Goshen Police Encounter

[Hoosierbuck]

It's "curtilage." The officer was right about that. The rest of his schpiel, inlcuding not documenting the threats...not so right. Way to be cool about it.

HB

 

[fullmetaljesus]

Curtilage | Define Curtilage at Dictionary.com

There is a speaker icon to the right of the word. It will pronounce it for you correctly.

 

[Dead Duck]

I thought it was only John Wayne'ing if you say "Pilgrim" while OCing.






Welcome to the land of Goshen where the [STRIKE]Dictator[/STRIKE] Mayor rules with his mighty [STRIKE]Scepter[/STRIKE] Staff.

Goshen knows the laws all too well so more training won't work. Only a regime change will help.
You won this one because your still walking as a free man.

 

[eldirector]

I know that there are many uneducated officers out there, but I'm already paying tax money to fund their training departments. I think it's unreasonable that I should be asked to pay extra (even in the form of "donations") because they can't be bothered to know the laws they are charged with enforcing. (Yes, I understand that they can't know every law; that is not my argument.)

Fair enough.

So, what's the feedback loop? (Honest question, by the way. I really want to know) If the members of a department seem to be lacking training on a topic, how do we ensure that they receive it? It may not be "our job", but we are the ones adversely effected by the lack of training, and we are the ones paying for it. Sure, call their boss, but we also know how well THAT works.

 

[Scutter01]

Fair enough.

So, what's the feedback loop? (Honest question, by the way. I really want to know) If the members of a department seem to be lacking training on a topic, how do we ensure that they receive it? It may not be "our job", but we are the ones adversely effected by the lack of training, and we are the ones paying for it. Sure, call their boss, but we also know how well THAT works.

I don't know the answer, but as Dead Duck said, I don't think it's training. I think they know the carry laws perfectly well but that it's a willful and deliberate forwarding of a personal opinion presented as law. Or, as I like to call it, "Donnie Baker Syndrome".

 

[eldirector]

I don't know the answer, but as Dead Duck said, I don't think it's training. I think they know the carry laws perfectly well but that it's a willful and deliberate forwarding of a personal opinion presented as law. Or, as I like to call it, "Donnie Baker Syndrome".

Agreed. I actually wrote and then deleted the following list in a previous post, but since you broached the subject:

I think a few things are going on, and likely in some combination:

#1 - some folks are just simply uninformed. Routine training and information distribution can correct this.
#2 - some folks can't keep their opinions to themselves. Training can also address this (we do it where I work). Basically, if your job is X and you believe Y, keep your trap shut until you are off the clock. The department's official opinion is X (or in some cases, no opinion at all), and we expect you to support it.
#3 - Some (likely very few ) are actually malicious. They have a chip on their shoulder, and will abuse their authority to get their way. Training will not work, so they simply need to find another profession (willingly or otherwise).

Unfortunately, most of the normal "corrective" actions for the above (the things we as citizens choose to do) are reactive. We wait until something happens, post about it on the Internet, and MAYBE gripe to someone who can actually do something about it. This is simply ineffective.

So, I'm wondering what the PROACTIVE actions might be? I've kind of taking this stance in the last few years. If something bothers me, and I'm going to "complain" about it, I OWE it to myself (and others) to look for a solution. Otherwise I'm just *****ing, and that just ain't me. I'd rather get out in front of the issue, so it doesn't keep coming up.

Meh.... I'm on a soapbox again. Gotta stop that!

 

[TaunTaun]

Well, in part I was mostly venting. I look at is this way, there were several issues at play.

1. Someone threatened to throw someone down a flight of stairs.

By the officer's opinion, this was not intimidation. What he stated WAS intimidation is if they threatened you to not report it....

2. Officer had poor situational awareness. (gun was on hip, notice it the first time, not afterwards in subsequent conversations).

3. Officer giving personal opinions about OC/CC and suggesting that I CC if I carry at all..."To avoid getting tossed out of places, etc" If a business tosses me out of a place for carrying, i don't want to do business there anyway.


So what corrective actions should we be responding with? The OC/CC was more of a after the fact type of thing with a conversation afterwards as we were wrapping things up. I can see personal opinions coming out at that point of time about a subject. On the other hand, the officer did make comments about a parent not being able to tell a kid not to run around, scream, etc inside a house (neighbor's upstairs btw).

I'm seeing a lot of opinions pop up, but a bit of a reactionary stance on topics. The officer was expressing personal opinion but DID acknowledge what Indiana Law actually states. He even corrected my wife when she called it a CCW instead of a LTCH.

Dunno, just wondering...

 

[ATM]

At least the report is documented, even if no other action was taken.

Glad that he knew and acknowledged Indiana carry law.

I'm sure John Wayne would be amused.

For further personal debate on carry methods, you should invite him to join INGO.

 

[leftsock]

Depending on your age, you might have put the conversation to an end with a "who's John Wayne?"

 

[Scutter01]

Depending on your age, you might have put the conversation to an end with a "who's John Wayne?"

Or tell him he should stop "Barney Fife'ing it".

 

[Goodcat]

Or tell him he should stop "Barney Fife'ing it".

ZING

 

[repeter1977]

I always thought it was funny when people in the Army said to stop John Wayne'ing it. After all he did for the military with his movies, maybe we should pay some homage to him. After all, we do to Bob Hope as well. Just like being called a Hero is a bad thing, haha. Anyway, Im sure you already know the difference of OC vs CC, its only been beaten to death on many occasions. As pointed out earlier, you could have mentioned, well, gee, you carry open officer, so wouldnt that be the best way to carry as well? Sorry, just my 2 cents, and glad that you got the PD out there. There is actually plenty that they could have done, being an MP I do know a little about the law as well. Pretty sure Terroristic Threats would cover it. Granted its Federal law, but Im sure that there is a state law that would cover the same as well.
+1 to the Barney Fife'ing it, hahaha.

 

[CJK]

...The neighbors have the second floor with their own entrance which happens to be our back door access...

Officer: "Is there some reason you felt the need to go into the house and strap on your gun?"

Me: "No, I always have my gun on me" (I WANTED to say "No, I don't feel threatened, I have my gun on me.")

Officer: "You had your gun on you when we talked earlier?"

Me: "Yes sir, that's why I kept my hand away from my pockets and in sight. You should have seen it earlier, I normally carry it at 3 o'clock."

Did I miss something? You always carry and your neighbor still threatened your wife, is your neighbor blind or just stupid?

 

[DaveyCrink]

Where's your bullet, Barney?

 

[blamecharles]

Or tell him he should stop "Barney Fife'ing it".

I can't rep you right now or i would.

 

[youngda9]

I guess you won't be a target since others can't possibly match this officer's heightened state of situational awareness...nobody else will ever see your firearm.

 

[catielynnb]

Don't they already have internal departmental training that they should be paying attention to? I'd say bring it up to their trainers and let them do their jobs.

There's an iPhone app for that... what should they have to memorize for when they have their handydandy iPhones.

 

[Expat]

It doesn't seem they need more training as it seems the officer knew he was legal. That is a big improvement over some of the other stories we have heard in the past. This guy just wanted to express his opinion. I would point out that we have seen that same battle play out on here dozens of times.

 

[TaunTaun]

...The neighbors have the second floor with their own entrance which happens to be our back door access...

Officer: "Is there some reason you felt the need to go into the house and strap on your gun?"

Me: "No, I always have my gun on me" (I WANTED to say "No, I don't feel threatened, I have my gun on me.")

Officer: "You had your gun on you when we talked earlier?"

Me: "Yes sir, that's why I kept my hand away from my pockets and in sight. You should have seen it earlier, I normally carry it at 3 o'clock."

Did I miss something? You always carry and your neighbor still threatened your wife, is your neighbor blind or just stupid?

Clarification: I always OC around the house. The wife on the other hand, prefers CC (personal preference). The neighbors also don't start s**t when I am around. As to the neighbor, the answer there is "Yes"

 

[MikeDVB]

Wow, reminds me of my neighbors... Thankfully they don't live above us...