guy I know in trouble with ATF...

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    21   0   0
    Dec 24, 2008
    1,198
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    Way up North
    I think this is where this go's, I will try to make it to the point.
    Last night my neighbor calls me up and sais " did you see the FBI guys at my house?"
    I did not notice them, he told me to stop by and he would tell me about it.
    I have known the owner of the house since I was pretty young and it is a very good freind of mine, which moved aways, father.
    He sais 3 guys in a big black suburban came by flashing badges, I mentioned a few different agencies and he said it was the ATF.:n00b:
    He said that they were looking for a guy whome we have both known for 10+ years, who had stayed at my neighbors house for a short time a little bit back.
    He said that they were real nice guys with good senses of humor 'Jons a funny guy', But would not say anything other than that they were looking for SO&SO.
    Well out of all things to do, SO&SO knowing I am a gun owner calls me...:dunno:
    Sais this and asks what I think.
    In 99' when he was 17 he got a charge for a gun, I did happen to be there at the time and was suprised by the whole thing.
    The guy who now lives next to me, use to live in the county with 5 acres. His neighbor had a pistol and came over and offered the older guys to shoot it 'me and my freind are the younger guys' any way, the cops got called and SO&SO was shooting when they got there.
    Well the owner of the home did not own a gun and was not setup for shooting, they were shooting off of the porch without propper backstop and in the end SO&SO ended up with a felony out of the ordeal. Well after the completion of whatever he had to do, the charge was supposedly dropped to a misdemenor "criminal conversion" I think he said.
    anyway here he is 10+ years later and he purchased a single shot shotgun from someone he knows, the gun was legal.
    Well he got hard up and took said gun to the pawn shop, upon return they told him he would be unable to get the gun back.
    -- don't know if this matters but, he took an older guy (and legal gun owner with him) SO&SO was still low on money and had no real need for the firearm, so the older guy was planning to purchase the shotgun from SO&SO after they got it out. They would not let either one of them get the shotgun out of hock.
    I believe this would be a legal transaction when done by 2 legal participants, however he thought mabey it had to do with the fact he was going to sell it to the other guy. I told him that I thought that would be a legal transaction and that it was more likely that the old felony was causing trouble.
    Either way he is in hot water now, it is said to be "over the sale of a firearm"
    I told him that what he needed to do, was call an Attorney pronto!
    I told him he did not want to do it alone and that they were not looking for him to get his opinion.:rolleyes: That the best place to start would be proveing that he is not a felon and that he has had no firearm related charges in atleast 5 years.
    Of course an attorney is his best route but what dose INGO have to say on this?
    Sorry about grammar, I will fix it up later.
     

    shibumiseeker

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    50   0   0
    Nov 11, 2009
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    near Bedford on a whole lot of land.
    It's called a straw purchase and it is something the ATF takes extremely seriously.

    You can buy a gun from a dealer and turn around and sell it the next day if you want, but if you go in with the intent to buy it for someone who cannot then you have commited a felony.
     

    IndyMonkey

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    Pawn shop wouldnt sell it to them though, so no crime has been committed.

    I think theres something missing like you dont get a felony charge for shooting in your yard because of lack of backstop.

    I think he is a felon and thats why he couldnt get the gun back from the pawn shop.
     
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    21   0   0
    Dec 24, 2008
    1,198
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    Way up North
    Yes, but the way I thought it would be is that SO&SO already owned the gun, it was just in hock? Or is that not how it works.
    Mabey when you "pawn" a gun you are actually selling it to them and they sell it back?
    Like I said, he pawned the gun, he was not intending to buy one from the shop for someone else if that makes any difference.
    Either gentleman was willing to 'get it back' or buy the gun. Both guys were thought to be legal.
     

    IndyMonkey

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    When you pawn a gun you have to go through the paperwork to get it back just like buying a new one.

    But like I said somethings missing, gun is stolen that he pawned, or he was a felon in possession of the firearm and the pawn shop dimed him out.
     
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    21   0   0
    Dec 24, 2008
    1,198
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    Way up North
    Pawn shop wouldnt sell it to them though, so no crime has been committed.

    I think theres something missing like you dont get a felony charge for shooting in your yard because of lack of backstop.

    I think he is a felon and thats why he couldnt get the gun back from the pawn shop.
    I would not dought that he is, however him misleading the story would only hurt him.
    I was at the house when he got in trouble, I honestly gave my best account of it, but I am not sure of the actual sircumstances and did not ask in detail. He simply said he recieved a felony steming from that situation and that it was supposed to be dropped to an (A) Misd. why exactly he got it I cant say forsure, but I believe that, he believes that, that is the only thing legal wise that would cause the issue.
    I don't think that he would intentionaly hide any details from me, as I am not the sort to give a crap.
     
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    21   0   0
    Dec 24, 2008
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    When you pawn a gun you have to go through the paperwork to get it back just like buying a new one.

    But like I said somethings missing, gun is stolen that he pawned, or he was a felon in possession of the firearm and the pawn shop dimed him out.
    Pretty much what I came up with too. He assured me that the gun was legal, however I have no way of knowing if he thought wrong.
    I told him that the charge I believed they were going for was -Felon if Possession of a firearm.
    I will say that I would have never had anything to do with "him" and a firearm, he's a nice enouph guy but I could deffinatly imagine the gun being hot.
     

    Joe Williams

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    Jun 26, 2008
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    Yes, but the way I thought it would be is that SO&SO already owned the gun, it was just in hock? Or is that not how it works.
    Mabey when you "pawn" a gun you are actually selling it to them and they sell it back?
    Like I said, he pawned the gun, he was not intending to buy one from the shop for someone else if that makes any difference.
    Either gentleman was willing to 'get it back' or buy the gun. Both guys were thought to be legal.

    I did not think you could hock a gun in Indiana? Or is he elsewhere?
     
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    21   0   0
    Dec 24, 2008
    1,198
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    Way up North
    If by "hock" we both mean pawn, then yes, he is in Indiana and yes I believe that you can pawn guns in Indiana.
    Atleast they sell them and I would assume they get them from pawn.... I have never tried.
    I assume I know what shop it was also, only one shop left around here that go's through the rigamarow to be able to pawn/sell them.
     

    Joe Williams

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    You can pawn long guns but not handguns.

    Yup... I was just off reading the IC, and found that :)

    IC 35-47-4-2
    Loans secured by handguns
    Sec. 2. A person who makes a loan secured by a:
    (1) mortgage;
    (2) deposit; or
    (3) pledge;
    of a handgun commits a Class B misdemeanor.
    As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.
     
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    21   0   0
    Dec 24, 2008
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    One more thing I will ask.
    I am sure being a legal type guy I do not want to be talking to him to much, He called me from a number that showed up private on my phone and I just gave him my opinion that he needed to get an attorney.
    I don't have any distrust of him, he helped me out quite a bit when I was redoing my house and other that not wanting anything to do with the ATF I dont have an issue with him.
    I mentioned that I would ask around, if he calls me again should I pretty much ignore him till it is cleared up, so as not to be accused of trying to help a fugitive or what not.
    He would not come to my house and I honestly don't have any idea where they could find him other than next door where they have already been. Jon said he wouldn't talk to him if he called, I figured telling someone to get an attorney isn't really a big deal.
    Idealy he will just get back with me someday after it is all cleared up..:popcorn:
     

    techres

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    WOW. You have felony and potential straw purchase all in one story with a side of extra stupid. That is bad. And then the guy gets a visit from the ATF & calls you?

    Personally, I would do like this:

    :scared:

    Pray for him, but keep him at arm's length.
     

    IndyMonkey

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    One more thing I will ask.
    I am sure being a legal type guy I do not want to be talking to him to much, He called me from a number that showed up private on my phone and I just gave him my opinion that he needed to get an attorney.
    I don't have any distrust of him, he helped me out quite a bit when I was redoing my house and other that not wanting anything to do with the ATF I dont have an issue with him.
    I mentioned that I would ask around, if he calls me again should I pretty much ignore him till it is cleared up, so as not to be accused of trying to help a fugitive or what not.
    He would not come to my house and I honestly don't have any idea where they could find him other than next door where they have already been. Jon said he wouldn't talk to him if he called, I figured telling someone to get an attorney isn't really a big deal.
    Idealy he will just get back with me someday after it is all cleared up..:popcorn:

    Theres nothing that says you cant be friends with him. Just know that the boundary is different and that you have to be careful. Heck the most fun I ever had was partying with hookers and drug dealers in Vegas, doesnt mean Im going to invite them to go shooting.
     

    techres

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    Theres nothing that says you cant be friends with him. Just know that the boundary is different and that you have to be careful. Heck the most fun I ever had was partying with hookers and drug dealers in Vegas, doesnt mean Im going to invite them to go shooting.

    I wouldn't disagree. But at the same time, once someone is getting in trouble for gun mistakes and the BATF is involved, there is all sorts of "spread" possible in the situation.

    My primary concern is over the "stupid" part. If my buddy was not the best choice maker and I am getting drawn in, then I have to consider myself and others I am responsible for. Just because you are a childhood friend does not mean I am gonna risk my family, guns, whatever for you.

    Would I stand by a friend in trouble? Absolutely.
    Does someone who spirals into trouble deserve arms distance? Also, absolutely.

    OP: you did right to suggest a lawyer and fast. That's the best you could have done.
     

    Panama

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    I wouldn't disagree. But at the same time, once someone is getting in trouble for gun mistakes and the BATF is involved, there is all sorts of "spread" possible in the situation.

    My primary concern is over the "stupid" part. If my buddy was not the best choice maker and I am getting drawn in, then I have to consider myself and others I am responsible for. Just because you are a childhood friend does not mean I am gonna risk my family, guns, whatever for you.

    Would I stand by a friend in trouble? Absolutely.
    Does someone who spirals into trouble deserve arms distance? Also, absolutely.

    OP: you did right to suggest a lawyer and fast. That's the best you could have done.

    IndyMonkey Theres nothing that says you cant be friends with him. Just know that the boundary is different and that you have to be careful. Heck the most fun I ever had was partying with hookers and drug dealers in Vegas, doesnt mean Im going to invite them to go shooting.


    EXCELLENT ADVICE FROM BOTH!

    Always remember this too,
    "it is never what you know that gets your ass in trouble, it is always what you don't know"

    And to me, it sounds like there is more here that you don't know, than you do know, if you know, what I mean.


    PS, IndyMonkey next time your are going to Vegas..........CALL ME!
    Sounds like fun! :D
     
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