LEO shoot in face, leg, and butt by shoplifter over $20 pair of jeans

[jedi]

The Ayoob Files: Page 20
Shot from Ambush & Returning Fire.

American Handgunner July/August Digital Edition Ready To View
This occured on Jan 2008 in FL.

Summary:

• 2 LEOs arrest 1st shoplifter and spot 2nd theif leaving the area
• LEOs chase 2nd theif for 1/4 of a mile.
• At one point theif turns around and raises his arms (not armed) but then turns back and chase continues
• 1 LEO is a bit faster than the 2nd and gain on the thief
• LEO makes contact with theif's back
• Theif turns around and shoots LEO in the face
• LEO falls into dry retention pond thinking that theif "hit it real hard"
• Theif continues to fire on LEO while looking back to see 2nd LEO coming
• Injuried LEO now fires back (has been hit 7 hits by now) and his hit cause theif to also fall in the dry pond on top of LEO
• Struggle continues before LEO is able to put 3 mroe rounds into the head of theif

Thief used a .45 cal glock with FMJ
LEO used a .40 glock with JHP

LEO is still undergoing surgey for his wounds but is back on the force working. The surgey left is reconstructve surgery based on the article and his wounds still hurt (butt). LEO had a 1 year old kid when this occured.
---
I love my 1911 but everything I read one of these stories it just makes me think, "I really need to hurry up and save more $$$ to upgrade to a "plastic gun" with higher capacity in .45 or .40.

 

[Colt556]

Holy Cow!! Hope the guy makes it.

 

[jedi]

FYI... added time/loc to story to show this is 2 years old.

 

[public servant]

The guy goes from a simple shoplifter to an attempted murderer...to dead. You never know who or what you'll encounter...or what their reaction will be.

Treat everyone the same...as your potential executioner. And pray.

 

[garagegunmaker]

Wow. Good thing they finally got the BG. To bad a cop got shot before they got him.

 

[shooter521]

I first heard this story in one of Pat Rogers' classes; Det. Reston had been one of his students. Needless to say, Pat's account was much more graphic and colorful than Mas Ayoob's.

If that tale doesn't get you thinking about 1) how bad handgun calibers - even the .4X types - are as manstoppers, and 2) how important mindset is to prevailing in a fight, nothing will.

IIRC, Det. Reston is a regular participant on the Lightfighter forum, but I don't recall his screen name.

Here he is on video at the 2010 SHOT Show, describing the incident:
Law Officer and Safariland: Stories of Survival - Part 2

 

[groovatron]

The guy goes from a simple shoplifter to an attempted murderer...to dead. You never know who or what you'll encounter...or what their reaction will be.

Treat everyone the same...as your potential executioner. And pray.

This is so true. Just like the recent Pizza Hut shooting. Some crimminals will not hesitate to end your life........you should return the favor.

 

[Lanser]

I think we should all pay attention to some things here. (Lightly edited for spelling, grammar, and emphasis.)

• Thief turns around and shoots LEO in the face.
• LEO falls into dry retention pond, thinking that thief "hit it real hard."
• Thief continues to fire on LEO, while looking back to see 2nd LEO coming.
• Injured LEO now fires back (has been hit 7 times by now) and his hit causes thief to also fall in the dry pond on top of LEO.
• Struggle continues until LEO is able to put 3 more rounds into the head of thief.

Thief used a .45 cal Glock with FMJ
LEO used a .40 Glock with JHP

LEO is still undergoing surgery for his wounds but is back on the force working.
---
I love my 1911 but everything I read one of these stories it just makes me think, "I really need to hurry up and save more $$$ to upgrade to a 'plastic gun' with higher capacity in .45 or .40."

Lessons learned:

1. ROUND POWER: For handguns, these were fairly heavy hitters. Yet even when shot in the face, legs, and elsewhere, these people did not stop fighting! Handguns just don't have a lot of punch. It takes a lot of hits to the right places.

2. SHOT PLACEMENT: "In the face" is NOT the same as "into the front of the brain." And before you get smug and say, "Well, that's why I aim between the eyes"...

3. INACCURATE FIRE: While a single well-placed headshot ought to do it, how many of us, however good we are, can really, honestly, and reliably get off a good headshot in a situation like this? If you think you can do that reliably in a real life or death crisis, you need to put yourself under more pressure at the range. For those who believe strongly in their skills: while training yourself well is extremely helpful and valuable, in these situations many of your shots will still most likely be inaccurate. So you must compensate with more of them.

4 & 5. MANY SHOTS AND MANY HITS: These people were each hit several times with these relatively powerful handguns, and it finally took a trio of headshots to end the fight. An illustration: Say you're the running person and the cops are a pair of attackers. Do you think a 5-shot snubbie or an 8-shot 1911 are going to finish this fight? Only if you're "Chuck Norris" good, extremely lucky, or have some good guardian angels. And since you just never know, it's a good idea to get a high-cap gun and extra mags.

If your wardrobe prevents this, try combining a small, quick-access waistband/pocket gun with a more powerful, higher-cap pistol like a G26 or M&Pc in an ankle holster (with an extra mag or two on the other ankle, preferably) for when you need to call on more firepower. If you wear shorts all the time, well, you deserve to get mugged.

Good luck out there, everyone!

 

[jedi]

FYI the LEO in question had a vest on & that helped save his life from 3 of the hits that he got in the chest area. One would have gotten his heart base on the article.

 

[9lock]

How sad, for all parties, over $20 pair of jeans

 

[1032JBT]

An old yet still fine example of............You aren't dead until your body says you are dead, fight until you either can't fight anymore or the need to fight is gone.

 

[451_Detonics]

4 & 5. MANY SHOTS AND MANY HITS: These people were each hit several times with these relatively powerful handguns, and it finally took a trio of headshots to end the fight. An illustration: Say you're the running person and the cops are a pair of attackers. Do you think a 5-shot snubbie or an 8-shot 1911 are going to finish this fight? Only if you're "Chuck Norris" good, extremely lucky, or have some good guardian angels. And since you just never know, it's a good idea to get a high-cap gun and extra mags.

This incident is a major departure from the norm, the vast majority of gunfights don't require more than 2 rounds to finish. I do advocate carrying spare ammo or better yet a BUG but I don't think hi-cap guns are an absolute necessity..

 

[CountryBoy19]

I've been trying for the last 2 days to watch it but the video doesn't work for me. I can see the small framed box where it is supposed to pop up but there is nothing there...

 

[Lex Concord]

If you wear shorts all the time, well, you deserve to get mugged.

Good luck out there, everyone!

Hey!!!

I wear shorts all the time, and carry a full-size hi-cap plastibang in .4x with extra mags....motivation, creativity, experimentation

I guess being a big fella helps too

 

[IMPD31323]

Unfortunately this is why sometimes we as LEO's come off as rude or overbearing. You never know when things might go south in a hurry. We have to treat all unknowns as potential threats untill absolutely positive otherwise.

 

[groovatron]

Unfortunately this is why sometimes we as LEO's come off as rude or overbearing. You never know when things might go south in a hurry. We have to treat all unknowns as potential threats untill absolutely positive otherwise.

You can never be "absolutely positive otherwise".......

 

[SedahDrol]

I think we should all pay attention to some things here. (Lightly edited for spelling, grammar, and emphasis.)



Lessons learned:

1. ROUND POWER: For handguns, these were fairly heavy hitters. Yet even when shot in the face, legs, and elsewhere, these people did not stop fighting! Handguns just don't have a lot of punch. It takes a lot of hits to the right places.

2. SHOT PLACEMENT: "In the face" is NOT the same as "into the front of the brain." And before you get smug and say, "Well, that's why I aim between the eyes"...

3. INACCURATE FIRE: While a single well-placed headshot ought to do it, how many of us, however good we are, can really, honestly, and reliably get off a good headshot in a situation like this? If you think you can do that reliably in a real life or death crisis, you need to put yourself under more pressure at the range. For those who believe strongly in their skills: while training yourself well is extremely helpful and valuable, in these situations many of your shots will still most likely be inaccurate. So you must compensate with more of them.

4 & 5. MANY SHOTS AND MANY HITS: These people were each hit several times with these relatively powerful handguns, and it finally took a trio of headshots to end the fight. An illustration: Say you're the running person and the cops are a pair of attackers. Do you think a 5-shot snubbie or an 8-shot 1911 are going to finish this fight? Only if you're "Chuck Norris" good, extremely lucky, or have some good guardian angels. And since you just never know, it's a good idea to get a high-cap gun and extra mags.

If your wardrobe prevents this, try combining a small, quick-access waistband/pocket gun with a more powerful, higher-cap pistol like a G26 or M&Pc in an ankle holster (with an extra mag or two on the other ankle, preferably) for when you need to call on more firepower. If you wear shorts all the time, well, you deserve to get mugged.

Good luck out there, everyone!

You forgot type of round. FMJ's do not cause the amount of internal damage that JHP's do. In fact that's why JHP's are banned in war. Had the officer been shot by JHP's he probably would not have been as lucky. everyone of them FMJ's probably went straight through.

 

[jsharmon7]

Sorry to bump this old thread, but I wanted to add a few things after meeting Det. Reston today. Some of the important things he said that bear repeating:

- He said he didn't get a perfect sight picture, but he did state that he used the sights while firing on the suspect. I'd always heard that a lot of folks don't use the sights in a deadly encounter, so it was good to hear first-hand that this isn't always true.

- He said that he was working an off-duty job, but in uniform on the night this occurred. He said that he didn't think anything would happen so he wasn't carrying his normal duty weapon, but instead was carrying a "range gun" with basic sights on it. Train with what you'll carry and carry what you train with.

- He stated that he had a weapon light on the rail which he credited with helping him to fire the three contact shots to the head. He stated that the light sticks out far enough that when he pressed it into the suspects head it didn't push the slide back and take the gun out of battery.

- He stated that he had mentally prepared himself long before this incident for the possibility of getting shot and what he would do and how he would react. He also stated that his partner's mental preparation allowed him to clearly communicate on the radio rather than drawing a blank like some of the non-LEO witnesses did. If you're shot, you shoot someone, or witness a shooting, mentally prepare yourself for what you are going to do. Location, descriptions, victims, assailants, etc.

- He stressed the importance of having some sort of trauma kit with a tourniquet. He stated that a half a dozen officers got to him before the ambulance arrived and nobody had one. It may take an ambulance 10+ minutes to get to the victim, but a lot less time than that to bleed out. Also, ambulances don't come onto a scene until LEOs have it secure, so that may add time.

- He stated that his assailant appeared set on murdering him, he didn't just shoot and run off. He said that he saw the suspect shooting him and then firing off a shot or two as he was casually walking away. Reston said that when he started to get up to return fire the suspect saw him move and started bearing back down on him again. Fight until the fight is over, don't give up.

- He also said that the assailant wasn't reacting much to his shots at first even though he knew he was getting good hits in. It took several shots before he could see the suspect grimacing and turning his body away while continuing to fire. A one shot stop isn't too likely.

I wish I could remember some of the other great points he made, but it's been a long day. Sorry for the necro-post but he made some points that I hadn't thought of.

 

[shooter521]

Sorry for the necro-post but he made some points that I hadn't thought of.

A necro-post of a good thread, especially when you're following up and adding info/value, is nothing to apologize for.

In what context did you meet Det. Reston?

 

[jsharmon7]

A necro-post of a good thread, especially when you're following up and adding info/value, is nothing to apologize for.

In what context did you meet Det. Reston?

He was a speaker at an officer survival seminar. Chief Robert Paudert was there as a presenter as well. If anyone is familiar with the story of the two officers killed by the father/son sovereign citizens in West Memphis, Chief Paudert's son was one of the two killed. Hearing him describe coming on that scene, with his wife in the car on their way to vacation, was tough. The courage he has to travel the country telling the story, and reliving that event, is pretty inspiring.