Heard something new today at the Gun Show

[Squirt239]

While I was walking through the gun show today, I overheard a conversation between a customer and a dealer. The jest of the conversation was this:

The dealer stated that if the customer was purchasing the firearm with intent to sell it, he was in violation and could get into "big trouble" with the law.

I'm pretty up on gun laws, and things of that nature; this one is a new one on me. Anyone want to comment on this topic?

 

[00BlasterResto]

I think you can purchase it with the intent to legally sell it in the future for a profit, I think you just cannot purchase it for another individual. Purchasing it for an individual I take as, if you already have the person waiting or the person gives you the money to purchase the firearm for them.
I don't think you are in any trouble if you see a good deal you could make money on in the future and purchase it as an investment of your own money.
I am wrong atleast as much as I am right though. Someone will be along to clear this up soon.

 

[Squirt239]

I'm clear on the straw sale laws. But if a person was purchasing it to resell it at their leisure, isn't that our right?

I think you can purchase it with the intent to legally sell it in the future for a profit, I think you just cannot purchase it for another individual. Purchasing it for an individual I take as, if you already have the person waiting or the person gives you the money to purchase the firearm for them.
I don't think you are in any trouble if you see a good deal you could make money on in the future and purchase it as an investment of your own money.
I am wrong atleast as much as I am right though.

 

[JoshuaW]

Straw purchase. If the customer was attempting to buy it so he could sell it to someone who could not otherwise purchase it, that would be an illegal sale. The dealer would be right to refuse the sale. In my opinion, the dealer should have also reported the customer, if he was certain that was what the customer's intentions were.

 

[00BlasterResto]

Straw purchase. If the customer was attempting to buy it so he could sell it to someone who could not otherwise purchase it, that would be an illegal sale. The dealer would be right to refuse the sale. In my opinion, the dealer should have also reported the customer, if he was certain that was what the customer's intentions were.

That's not what he said atall though, yes if he purchased it with the intent to sell it to someone who would not otherwise be able to purchase it that is one thing.
Someone who finds an awsome deal and sells it at somepoint in the future to a propper person for a profit would not be breaking any law. A dealer who misinterprets a customer like this and starts crying wolf would cause a headache though. I would say if you see a good deal and plan to sell it, just keep it to yourself.

 

[ATM]

...I'm pretty up on gun laws, and things of that nature; this one is a new one on me...

Not new, just incorrect.

Huge difference.

 

[Gabriel]

I would say if you see a good deal and plan to sell it, just keep it to yourself.

This.

 

[38special]

I was under the understanding that this dealer is correct.

I believe ATF says you cannot buy a gun with the intent to profit from its sale without an FFL.

 

[JoshuaW]

That's not what he said atall though, yes if he purchased it with the intent to sell it to someone who would not otherwise be able to purchase it that is one thing.
Someone who finds an awsome deal and sells it at somepoint in the future to a propper person for a profit would not be breaking any law. A dealer who misinterprets a customer like this and starts crying wolf would cause a headache though. I would say if you see a good deal and plan to sell it, just keep it to yourself.

I guess I misunderstood the OP.

I can understand why a dealer would be apprehensive to sell to someone who was going to resell it, even if that person was acting within the law. Like you said, probably best to just keep quiet if that is your intention.

 

[snowman]

Yes, the dealer is correct, you can not buy a gun with the intent to resell for a profit. You can do it if you have an FFL. The key word here is "intent". Lets say you buy a gun for yourself, take it home and shoot it or six months or so, your buddy sees it and wants to buy it. You need the money for that other gun you wanted so you sell it for current market price. You are OK, it was not your intent to buy and resell. I hope that makes sence...

 

[oneshotonekill]

Seems like a lot of gray area. If I purchase gun "A", don't shoot it and resell it for $25 profit, it's wrong. If I buy gun "B", shoot the crap out of it and resell it for $25 profit, that's ok? That doesn't make any sense. Why would it make a difference if I resold it that day or in a month?

 

[CampingJosh]

You can buy and sell at your leisure. You can even buy and sell for profit. You just can't do it commercially.

I have bought guns that I intended to get rid of before I even took them. Most recent example: a S&W Model 10. I knew someone who wanted one, and he was willing to trade something I wanted for it. I was able to buy the Model 10 very reasonably, and I was able to improve my collection for less money out of my pocket than I otherwise would have been able to do.

I was the actual purchaser, and I was making the purchase in order to improve my own collection. Even if "improving my collection" means getting rid of this thing I just bought through trade or sale, it's legal.

A straw purchase is a purchase for someone else. If you know don't even know who that "someone else" is before you make a purchase, it's pretty hard to make a case that it would be a straw purchase.

 

[JoshuaW]

Seems like a lot of gray area. If I purchase gun "A", don't shoot it and resell it for $25 profit, it's wrong. If I buy gun "B", shoot the crap out of it and resell it for $25 profit, that's ok? That doesn't make any sense. Why would it make a difference if I resold it that day or in a month?

You dont have to shoot it, you just cant buy it with the intention of selling it for profit. CampingJosh is pushing the line a bit, but I think his thought process is still legal.

You can buy something that you are on the edge about, decide you arent going to shoot it, then sell it. You cant buy something thinking "Im going to sell this and make $100!".

 

[DRob]

Good advice

While there seems to be some confusion on this issue there is certainly some sound advice. I'll paraphrase........If you intend to break the law, don't tell anybody!

 

[IndianaGTI]

What they said.

You cannot buy a gun with the intention of reselling it without an ffl.

A few years ago, the ATF used to contact people who regularly advertised guns for sale. The agent would ask for a common gun that the seller said did not have. The agent would then ask the seller if he could find him one. The agent would then arrest the seller after the seller found him one.

If you buy guns for the purpose of resale, you are required to have an ffl.

 

[ATM]

18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(C)

as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section
921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to
dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with
the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the
repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall
not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or
purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal
collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his
personal collection of firearms;

Highlights are mine.

This can't be construed to apply to any one item bought and sold for a profit.

I can legally (and with full intent) do so occasionally as a hobby.

That part is not confusing.

Where "occasionally" changes into "regular course of business" might be.

 

[Squirt239]

I knew I could get some good answers from the INGO family. Thanks!!!

 

[CountryBoy19]

I can legally (and with full intent) do so occasionally as a hobby.

Occasionally is the key here. You can do so a few times, but any time you do it enough to get on the ATF's radar you're going to be screwed. That is basically all it boils down to. You can do it. But if it becomes a noticeable buying/reselling thing, it's no longer "occasional".

 

[88GT]

Occasionally is the key here. You can do so a few times, but any time you do it enough to get on the ATF's radar you're going to be screwed. That is basically all it boils down to. You can do it. But if it becomes a noticeable buying/reselling thing, it's no longer "occasional".

Yeah, he covered that too.

Where "occasionally" changes into "regular course of business" might be.

 

[bothehunter]

u cant buy it for someone who cannot purchase it for themselves legally...ie they r a fellon or something like that not old enough, but u have the right to buy and sell in the future