Homeschoolers Growing Nationwide

[Dobber]

My wife and I have talked extensively about homeschooling our kids. We're still a few years off from that but public school is certainly no option. We're hoping to get our first boy into the local Catholic elementary at least to start but that's no guarantee and we're not even convinced that he'll have opportunity to achieve there either. The problem with homeschooling in my opinion is that:
1. Most areas have only the GED to represent a grade-school diploma. Higher end schools look for top tier graduation programs such as the Honors Diploma here in IN over the 'Core 40' or whatever nonsense they were peddling when I was in school.
2. Parents who are unfit to educate their children create adult idiots. My wife's cousin, for example, has homeschooled all eight of their kids. The eldest, now 16, tested last week at an 8th grade (13 year old) level. Oops.

Number 1 is an annoyance that can be overcome by scoring well on other standardized tests like the SAT or ACT. Number 2 is both a problem in that there is potential to decrease the collective intelligence of our society AND a solution in that it will reduce the baloon effect the middle class has seen over the past four decades and reset the socio-economic standards that foster hard work over entitlement. What am I blabbering on about, anyway?

-Dobber

 

[PistolBob]

My wife and I have talked extensively about homeschooling our kids. We're still a few years off from that but public school is certainly no option. We're hoping to get our first boy into the local Catholic elementary at least to start but that's no guarantee and we're not even convinced that he'll have opportunity to achieve there either. The problem with homeschooling in my opinion is that:
1. Most areas have only the GED to represent a grade-school diploma. Higher end schools look for top tier graduation programs such as the Honors Diploma here in IN over the 'Core 40' or whatever nonsense they were peddling when I was in school.
2. Parents who are unfit to educate their children create adult idiots. My wife's cousin, for example, has homeschooled all eight of their kids. The eldest, now 16, tested last week at an 8th grade (13 year old) level. Oops.

Number 1 is an annoyance that can be overcome by scoring well on other standardized tests like the SAT or ACT. Number 2 is both a problem in that there is potential to decrease the collective intelligence of our society AND a solution in that it will reduce the baloon effect the middle class has seen over the past four decades and reset the socio-economic standards that foster hard work over entitlement. What am I blabbering on about, anyway?

-Dobber

Regarding #2....in government run public schools many kids graduate high school without ever learning how to read.

Home school all the way.

 

[dshaf]

At least homeschooled kids are most likely not taught that sports is the most important part of there education!!!

 

[88GT]

1. Most areas have only the GED to represent a grade-school diploma. Higher end schools look for top tier graduation programs such as the Honors Diploma here in IN over the 'Core 40' or whatever nonsense they were peddling when I was in school.

Incorrect. Homeschools in Indiana are statutorily private schools and the diplomas issued by the school are as valid as any other school in the nation. It's been 20 years since I graduated high school, but my applications to college even back then placed a heavy emphasis on transcript content and non-academic endeavors. The distinction between the "Honors" diploma and the General Degree diploma in the government schools is generally rendered moot by the fact that the transcripts of most homeschoolers indicate their work would have qualified them for the Honors diploma. There are some institutions/organizations that are not aware of the legality of the homeschool-issued diploma, but they are usually set straight with a phone call/letter from a homeschool legal advocacy group.

2. Parents who are unfit to educate their children create adult idiots. My wife's cousin, for example, has homeschooled all eight of their kids. The eldest, now 16, tested last week at an 8th grade (13 year old) level. Oops.

Red herring. Practically your argument runs into the problem that is assume government schools don't have failure rates at all, or that they aren't as bad as homeschools. Government schools churn out far more failures per thousand than homeschools/private schools by a very large margin. Something like 92% of Detroit's eighth graders can't read at grade level. And Detroit is not an outlier in this. By and large, the parent who has made the choice to homeschool is one that is more involved in his children's education than any given parent of a student in the government school system. I would rather risk the occasional "failure" of a homeschool than the systemic disasters "graduating" from the government school.

On a philosophical level, what do you care if a parent churns out dumb kids?

On the "I think you go that backward" level, the dumbing down of society over the last 100 years (it's well past the four decade mark) is a direct result of the government education system, not of homeschooling parents who miss the mark every now and then. If you're concerned about the level of education and understanding of how the world really works, you would do well to support the abolition of the government education system and not gripe about the freedom of parents to make choices for their families that may or may not meet your standards.

 

[rw02kr43]

I would love to homeschool. but my wife and I both work full time jobs. Is it possible for us? She's a teen librarian and is very very smart. I'm not so much but I have 2 college degrees. I know that doesn't mean much anymore. Is it still possible for us to do this? Assuming we have any kids in the first place? Still working on that part.

Jason

 

[steveh_131]

I would love to homeschool. but my wife and I both work full time jobs. Is it possible for us? She's a teen librarian and is very very smart. I'm not so much but I have 2 college degrees. I know that doesn't mean much anymore. Is it still possible for us to do this? Assuming we have any kids in the first place? Still working on that part.

Jason

Anything is possible. It's really all about priorities. We had to decide what mattered more to us.

Raise our own kids and give up that second income?

Or avoid making the financial sacrifices and have unionized government employees raise them for us.

 

[88GT]

I would love to homeschool. but my wife and I both work full time jobs.

So?

Is it possible for us?

Yes. There are single parents of multiple children who still manage to successfully homeschool.

She's a teen librarian and is very very smart.

Her intelligence will not determine how well she teaches.

I'm not so much but I have 2 college degrees.

So do I, but neither one of them have done anything to make my role as educator easier or my results better. At best, the knowledge base I gained while earning those degrees will provide a stronger foundation for information/experience when we study those subjects. But I could go in completely ignorant and still do a great job of teaching my children. Likewise, I could be Mensa and be a horrible teacher.

Is it still possible for us to do this?

Absolutely. Homeschooling is a choice. All choices have consequences and opportunity costs. You have simply to weigh those opportunity costs with the consequences--good and bad--of homeschooling and make the choice for your family.

Assuming we have any kids in the first place? Still working on that part.

I can help with anything homeschool related, but you're on your own in this endeavor.

 

[level.eleven]

My wife and I have talked extensively about homeschooling our kids. We're still a few years off from that but public school is certainly no option. We're hoping to get our first boy into the local Catholic elementary at least to start but that's no guarantee and we're not even convinced that he'll have opportunity to achieve there either. The problem with homeschooling in my opinion is that:
1. Most areas have only the GED to represent a grade-school diploma. Higher end schools look for top tier graduation programs such as the Honors Diploma here in IN over the 'Core 40' or whatever nonsense they were peddling when I was in school.
2. Parents who are unfit to educate their children create adult idiots. My wife's cousin, for example, has homeschooled all eight of their kids. The eldest, now 16, tested last week at an 8th grade (13 year old) level. Oops.

Number 1 is an annoyance that can be overcome by scoring well on other standardized tests like the SAT or ACT. Number 2 is both a problem in that there is potential to decrease the collective intelligence of our society AND a solution in that it will reduce the baloon effect the middle class has seen over the past four decades and reset the socio-economic standards that foster hard work over entitlement. What am I blabbering on about, anyway?

-Dobber

It can be done. But, watch out for the extremists like the HSLDA and the Quiverfulls. Lots of fundie landmines to navigate in the movement.

Homeschool Regulations and Children?s Rights

 

[historian]

Having been homeschooled before it was cool I always tell people it is a case by case basis. There are some people I would NEVER want to homeschool, there are others who would be fine homeschooling. I had one family I know who did a horrid job at educating, their kids could find themselves out of a woods with only a compass and the stars, but couldn't pass a basic literacy test. As has been noted, the socialization aspect isn't a big deal. There are also other avenues that kids can talk with other kids such as church and 4-H. The biggest drawback (to me) was the lack of sports. I ended up bowling and golfing because I couldn't play any team sports (small town, no leagues outside of school). I agree with what 88GT has to say as well. If you have any questions you want to ask, feel free to PM me.

 

[KJW]

Home Schooling Rocks!
My wife home schooled our two children till junior year of high school and now both attend the Indiana Academy on Ball State's campus. Both of my kids scored above the 90 percentile on the SAT, my son was above the 98th percentile.

I don't have the specifics in my active memory, but I know there was a study done in Michigan that looked at a cohort of adults who had been home schooled and compared them to a cohort of traditionally educated adults. Among those who had been home schooled; none were unemployed, none were on public assistance, none had a criminal record beyond a traffic ticket. Again, I can't recall the precise percentages for the traditionally schooled adults, but it was something like 10% were unemployed, 30% were on public assistance, and 8% had criminal records. Imagine going to Congress and telling them you had a program that would cost the tax payers nothing, and would ensure full employment and near complete elimination of crime. It's home schooling!

This is just one of many studies that overwhelmingly shows the superiority of home schooling over traditional schooling (note, that includes private schools).
Other studies show that the superior academic performance of home schooled kids is NOT related to the educational level of the parents or socioeconomic status. Whereas with traditionally schooled kids, their academic performance IS related to the educational level of the parents and socioeconomic status.

When my two kids were younger, they would attend the Junior Ranger programs at all the National Parks we visited all over the US. I can't tell you how many times, after one of those programs the Ranger would come up to me and my wife and say something like, "Your kids must be home schooled." What was it that enabled all these different Rangers to recognize this fact? Well, maybe it was that my children sat attentively rather than fidget with their shoes strings. Maybe it was that when the Ranger asked a question of the children mine raised their hands rather than shouting out a clueless answer. Maybe it was that when the Ranger asked my kids a question, they knew the answer, and other kids would offer a medley of possibilities. And finally, maybe it was that after the program was over, my children went up to the Rangers to thank them for their time.

 

[88GT]

Having been homeschooled before it was cool I always tell people it is a case by case basis. There are some people I would NEVER want to homeschool, there are others who would be fine homeschooling. I had one family I know who did a horrid job at educating, their kids could find themselves out of a woods with only a compass and the stars, but couldn't pass a basic literacy test. As has been noted, the socialization aspect isn't a big deal. There are also other avenues that kids can talk with other kids such as church and 4-H. The biggest drawback (to me) was the lack of sports. I ended up bowling and golfing because I couldn't play any team sports (small town, no leagues outside of school). I agree with what 88GT has to say as well. If you have any questions you want to ask, feel free to PM me.

I believe Indiana now has several homeschool teams for all of the major sports (baseball, football, basketball, soccer). I think, though I don't know for sure that there's a track and field and/or cross country team as well. Mine aren't old enough or interested in those sports (it's martial arts in this household) to be interested so when I see them come across the IHEN email listserve, I don't pay a whole lot of attention. I know there are a lot of Upward teams sponsored by the local churches as well.

 

[historian]

I believe Indiana now has several homeschool teams for all of the major sports (baseball, football, basketball, soccer). I think, though I don't know for sure that there's a track and field and/or cross country team as well. Mine aren't old enough or interested in those sports (it's martial arts in this household) to be interested so when I see them come across the IHEN email listserve, I don't pay a whole lot of attention. I know there are a lot of Upward teams sponsored by the local churches as well.

Yeah, I grew up in a town of 2k, so while there was a basketball team, just going to practice would have been a 40 minute drive. If you live near a city, that is a big help.

 

[Jerchap2]

We have homeschooled all six of our children. It keeps them out of the government-funded "hate America" revisionist history propaganda mills, teaches them the history and values that we believe in, and makes them more informed and better citizens. Over the last three decades doing this, we have observed that homeschooled children are very social, more polite and respectful than those who are not, love God and their country with a passion, and are our best hope for perpetuating the traditions and values that made this Christian country great.

 

[Dobber]

Incorrect. Homeschools in Indiana are statutorily private schools and the diplomas issued by the school are as valid as any other school in the nation. It's been 20 years since I graduated high school, but my applications to college even back then placed a heavy emphasis on transcript content and non-academic endeavors. The distinction between the "Honors" diploma and the General Degree diploma in the government schools is generally rendered moot by the fact that the transcripts of most homeschoolers indicate their work would have qualified them for the Honors diploma. There are some institutions/organizations that are not aware of the legality of the homeschool-issued diploma, but they are usually set straight with a phone call/letter from a homeschool legal advocacy group.

I had no idea about community or group-issued diplomas amongst homeschoolers. My understanding was that the GED was the method of completion for these kids. Thanks for the education.

Red herring. Practically your argument runs into the problem that is assume government schools don't have failure rates at all, or that they aren't as bad as homeschools. Government schools churn out far more failures per thousand than homeschools/private schools by a very large margin. Something like 92% of Detroit's eighth graders can't read at grade level. And Detroit is not an outlier in this. By and large, the parent who has made the choice to homeschool is one that is more involved in his children's education than any given parent of a student in the government school system. I would rather risk the occasional "failure" of a homeschool than the systemic disasters "graduating" from the government school.

You're making generalizations based upon big city standards. The situation that I referenced involved eight children whose parents saw tax loopholes and deprived their children of an otherwise beneficial public education. You of course didn't have that info when you replied. They do not live in Detroit. They live in North Carolina in an "above average" public school district. Their kids are very good people. That may not have been the case had they been exposed to the social challenges of public schools. I'm not saying there is no trade-off, I'm saying there is an inherent dishonesty in depriving your children of their best interest in light of pursuing your own best interest. It is not always a best-case-scenario when you have ignorant (or selfish) parents educating their children because it is their right. Children should receive enough knowledge and education to know that they can do better for themselves should they wish. That is the American Dream.

On a philosophical level, what do you care if a parent churns out dumb kids?

On the "I think you go that backward" level, the dumbing down of society over the last 100 years (it's well past the four decade mark) is a direct result of the government education system, not of homeschooling parents who miss the mark every now and then. If you're concerned about the level of education and understanding of how the world really works, you would do well to support the abolition of the government education system and not gripe about the freedom of parents to make choices for their families that may or may not meet your standards.

Dumb/ignorant/stupid people exist. They're sometimes made by their parents and sometimes willfully become who they are. It is not my place to judge them or prevent them from achieving their destiny. I acknowledge that. I think you missed the mark on the rest of this quoted section. I am definitely not implying that people who homeschool their children are defiling education in our society. In fact I said in my original post that my wife and I have talked very seriously about it. My statements were, as outlined in my comments above, concerning the qualification of any parent to teach any child. I in fact do NOT support the abolition of government run education because abolition as defined would be utter, decisive, and immediate destruction of the system. I know without a doubt that most in our country (50% at last politicization) depend on the government in some way to survive. Those individuals are not likely to take on any financial burdens to afford their children the opportunity to learn who and what they could become...much less feed them. If nothing else schools nowadays are an absolute necessity of babysitting and soup kitchen such that the irresponsible, yet fertile, *******s in our country having children they can't afford don't bring down the whole shebang by way of mobs and mobs of street kids.

Now I have to congratulate you 88gt because you (un?)wittingly got me, the most conservative person I know, to say something remotely socialist. Well played!

-Dobber

 

[hoosierdaddy1976]

... The most important thing is to be involved with your kids and not just leaving it to someone else to make sure they are educated.

You hit the nail on the head with this statement. As a public school teacher, I have no doubt that the children of all who posted here would excel in public school for this very reason. However, I am also confident that with the obvious amount of time and effort that the people in this thread put into their children's education, you could get better results than I could having them in class. I feel that there is a bit of apples to oranges comparison in this debate. I won't go into detail about my opinions now (getting too sleepy), but I will revisit this later. Carry on, ladies and gents, and please realize that although there are definitely some issues in the public school system, not all teachers are intent on turning your kids into mindless drones.

 

[steveh_131]

Dumb/ignorant/stupid people exist. They're sometimes made by their parents and sometimes willfully become who they are. It is not my place to judge them or prevent them from achieving their destiny. I acknowledge that. I think you missed the mark on the rest of this quoted section. I am definitely not implying that people who homeschool their children are defiling education in our society. In fact I said in my original post that my wife and I have talked very seriously about it. My statements were, as outlined in my comments above, concerning the qualification of any parent to teach any child. I in fact do NOT support the abolition of government run education because abolition as defined would be utter, decisive, and immediate destruction of the system. I know without a doubt that most in our country (50% at last politicization) depend on the government in some way to survive. Those individuals are not likely to take on any financial burdens to afford their children the opportunity to learn who and what they could become...much less feed them. If nothing else schools nowadays are an absolute necessity of babysitting and soup kitchen such that the irresponsible, yet fertile, *******s in our country having children they can't afford don't bring down the whole shebang by way of mobs and mobs of street kids.

Now I have to congratulate you 88gt because you (un?)wittingly got me, the most conservative person I know, to say something remotely socialist. Well played!

If you think that government indoctrination camps are the only way to keep society from collapsing, then you're not very 'conservative'.

 

[Dobber]

If you think that government indoctrination camps are the only way to keep society from collapsing, then you're not very 'conservative'.

If you think that reactionist tin foil comments do anything for conservatism you're not very effective. I don't remember saying that public schools are the only way to do anything. I said to abolish public education would be an irresponsible thing to do.

-Dobber

 

[steveh_131]

If you think that reactionist tin foil comments do anything for conservatism you're not very effective. I don't remember saying that public schools are the only way to do anything. I said to abolish public education would be an irresponsible thing to do.

-Dobber

You were right when you said you were taking a socialist position.

 

[horsehaulin]

Most homeschoolers grow at a rate of 1 year per 365 days.

I have been contemplating homeschool. My kids would coup, eight of them may be able to over power us, lol!

 

[ATM]

The increasing social policy nonsense is also driving people away from the government's system of "education".

The Daily Caller presents: The first annual Elementary and Middle School Stupidity Awards