hard cast bullets

[leftsock]

I just watched hickok45's video on hard cast vs. soft lead bullets, and while I don't do any reloading, I've only ever bought jacketed ammo, and the only time I ever cast bullets was casting .50 cal balls for a muzzleloader over a decade ago, sometimes I like to fantasize about getting into reloading.

Do reloaders make their own hard cast bullets by using ingots of a particular alloy, or perhaps by creating an alloy? Is there a formula for that?

When shooting hard cast bullets, would one still need to avoid using a polygonal rifled barrel in their firearm to prevent lead build up? Or are the properties of hard cast bullets sufficient to prevent significant build up between regular cleanings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2aQpVKiCN8

 

[mac45]

Alloys can range from pure lead, (very soft), to Linotype, (pretty darn hard), and yes, casters will mix different alloys to suit the task at hand. As he said in the video, Tin and Antimony are the most common elements used to alloy.
If you're at all curious about casting, wander over to Cast Boolits - Dedicated To The World Of Cast Bullets!
They're a good bunch of guys, and have forgotten more about casting than I ever knew. Another worthwhile link is Glen E. Fryxell, Cast bullets and firearm information and history
Lots of good stuff by Dr. Glen, including his book in pdf format.

As for shooting lead in polygonal rifling, I know that guys have done it, but not owing one myself, I won't speak to the wisdom, (or lack off), in doing it.

 

[Leo]

92% lead, 6% tin and 2% antimony used to be a popular alloy. I quit casting my own 15 years ago, I just do not have the facility to work on another project. Some guys develop a real art for casting and kind of make it another hobby. I was just kind of a duffer that played around with it.

 

[radar44]

This may be a dumb question , but where in the world can someone buy antimony?
Also... tin as in tin can ?

I've got pure lead.

 

[45-70]

I just watched hickok45's video on hard cast vs. soft lead bullets, and while I don't do any reloading, I've only ever bought jacketed ammo, and the only time I ever cast bullets was casting .50 cal balls for a muzzleloader over a decade ago, sometimes I like to fantasize about getting into reloading.

Do reloaders make their own hard cast bullets by using ingots of a particular alloy, or perhaps by creating an alloy? Is there a formula for that?

One of the more popular alloys casters use is called Lyman #2 which consists of 90-5-5 lead-tin-antimony. Air cooled BHN (Brinell Hardness Number) is 15. Different combinations of these ingredients can vary the hardness along with quench methods (air or water) and the boolits can be tempered in an oven for even more hardness.

When shooting hard cast bullets, would one still need to avoid using a polygonal rifled barrel in their firearm to prevent lead build up? Or are the properties of hard cast bullets sufficient to prevent significant build up between regular cleanings?

In my opinion, the biggest issue here is the fit of the boolit to the bore, what you don't want is to have hot gasses escaping (cutting) between the boolit and the bore causing leading. While on the subject don't forget the boolit lubricant which can play a significant part in leading problems. On the same topic we can discuss gas checks and velocities but instead of trying to explain the entire process here I would suggest you go to Cast Boolits - Dedicated To The World Of Cast Bullets! and start at the beginning as mac 45 suggested and start reading the stickies.

Good luck!

 

[45-70]

This may be a dumb question , but where in the world can someone buy antimony?
Also... tin as in tin can ?

I've got pure lead.

I have mixed pure lead 2 to 1 with wheel weights and water quenched for hand gun rounds under 1200 fps. Others recipes and mileage may vary.

 

[radar44]

So.. wheel weights have that stuff in them ?

thanks ...

 

[45-70]

So.. wheel weights have that stuff in them ?

thanks ...

Typically wheel weights contain about .5~1% percent tin, 2% antimony and the balance is lead. The tin is necessary for mould fill out and boolit toughness because it adds ductility to the alloy. Antimony adds hardness. Lots of casters including myself use straight wheel weights for most of their boolits.

 

[Skip]

Listen to 45-70 here. I drive straight wheel weights to 1800fps from a Marlin 1894 in 44Mag with NO leading. Nothing special about the alloy. And, since they also have arsenic in them, they can be water quenched and will harden to 30BHN which is SUPER hard for a lead bullet. Lynotype, which is considered super hard all by its lonesome is only 22BHN!

Fit is paramount though. A "soft" cast bullets can be driven harder if it is sized right. A "hard" bullet that is too small will lead like crazy if not pushed hard enough to obturate.

Getting the bullet to obturate is the most important thing. If it starts out at the right size for your firearm or a tad bigger, the other factors don't seem to affect leading as much.

 

[45-70]

And to Skip's point, obturation is like the cork in a bottle of wine, you don't want it to leak and as long as it's wet it swells it seals the bottle. Per the shooters definition it means the the process of a bullet made of soft material (in this case lead alloy) flaring under the pressure of firing to seal the bore and engage the barrel's rifling.

 

[Stimp]

I mainly use straight wheel weights with great success in all pistol rounds.. If you havce straight lead as someone mentioned and need to add the antimony you can add some Lawrence Brand Magnum Shot to the lead and that will break your hardness up.... Also water quenching works well.

 

[Slim400]

for the individual who is asking where to get casting alloy there is a company out of California called rotometals which will sell you any quantity you want a bullet alloy sum of its little pricey but it is exactly what you need and they are on the web

 

[Skip]

Just a caution....

I mainly use straight wheel weights with great success in all pistol rounds.. If you havce straight lead as someone mentioned and need to add the antimony you can add some Lawrence Brand Magnum Shot to the lead and that will break your hardness up.... Also water quenching works well.

I'm sure Stimp knows this but I want to clarify one point. Straight lead, or pure lead will not harden with water quenching. Wheel weights will, they have arsenic in them, but we all know that they aren't pure lead.

You can go to a scrap yard too and find some Linotype or Monotype and add that to your mix to make lead harder. If you have pure lead, you will need something to aid in fill out anyway, some use "lead free" solder as it is a great source for "tin", not the "can" type, this is called "block tin" and has a melting temperature much less than lead, which cans to not............

It aids in fill out as well. Nice sharp corners and all.

A normal bullet in Elmer Keith's day was 16 parts PURE LEAD to one part tin. In his mind, a hard bullet was 10:1! Today's wheel weights are much harder than that, most of the time.

What gets most folks into trouble when using cast bullets is they think that harder will cure all of their problems. Nothing can be further from the truth. Size is king, hardness is queen, proper lube is the prince and all the rest is angels dancing on the heads of pins.

FWIW

 

[Dirc]

Midway sells tin, if you can afford it.

 

[radar44]

I have been buying my reload bullets and collecting stuff for the" roll your own " when I get a little more comfortable with it.

The more I learn about it , the more I realize I've got a long way to go!