Land of the free?

[diverdown219]

Not sure if this has been posted yet.....

THIS HAPPENED ON TUESDAY 4/14/09.

THIS MAN IS A BAPTIST MINISTER.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUzd7G875Hc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUzd7G875Hc[/ame]


This is an update on this story.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu3WVkdZcNY&feature=channel"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu3WVkdZcNY&feature=channel[/ame]

Same guy.....previous Border Patrol check point.
It didn't go so well either.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFS7oZtE8Ks&feature=related[/ame]

 

[misconfig]

Freaking ridiculous, sign of the times my friends.

WAKE UP AMERICA - THIS IS THE RISE OF THE POLICE STATE.

 

[IndyGunworks]

.........................

 

[4sarge]

I'd like to know the outcome of this one and I will say that this guy has some big balls. In fairness to the officers, he was very antagonistic toward the officers (2nd video) but I didn't watch it all

 

[jeremy]

I would like to know the outcome of this one!

 

[Agent 007]

The 3rd video tells me all I need to know. I am unaware of any location, 100 miles from the border or not, where it is legal to resist law enforcement in the performance of their duties based on your own interpretation of the law. The place for redress against government agents who commit civil rights violations is in court, not at the side of the road. The Supreme Court has allowed several exceptions to the warrant requirement for searches and seizures in the past, so it would not surprise me if the brief detention at the roadside as in this case would ultimately be ruled constitutional. When the intrusion is minimal, the courts have sometimes sided with the government interest, depending on the issue at hand. I can see how one would agree with this guy's sentiments. I personally cannot agree with his tactics. From his videotaping of a previous incident, it's abundantly clear that he was on a mission.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm unsure how I feel about this. I've been through one of these checkpoints myself, while on vacation out west. I rolled down my window, declared "American citizen," and was on my way. I wondered just how effective these checkpoints are. If they are actually catching illegals at these checkpoints, there must be some DUMB smugglers out there.

This should be an interesting thread. I imagine that some of the posters on here who are rabidly anti-government AND rabidly anti illegal immigrant will get a migraine.

 

[jeremy]

Only about 1/2 way though the 3rd video. Wow this guy has guts. I think both sides of this one are a little argumentative so far.

As far as how well they work... How many illegal aliens do we have here inside the United States?

 

[4sarge]

Only about 1/2 way though the 3rd video. Wow this guy has guts. I think both sides of this one are a little argumentative so far.

As far as how well they work... How many illegal aliens do we have here inside the United States?

Estimates are 12 - 40 million if your not counting the Martians

 

[jeremy]

OK... The 3rd vid has me confused.
My $5 dollar question is the 3rd video even related to the first 2? Because at the end of the 3rd vid he is allowed to drive away.

 

[jeremy]

Estimates are 12 - 40 million if your not counting the Martians

So apparently this strategy is not really working huh...

 

[4sarge]

OK... The 3rd vid has me confused.
My $5 dollar question is the 3rd video even related to the first 2? Because at the end of the 3rd vid he is allowed to drive away.

Yes and No. I think that the 3rd video was an earlier occurrence where he continued on without a search. The first 2 videos are other occurrences that occurred after the 3rd. I'm sure someone got tired of him testing the system and their patience. I do not know the Border Laws and their power to search or legally detain. He definitely was on a mission

 

[4sarge]

So apparently this strategy is not really working huh...

Well, I dunno, its kept the number of illegal Martians quite low

 

[jeremy]

Unless the martians are in some kinda camo to hide their greenness...

 

[CulpeperMM]

these thugs should lose their jobs. no need for the grinding the face on the asphalt in the case of an incapacitated, unarmed, non-resisting citizen.

these searches are a blatant violation of the 4th amendment, and i commend the efforts of this minister to expose the practice of random domestic warrantless searches that have no probable cause.

Consent Makes the Law. this guy has the courage and fortitude not to consent to unconstitutional searches. i hope he is victorious. good on him.

 

[tv1217]

Yeah, we've been discussing this on a general discussion board I post on.

These are suspicionless checkpoints, when they pull you over, you don't have to answer questions or submit to a search because there's no probable cause.

OK... The 3rd vid has me confused.
My $5 dollar question is the 3rd video even related to the first 2? Because at the end of the 3rd vid he is allowed to drive away.

Same guy, different incident.

 

[Stainer]

I just watched that entire 27 minute video on the very bottom and I am disappointed in the LEOs. I would agree with them that he was acting suspicious, exercising his rights or not, he was acting weird. He would not provide them with ID, he refused to move his vehicle. I do give it to him though, he put up a hell of a verbal fight. The BP made some very ignorant points one of which was "your 4th amendment rights do not apply here." They basicall let this guy win. Do I feel he was covering up drugs or anthing illegal, no, however his personal dimeaner was not that of an average persons and he should have been searched. They threatened him with several charges and they let him go. DO NOT MAKE EMPTY THREATS! The officers were wrong, but he was doing nothing to make it better.

IMHO I think that those guys need to 1) lose some weight 2) be put along the boarder where they are needed.

What we need is a system to where when someone illegal is pulled over and arrested they are sent packing back to thier place of origin. However, a lot of illegals caught breaking the law in Indiana are not referred to Feds unless they are sentenced to over 365 days in prison. I am basing this on what I was told from one of m instructors who is currently serving as a judge here in Marion county. So how is our judicial system helping our problem???

 

[Paco Bedejo]

I just watched that entire 27 minute video on the very bottom and I am disappointed in the LEOs. I would agree with them that he was acting suspicious, exercising his rights or not, he was acting weird. He would not provide them with ID, he refused to move his vehicle. I do give it to him though, he put up a hell of a verbal fight.

The problem is that Border Patrol Officers are not LEOs. Just as the card said which one of the BPOs had the pastor read, they may only search if they have suspicion that someone has violated customs laws. If they were LEOs, they could have given him a citation instead of having to wait for the State LEOs to arrive.

It's impossible to have any genuine suspicion from the external view of a vehicle without Hispanics, Guns, or Drugs hanging out of or off of the car somewhere. The only reason these checkpoints might be effective is because of citizens who either do not know their rights or people who are scared into letting them search their vehicles without cause.

That said, I do support the men & women of Border Patrol & I thank them for their service. However, I completely disagree with the policies they're directed to practice. Most of the gentlemen in the 3rd video were very professional in my opinion, though I wonder how much that was influenced by the video camera.

 

[finity]

Unbelievable!

"Police State - Coming to a Country Near You"

I agree with everything the guy did in the last video except that he should have provided ID when asked. IMO that gave them cause (eventually) to detain him. Luckily they let him go.

I especially loathe the idea that the officer used to justify "suspicion" - He said that denying permission to search (IAW the 4A) was PC to perform a search without a warrant. If that's the case, in their mind, what is the purpose of the 4A?

Wasn't there just a SCOTUS case that clarified the rules on this?

This is also a good indication that if the S really does HTF we can pretty much not count on LE to support the citizens. Hopefully the military will be better but I don't hold out much hope. And before anyone accuses me of being anti-LE/military - nope, just saying that about LE/military in general. I know they're not all like that. I know I wasn't.

 

[Beau]

Unbelievable!

"Police State - Coming to a Country Near You"

I agree with everything the guy did in the last video except that he should have provided ID when asked. .

I do not agree that he should have provided ID. Either what they are doing should be legal, or it shouldn't. While we are fast becoming a papers please country we are not fully there yet. Those border checkpoints that do not reside on any border are not constitutional. Once you give in even a little you are at their mercy. Suppose he does hand over his ID. Now they can hold onto it until he cooperates to the extent that they want. Run his name, search his car etc..

these thugs should lose their jobs. no need for the grinding the face on the asphalt in the case of an incapacitated, unarmed, non-resisting citizen.

these searches are a blatant violation of the 4th amendment, and i commend the efforts of this minister to expose the practice of random domestic warrantless searches that have no probable cause.

Consent Makes the Law. this guy has the courage and fortitude not to consent to unconstitutional searches. i hope he is victorious. good on him.

+1

 

[jsgolfman]

IMHO, checkpoints are unconstitutional as there is no probable cause to stop the vehicle, period.
However, as someone mentioned above, I have been through them as well and it a simple "American Citizen" and you are on your way. Hell, I almost didn't even come to a complete stop before he waved me on and I was far closer to the border then this guy was.