s where I can see the entire disconnect. It's just my rule of thumb.
A lot of you may be thinking, "Why didn't he just cut his losses, sell the thing and move on?" Well, first of all, I don't like trading a defective gun. I'd hate to hand my problem off to some unsuspecting person. Yes, I realize that I put way too much money into making that gun run. But it would have been more expensive to leave it sitting in my safe and buying something else.
Now that it runs, I absolutely love it.
I've learned a lot from this experience. And now I know what to keep an eye out for if I'm ever in the market for a compact 1911.
The folks who prefer to run Glocks will probably see this post as justification for why Glocks are superior to 1911s. I'm glad they like their Glocks, but I still prefer the 1911 platform. (But that's another post...)
I've experienced what appears to be a somewhat common problem with my Les Baer Concept VII (Commander length) pistol. After spending some time and money on it, I believe I've finally worked out all the issues. I'm posting my story here so that (hopefully) I can spare someone from the grief I went through.
This isn't intended to be a "Baer Bashing" session or anything like that. The post is for informational purposes only!
The Problem:
The Concept VII is my second Les Baer pistol. My first was a full-size Permier II that I use as a "range gun". I was so pleased with the PII that I wanted something nearly identical to it in the Commander size for carry.
Needless to say, I was very disappointed to see malfuncitons in my Concept VII that I hadn't seen in my PII.
The problem was with case ejection. Not exactly a stove-pipe... but the ejected case would get stuck backwards in the ejection port. (See picture below. Yes, the gun is dirty in the picture, but the malfunction happened with a clean gun too. It's just that I happened to have a camera handy at that time.)
After sending a detailed description of the problem (with pictures) to Les Bear, I talked with Les himself. He told me that all of his guns "work perfectly" when they leave his shop and said it must be something to do with my ammo.
After more conversation he said I could send it back and they'd "take a look at it", but I'd have to pay the $150+ for round-trip shipping. There was no guarantee that they'd fix it (because they don't believe it was defective), and they'd probably charge me for any parts and labor.
Considering that it seemed the gun had a problem straight from the factory, I was a bit ticked off.
I'm an engineer with a lot of engineer friends. I also had the time and desire to try to figure it out myself. I ran over 2300 rounds through the pistol trying to diagnose it. I also did a lot of swapping out parts, trying to determine the root cause.
We worked out a design of experiments (DOE). It wasn't a full-factorial (which would have taken years to accomplish), but it did include:
Two barrel bushings
Three barrels
Six extractors (four of which were tuned for that specific pistol)
Three firing pin stops
Two ejectors
Four slide stops
With and without the guide rod
At least 5 recoil springs of various weights
2300 rounds of ammo
5 different bullet profiles
3 distinct muzzle energies
Dozens of magazines (Wilson 47D, Baer, Cobra, etc.)
Factory and reloaded ammo
Nothing helped. I also consulted with a trusted local gunsmith on two separate occasions.
The random nature of the failures was very unsettling. I would fire 80 rounds in a row through the thing before the first hiccup. Another time, it would fail within the first 8 (same ammo, same magazines). The pistol is extremely accurate, and fits my hand perfectly. But I couldn't trust it. And you've gotta be able to trust your carry piece!
The "Inexpensive" Fix:
After getting such a cold response from Les, I started looking for someone else to send it to. I ended up shipping it to the nice folks at Wilson Combat. Within 2 days, the head gunsmith personally called me and let me know what they found.
We talked about the advantages and disadvantages of having a barrel with a bushing on a 4.25" 1911. Apparently Wilson noticed reliability issues with that configuration, and that's why they only sell Commander-length 1911s with bushingless barrels. The bushingless barrels allow the slide to travel farther, and provide more positive ejection. Good to know. I realize that Wilson is in the business of making money, but at least they treated me like a valued customer.
I appreciate that.
After getting the pistol back from Wilson, I shot 2000 rounds without a single hiccup.
Here's what they did:
* Removed some material from the slide stop that was interfering with feeding.
* Removed several machining burrs from the channels in the side leftover from Baer's manufacturing.
* Installed an extended ejector.
The extended ejector was at the heart of their fix. If you've got a Concept VII / Commanche pistol from Baer with ejection problems, an extended ejector will probably fix the issue.
From my investigations, it seems that the main issue with the Concept VII is the length of travel on the slide. To see what I mean, remove the recoil spring and pull the slide back as far as it will go. Note how much of the disconnect is exposed. In a full size 1911, and most bushingless compact 1911s, the disconnect is fully visible. With the Concept VII, the slide doesn't travel back nearly as far. Yet the ejector is the same size as on a full size 1911. There's just not as much room/time for the ejector to "push" out the spent case on the Concept VII. In the picture below, the two 1911s on the left have much more slide travel than the commander-length 1911 on the right.
Les Baer makes some very fine pistols. As I mentioned before, I love my Premier II. It hasn't had a problem in over 20,000 rounds (except a broken extractor at 15,000 rounds). The PII is the reason why I decided to buy the Concept VII.
I'll still recommend a full size Les Baer, but I won't recommend Baer's shorter-slide pieces (Commanche, Stinger, etc.). And I do warn that if you catch Les on a bad day, you get less than optimal customer service. That's been my experience, and that's all I'm qualified to comment on.
Take a look at the attached picture. See how much further back the slide on the full size Premier II goes when at slide lock.
You can also see how much more the new extended ejector protrudes over the mag well on the Concept VII.
The "Expensive" Fix:
The extended ejector worked fine for a long time, but it always seemed like the extended ejector was more of a band-aid than a true fix of the fundamental problem. The slide simply doesn't have enough travel on the Commander-length Baers.
Baer seems to have used the same frame dimensions on all of his 1911s. So when you buy a Commander-length 1911, you're getting a full-size government frame that's had the dust cover shortened. However, the true "Commander spec" has different frame dimensions than the full-size frame. To completely fix the root cause of the issue, you need to have the frame machined to the Commander dimensions.
Alternatively, you could also have your slide machined so that it has more room to travel. That's what Detonics USA did so that they could use the same frame for their pistols. The modifications were in the slides. Bushingless slides don't seem to have this problem. (But that's another discussion.)
Eventually, I found a shop that's had experience fixing this exact problem. I contacted Jason Burton at Heirloom Precision to get to the root of the issue.
Jason re-machined the frame to the Commander spec, which allows the slide to travel as far as it should. Now the pistol works flawlessly with the standard-length ejector.
Here you can see the difference between a Government frame and a Commander frame. On the left is my Concept VII after Heriloom brought it into spec. On the left is a full size Premier II frame. Before Heirloom did the work, the frames were identical (except for the dust cover). You can clearly see the material that was removed.
Here are my lessons learned:
1) A commander-length slide (with a bushing barrel) shouldn't be installed on a full-size spec frame.
2) For any potential new 1911 purchase, I pull the slide back as far as it will go. If I can't see all of the disconnect, then I don't buy it. I'm not saying that if you can't see the disconnect, it will definitely have ejection problems. Rather, I've personally never had ejection problems with 1911s where I can see the entire disconnect. It's just my rule of thumb.
A lot of you may be thinking, "Why didn't he just cut his losses, sell the thing and move on?" Well, first of all, I don't like trading a defective gun. I'd hate to hand my problem off to some unsuspecting person. Yes, I realize that I put way too much money into making that gun run. But it would have been more expensive to leave it sitting in my safe and buying something else.
Now that it runs, I absolutely love it.
I've learned a lot from this experience. And now I know what to keep an eye out for if I'm ever in the market for a compact 1911.
The folks who prefer to run Glocks will probably see this post as justification for why Glocks are superior to 1911s. I'm glad they like their Glocks, but I still prefer the 1911 platform. (But that's another post...)
I have worked with dozens of guys who were incredible craftsmen who believed that any questioning/criticizing of a product that they produced was a personal attack. Very few of them go out on their own successfully because they cannot deal with customers. The ones who make it are usually as good as they think they are or they find a #2 guy with people skills to deal with you PITA customers 
