Greenwood mall shooting

[Basher]

I highly urge others reading to take a class such as Guy's or Mas' MAG40 if you labor under similar misconceptions.

I’m not gonna jump into the current furball of a discussion lol, but I do want to state that Mas’ MAG40 was the best $800 I ever spent. I took his first one back in Sierra Vista and it was phenomenal, I highly recommend it!

 

[Route 45]

Chip says you can do that.

Note the "holding a rifle in a shooting position" that Chip mentions. He is right.

You can't tell the difference between aggressive and non-aggressive actions with a long gun?

 

[actaeon277]

Are you not entertained

 

[Denny347]

This thread just goes to back up the notion that carrying doesn't automatically make you safer. If you have no working understanding of when you are legally allowed to use it, might as well just leave it at home. How many here know the answer to this question? "Under what authority do Indiana citizens have to self defense?" I would hope that most here would know the answer. If you don't, leave your firearm at home.

 

[actaeon277]

Section 32. The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.

 

[actaeon277]

The only way to avoid an overzealous DA, don't carry

 

[nonobaddog]

Note the "holding a rifle in a shooting position" that Chip mentions. He is right.

You can't tell the difference between aggressive and non-aggressive actions with a long gun?

I have not seen the video so I do not know how he was holding the rifle.
If Chip says he was holding it "in a shooting position" I guess I believe him if he says he saw that.

Yes, I can tell the difference between aggressive and non-aggressive actions with a long gun when I see them, but it is much more difficult when you can't see them.

 

[chipbennett]

I'd like to throw in one very possible situation.
Guy comes out of bathroom with AR-15 style rifle. You shoot and kill. Witnesses are now saying they never saw guy raise rifle or that he was only raising his rifle to defend himself against you firing at him. Eye witnesses are a funny thing, guy was just an idiot open carrying a rifle, peacefully, until you murdered him. With everything that I've in recent years, I would not be shocked to see it happen this way.

*Edited for some poor grammar.

Mere carry of a rifle, absent more, does not justify reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm. If you shot someone for merely carrying a rifle, you would be in the wrong, and your use of deadly force would not be justified as self-defense.

 

[chipbennett]

Yes, that and don't open carry in Indiana.

The firearm in question in this thread is a rifle. How else is one supposed to carry a rifle, other than openly?

 

[chipbennett]

Chip says you can do that.

Nowhere did I say that. Nice strawman you've got there.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

No, that does not seem reasonable to me but it has nothing to do with the situation we are talking about.

It also does not seem reasonable to try to generalize one situation into others like you keep trying to do. It doesn't work. A meth head threatening me with a knife is a completely different situation. I do not respond the same way to completely different situations. Do you always respond the same way to completely different situations?

So you can come up with some off the wall scenarios about it's a movie being shot, but there's no way the meth head is a 'gotcha' prank for youtube? And you complain about anyone else changing the scenario?

You're defending the indefensible and know it. I'm done with you, others have the info they need to sort it out.

 

[chipbennett]

Note the "holding a rifle in a shooting position" that Chip mentions. He is right.

You can't tell the difference between aggressive and non-aggressive actions with a long gun?

He conveniently ignored that in shooting position part.

 

[chipbennett]

I have not seen the video so I do not know how he was holding the rifle.
If Chip says he was holding it "in a shooting position" I guess I believe him if he says he saw that.

Yes, I can tell the difference between aggressive and non-aggressive actions with a long gun when I see them, but it is much more difficult when you can't see them.

Are we now talking about the actual shooting that took place, or your three hypothetical scenarios?

 

[nonobaddog]

Nowhere did I say that. Nice strawman you've got there.

OK, I'm confused, what were you saying here?

The law hinges on the reasonableness of one's actions - in the case of use of deadly force in self-defense, the reasonableness of one's fear of death or great bodily harm. Seeing someone emerge from a bathroom holding a rifle in shooting position absolutely meets the standard of reasonableness, whether one uses deadly force in self-defense before or after the suspected assailant starts shooting.

 

[chipbennett]

OK, I'm confused, what were you saying here?

I was responding to your hypothetical scenarios, in each of which, your hypothetical shooter held the rifle in a shooting position. In the actual shooting, the shooter was, you know, actually shooting. Which requires the rifle to be held in a shooting position.

In no instance did you introduce a real or hypothetical scenario in which someone was merely carrying a rifle, absent some other action.

 

[nonobaddog]

I was responding to your hypothetical scenarios, in each of which, your hypothetical shooter held the rifle in a shooting position. In the actual shooting, the shooter was, you know, actually shooting. Which requires the rifle to be held in a shooting position.

In no instance did you introduce a real or hypothetical scenario in which someone was merely carrying a rifle, absent some other action.

Where did you get that idea? It does not say that at all. That is a pretty big detail to be making up.

Eli is making the decision so we have to limit this to what information Eli had on which to base that decision.

He sees a person come out of a bathroom with what appears to be a rifle that looks like it could be an AR-15.
He sees this from over 40 yards away. From that distance he can't tell much more than it looks like an AR-15.
He can't tell if it is loaded. He can't even tell if it is a real gun. He can't read the guy's mind so he can't know what is going on.

Possibility 1 - A local arteestic type with very few brains is shooting a homemade movie using his phone. The guy coming out of the bathroom has a prop gun that looks like an AR-15. The arteestic type wants to film the realistic reactions of the crowd fleeing from the mean looking gun guy actor. You shoot and kill him and everyone says you were justified, even the county prosecutor. (yeah, right)

Possibility 2 - It is an AR-15. The person brought it to the mall to impress or threaten his girlfriend working at the waffle hut. There is no ammunition in the rifle or anywhere in the guy's possession. You shoot and kill him and everyone says you were justified, even the county prosecutor. (yeah, right)

Possibility 3 - It is an AR-15 and is loaded. The guy has already committed several crimes but he has not fired his gun and he has not shot anybody. You shoot and kill him and everyone says you were justified, even the county prosecutor. (yeah, right)

 

[nonobaddog]

So you can come up with some off the wall scenarios about it's a movie being shot, but there's no way the meth head is a 'gotcha' prank for youtube? And you complain about anyone else changing the scenario?

You're defending the indefensible and know it. I'm done with you, others have the info they need to sort it out.

The way the scenarios are meant to work. None of those scenarios change anything about the situational information presented to Eli. In every case the man comes out of the bathroom the same as in every other scenario. What changes is the explanation for the man's actions that Eli has no idea about.

Now to throw out some meth-head attacking me with a knife? WTF? That is a completely different situation like way out in left field somewhere.

 

[jaymark6655]

I'd like to throw in one very possible situation.
Guy comes out of bathroom with AR-15 style rifle. You shoot and kill. Witnesses are now saying they never saw guy raise rifle or that he was only raising his rifle to defend himself against you firing at him. Eye witnesses are a funny thing, guy was just an idiot open carrying a rifle, peacefully, until you murdered him. With everything that I've in recent years, I would not be shocked to see it happen this way.

*Edited for some poor grammar.

After seeing a couple responses, I need to clarify: rifle is in shooting position, guy is clearly a threat, but the blind unobservant masses either didn't notice or thought they saw the rifle come up after you fired, because that is how people perceive stuff. Similar to if a cars tires are making noise, it must be speeding. Personally I see a guy with two hands on a rifle that goes past low ready, I am probably firing if I am in a position to do so. Rule 2.

 

[nonobaddog]

The firearm in question in this thread is a rifle. How else is one supposed to carry a rifle, other than openly?

Good point. What I really meant to say is don't carry a rifle in Indiana - or probably anywhere for that matter.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Good point. What I really meant to say is don't carry a rifle in Indiana - or probably anywhere for that matter.

You're bored arent you? You literally sound like somebody who just wants to have an argument for the sake of having an argument. This isnt room 12a.