Guest Shot: My 9mm Journey by Dave Spaulding

[cedartop]

I have heard parts of this in Dave's classes but not the whole thing.

I recently read a posting on the internet that caused me to scratch my head. The author made an impassioned plea for the superiority of the .45 ACP cartridge over all others claiming, “ball .45 will stop a man 9 out of 10 times with a well-placed hit.” He based his assertion on testing that took place 100 years ago. It was quite clear the author was not stating fact but was trying to shape other’s thoughts based on his opinion. Alarmingly, less informed individuals were thanking this writer for his “timely information.” The sad thing is people were accepting his words as gospel for no other reason than they read them on the internet. Read the rest at,,,

Tactical Wire

 

[wcd]

I have heard parts of this in Dave's classes but not the whole thing.

I recently read a posting on the internet that caused me to scratch my head. The author made an impassioned plea for the superiority of the .45 ACP cartridge over all others claiming, “ball .45 will stop a man 9 out of 10 times with a well-placed hit.” He based his assertion on testing that took place 100 years ago. It was quite clear the author was not stating fact but was trying to shape other’s thoughts based on his opinion. Alarmingly, less informed individuals were thanking this writer for his “timely information.” The sad thing is people were accepting his words as gospel for no other reason than they read them on the internet. Read the rest at,,,

Tactical Wire

It’s the Internet…..unfortunately not everyone does any degree of research.

 

[ECS686]

It’s the Internet…..unfortunately not everyone does any degree of research.

Or they regurgitate what they have only read bringing ZERO experience to share at the table

 

[cedartop]

I remember the 147 grain OSM loads Dave talks about in the article. It seems to me Ayoob was pushing that load for a while but that was decades and a lot of magazine articles ago so I could be recalling incorrectly.

 

[ECS686]

I remember the 147 grain OSM loads Dave talks about in the article. It seems to me Ayoob was pushing that load for a while but that was decades and a lot of magazine articles ago so I could be recalling incorrectly.

I also remember Evan Marshal writing about that particular 147 as well. Seems like that was supposed to be the hotness in 1989

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

 

[Disposable Heart]

I remember the 147 grain OSM loads Dave talks about in the article. It seems to me Ayoob was pushing that load for a while but that was decades and a lot of magazine articles ago so I could be recalling incorrectly.

Too bad the FBI didn't use that during 1986... Too deep and not enough expansion is better than too much expansion and not enough deep...

Then again, bringing enough gun against known shooters would have helped too...

 

[Leo]

Get SOMETHING.
Train with it, learn to operate it efficiently. That will be your weapon.

Competency beats magazine articles.

I have spent decades with the 1911 and double action revolvers. I will probably not be changing much.

 

[flatlander]

I used his test yesterday with my new .45 Sig Fastback. Did it repeatedly out past 30". Guess I'm competent enough to carry it for EDC. It's actually a pretty good test and doesn't take a bunch of ammo.
BTW, the ancient 1911 platform ran flawlessly for 300 rounds so far. Will do another 200 next week just to make sure. It's all about where you put them and what you shoot the best.

 

[cedartop]

Too bad the FBI didn't use that during 1986... Too deep and not enough expansion is better than too much expansion and not enough deep...

Then again, bringing enough gun against known shooters would have helped too...

Not sure if you read the article, but that is exactly why the agency Dave was with moved away from that round. They used it in a shooting and it did not produce anywhere near sufficient penetration.

One thing I appreciate is Dave admitting he was wrong about things even though at the time it was a big embarrassment for him. There are a lot of us who continue down the same path because we have so much ego invested in whatever it is we aren't going to change. I see it here, well pretty much everyday.

 

[cedartop]

I used his test yesterday with my new .45 Sig Fastback. Did it repeatedly out past 30". Guess I'm competent enough to carry it for EDC. It's actually a pretty good test and doesn't take a bunch of ammo.
BTW, the ancient 1911 platform ran flawlessly for 300 rounds so far. Will do another 200 next week just to make sure. It's all about where you put them and what you shoot the best.

I am a big believer in people using whatever they carry and some kind of test like this, it doesn't have to be this one exactly, to at least get an understanding on how they interact with their chosen talisman in situations that may represent how they need to use it. Unfortunately the vast majority never do.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Not sure if you read the article, but that is exactly why the agency Dave was with moved away from that round. They used it in a shooting and it did not produce anywhere near sufficient penetration.

One thing I appreciate is Dave admitting he was wrong about things even though at the time it was a big embarrassment for him. There are a lot of us who continue down the same path because we have so much ego invested in whatever it is we aren't going to change. I see it here, well pretty much everyday.

Always be a student, never a master. Always be working, always be learning.

 

[Trapper Jim]

Keyboard Commando partaking in caliber wars over getting out and shooting and enjoying them all leaves a void in experience. German Nines are fun but won’t be giving up my All American . ..22RF, .22WMR, .22-250, .243, 270, 38, .41, .44, .45, and 45/70 anytime soon.

That is All….

 

[ECS686]

The good part today is we have more access to better FACTS on what has worked for agencies in real street shootings than in the past. And ammo companies have done their homework (look at the HST results in every caliber). While gel is a nice controlled test they don’t tell everything u til a number of actual real world uses happen. Like with Silvertips and even Fed 9BP they didn’t do well in gel and in one or two shootings but the rest of the shootings they worked as advertised.

We (several in the shooting community anyway) get way too wrapped up on that one or two case results. From bullet performance to the rush after the Greenwood mall shooting to try that whole Dickens drill in 15 seconds at 43 yards (before anyone even knew the real breakdown on shots)

 

[cedartop]

Keyboard Commando partaking in caliber wars over getting out and shooting and enjoying them all leaves a void in experience. German Nines are fun but won’t be giving up my All American . ..22RF, .22WMR, .22-250, .243, 270, 38, .41, .44, .45, and 45/70 anytime soon.

That is All….

 

[BigMoose]

 

[Brad69]

I have unfortunately have to accept the fact I can shoot a 9mm better than a .45 I am not young anymore.

I am a better shooter with my wife’s G45 than my DW.

 

[BigMoose]

I have decided to carry 50 action express, because it just doesn’t kill the body or kill the soul, but deletes the target from existence.

 

[Robert Richardson]

Unless you are a gun guy, the average person doesn't take the time to research ammunition. I'd wager that the majority of 9mm guns are being carried with 115gr FMJ ammunition. The same may also be true with 45acp guns loaded with 230gr FMJ ammunition.
The point is that there is no perfect handgun cartridge. I'm not even going to argue or push my opinion either way. I couldn't care less about what the experts say or use. The only factor that matters is the ability to put the bullet where it needs to go.
As far as the Greenwood Park Mall shooting goes, the young man had the confidence in himself and his equipment to engage the shooter, that's what really matters.

 

[BigMoose]

I guess this is one place you can score the 45 a distinct advantage with.

When you compare FMJ to FMJ, the 45 is much superior.
When you compare Hollow point to Hollow point, the 9MM catches up.