Larry Vickers Training Scars - Reloading

[Fenway]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61Cnr78WUNg]YouTube - Larry Vickers Training Scars - Reloading[/ame]

 

[shooter521]

Tactical Impact is a pretty neat show; I've watched several episodes on-line, but don't get the right cable channel to watch it on TV.

Vickers is high on my list of folks I'd like to train with, but a trip to VA isn't in the cards anytime soon. I know he's done some stuff in Ohio in the past; that would be better.

 

[Joe Williams]

Amen!!! Preach it brother!! He's absolutely right. I've not shot IDPA yet, but this is one of my major concerns with doing so. Their insistence on retaining magazines is tactically unsound.

It's also the cause of fights between wife and me. She's so frigging obsessed with trying to find every piece of brass to reload that I've actually caught her trying to watch it fly. BAD BAD BAD!!

Wait'll she sees what happens next time she's supposed to be training, and turns her head looking for brass instead of reloading and re-engaging... hopefully 9mm going off right next to her will scare the snot out of her.

 

[mettle]

Quit complaining! lol. At least your wife goes to the range with you, shoots a weapon instead of desiring to remain ignorant and afraid of them and last but not least... doesn't give you a 'tactical eyeroll and -ignore-' when you say you want to go to the range.

Some are blessed, and don't know it.

 

[shooter521]

Some are blessed, and don't know it.

Others are blessed, and DO know it.

 

[slow1911s]

Amen!!! Preach it brother!! He's absolutely right. I've not shot IDPA yet, but this is one of my major concerns with doing so. Their insistence on retaining magazines is tactically unsound.

Larry is specifically talking about retaining empty magazines. There are times when retaining a magazine with one or more rounds is sound practice. IDPA does not require retention of empty magazines.

BTW - One of the scoring methods in IDPA is called Vickers Count. Vickers Count...Vickers...anyway

 

[Joe Williams]

Quit complaining! lol. At least your wife goes to the range with you, shoots a weapon instead of desiring to remain ignorant and afraid of them and last but not least... doesn't give you a 'tactical eyeroll and -ignore-' when you say you want to go to the range.

Some are blessed, and don't know it.

Oh, I know well how lucky I am. She's the best shooting buddy I've ever had.

But I've got nightmare's of her trying to fight off a rapist, and chase down brass at the same time LOL.

 

[ATF Consumer]

I've never seen brass fly to the left of a handgun like this before... And coming from a Glock?
My G27 shoots the brass out a good 10 feet away...always hitting whoever is to the right of me.

 

[shooter521]

I've never seen brass fly to the left of a handgun like this before... And coming from a Glock?

It's not flying to the left, it's flying back; the photo angle is a bit misleading. And that's a Kahr K9 she's shooting.

 

[Skoty]

Tactical Impact is a pretty neat show; I've watched several episodes on-line, but don't get the right cable channel to watch it on TV.

What channel is his show on?

EDIT: I found it, nevermind

 

[Shay]

Amen. Empty magazines go on the ground.

 

[Crimson]

Good video and advise.

 

[Tinman]

Amen. Empty magazines go on the ground.

I’m probably going to take some heat for this one, but, the problem I have with this, is blanket statements like this seldom cover all the possible situations.

Take for instance the Mil side of the house where they discovered an interesting phenomenon. During extended firefights, the ammo resupply doesn’t get dropped preloaded into mags. You had better have something to put them in. This has occurred a few times in the recent conflicts, but was most publicized in the Mogadishu fight made famous in the book Black Hawk Down. Read the real story, not just the Hollywood version, several Rangers reported that by the end of the fight, they were down to one or two mags and had to reload them to continue the fight.

One could make a case that the LE, and civilian side of the house don’t have a resupply, and therefore don’t have to worry about this issue. However, during the early days of the Katrina debacle, there was more than one firefight. I remember reading something by a well known instructor who sent his thoughts after the fact. He made comment, that with the limited availability of mags, you needed something to feed the guns. Fishing those mags out of 3 feet of feces infested water after you dropped it was just not an option.

So in short, there are some very real times when this may be a procedure of value. Where I see the real issue is with instructors who fail to properly teach when each technique is appropriate. As well as instructors who improperly prioritize the two techniques. How many times have we all taken a class where the instructor said “don’t let your guns run out?” How do you expect to train the reaction to the empty gun, if you never train that way in the comfort of the square range?

My opinion, and it’s just that, you should probably train 80% of your reloads as Spontaneous immediate action reloads. The other 20% should be a combination of any other reloads you may use, i.e. the tac load, the reload with retention of empty, whatever. That way you’re getting far more repetitions on what is probably the more important skill set. That of course would need to be tailored to your environment and mission. If you’re on the Mil side of the house, you might want to consider a few more reps with retention.

Of course none of that applies to empty brass from revolvers. That should always hit the ground.

Just my thoughts,

Tinman….

 

[Shay]

I’m probably going to take some heat for this one, but, the problem I have with this, is blanket statements like this seldom cover all the possible situations.

...snip...

Of course none of that applies to empty brass from revolvers. That should always hit the ground.

Good one.


Why is retaining revolver brass in your pocket a bad idea?

 

[Steve MI]

Again this fall's into what is your AO and whom you are and what your going there or here.


Use them all. but understand the why and when of it,

 

[Tinman]

Good one.


Why is retaining revolver brass in your pocket a bad idea?

Yea, I figured you'd gig me on that one Man I hate it when I contradict myself.