Goats, sheep, llamas, alpacas. School me

[HamsterStyle]

The boss and I are really wanting a dog. That said, with our current schedules, it would be very hard on us and a puppy to try and train it correctly and give it all the affection that it wants/needs. So, to fill the pet void, we have gone back and forth on chickens and goats. We have written chickens off for a while due to the amount of work they are for the time being.

Enter, goats. We talked to a few people this weekend and were very surprised to learn how low maintenance goats actually are. We would be looking at the smaller breeds. Nigerian Dwarf and Pygmy goats. This also got me wondering what kind of room and time is needed for other livestock such as sheep, alpacas, llamas (same as alpacas?), etc...

Number one priority is pet, second is utilization for milk or wool if possible. We will NOT be eating any pets.

Any experiences? Pros cons?

Thanks in advance.

 

[historian]

Not good for the alpaca market, but that means you may be able to get one cheap:

The Alpaca Bubble Has Finally Burst ? Consumerist

Personally, I like alpacas more than any other animal you listed. Sheep are more functional as they do have meat (not that you would be eating it, but if you expanded your operation).

 

[OutdoorDad]

Stay away from llamas.

 

[dusty88]

I once heard a podcast on goats with some good advice "You are ready to get a goat when you are ready to see it standing on your neighbor's car"

Small breeds can't get over fences as easily, but will still do extensive damage when they can. If you are in a rural area and confident about your fencing (including away from your own car, favorite trees, etc) it can work.

How much land do you have? all of those hooved animals leave pretty significant piles of poo. Unlike a dog, you probably can't train them to go in a specific area.

I honestly think chickens are less work than the other stock you mentioned, if you get the right setup. I help people do setups so they can utilize their land for chicken feed, have the chickens turn the compost, etc..... but you don't have to do that. Just get a good chicken tractor or a good fence and coop. Put in an electronic door on the coop. Chickens will put themselves to bed every night at sunset. If you let them free range, they may poo on your porch but their poo in the grass is soft enough to disappear quickly.

What goats are good at is eating brush/weeds etc if you have an area that needs to be cleared.

 

[Anonymous]

Stay away from llamas.

Why?

 

[mom45]

Llamas can get pretty aggressive. The males, in particular, can be mean. They are often used as guard animals with goats because they are protective of their flock.

Chickens are WAY LESS work than goats. I raised Alpines for many years (dairy goats) and finally got rid of my last two after my kids moved away. They need shelter, good fences to keep them in and to keep predators out and do require some amount of daily care...feed, hay, water, etc. Hooves need trimmed about every 6 to 8 weeks (diet can cause this to vary). Goats also do better in pairs or more...they do not do well as a single pet. They get lonely and need another for companionship. If you do not intend to breed, to NOT buy an intact male. Castrated males (wethers) or does make good pets...bucks do not.

 

[rkwhyte2]

Pygmy goats are escape artists and can/will wreak havoc. Also if you go with goats and they have horns make sure you install fencing that they can't stick their heads through. We had a herd of pygmies(18) and while they were interesting when the wife finally said I could get rid of them I called a friend who had expressed interest and they were gone within two days. I was happy because I could grow trees and a garden. Oh and I didn't have a crazy goat jumping on the roof of my car.

 

[mom45]

Oh yeah...disbudding is a kinder way to eliminate the horns but needs to be done before they are two weeks old. 5 to 7 days of age is ideal. Horns can be issues because they can injure you without intending to or they can get hung up in fences, hay feeders, etc. They will eat the bark off of trees and many landscape plants are toxic to them so you need to know what is in your yard and what they should not be allowed access to. Essentially...do your research before you get any critters so you know what you are getting yourself into.

 

[HamsterStyle]

There is a pen in the yard that previously housed a goat with zero problems. It is climb free fence with 4x4 posts every 8 feet or so. That part doesn't bother me. Feeding and if we decide to get a milker, then I am more worried about maintenance. I understand the debudding process, the hooves need trimmed, they should have a buddy, all that. It as a whole process actually seems pretty fun. And different. And a hell of a learning experience for the kids. Hopefully we can have them trained in no time to sing awesome covers of songs like they do on youtube.

 

[mom45]

There is a pen in the yard that previously housed a goat with zero problems. It is climb free fence with 4x4 posts every 8 feet or so. That part doesn't bother me. Feeding and if we decide to get a milker, then I am more worried about maintenance. I understand the debudding process, the hooves need trimmed, they should have a buddy, all that. It as a whole process actually seems pretty fun. And different. And a hell of a learning experience for the kids. Hopefully we can have them trained in no time to sing awesome covers of songs like they do on youtube.

It sounds like you have a good idea of what to expect. I used to get people who would come to buy a goat or two from me who were absolutely CLUELESS that they had to do more than just turn them out in a pasture and watch them. Goats are a lot of fun but can be work.

 

[HamsterStyle]

Yeah. We talked to a couple people this weekend that had some goats and mini horses at a kids event at home depot. They were really informative. We learned a lot. When I say less maintenance and takes less time I am comparing to a puppy. I think we have a little bit of an idea what's going on. Not 100% sure, but we're learning or at least trying to.

 

[Gary119]

Have you considered rabbits? My wife has several (50?) she breeds and shows them. Has shows throughout the state. If you have a hectic lifestyle you might not want the shows but they are there if you want. Just an idea.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I can't help you all the way around, but I do raise alpacas and my aunt raises goats. Overall, my alpacas seem to require significantly less maintenance than goats. They are very efficient to feed (for 12 adults I use roughly a bale of hay a day and a 50 pound bag of feed will last at least 3 weeks), and they crap in a pile and will always go to one or two piles. Generally, an acre will support as many as 7 alpacas, and you need at least two of them since they are social animals which do not adjust to being alone. They require a 3 sided structure adequate to protect them first and foremost from wind which is their biggest environmental problem. They deal well with rain, snow, and cold, but not wind. I recommend using a structure which can be cleaned by loader (which is in the plans for my impending move) given that sometimes their spot of choice will be inside the barn. The goats, by contrast, go wherever they happen to be standing when nature calls.

Worms are a problem issue. Barber pole worms are particularly dangerous to most ruminants, including alpacas and goats. So far, no problems with the alpacas, although they are vulnerable to them, but my aunt is having a terrible time with her goats right now. I am presently working on accumulating the equipment to do our own fecal testing (rather than paying about $20 per test) and I am researching herbal remedies given that the barber pole worms tend to get resistant to chemicals.

You might also keep in mind that alpacas and goats are both prey animals. If you don't get a large dog or a llama for coyote/dog control, I recommend baby monitors in tandem with the shotgun. This is the approach I am going to use given that it is starting to get too cold to sleep with the bedroom window open which so far has been my primary security device.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

My wife and I both want alpacas, but for different reasons. She has some crackpot idea of collecting wool or something; longhair cats make plenty of that. I just want to eat them; it's supposed to be good meat, but can run tough. I guess they're not so bad to have around, though.

 

[Bfish]

I've worked with all of them.. The general purposes were as follows.

Llamas were to protect other animals, they will put a beating on some predators, and I liked the llamas.

Alpacas were for fun and for the fur. I think they made some money on them but not too sure. I know that I sheered 300 of them, and one spit in a guys mouth and it's about the funniest thing I've ever seen. And their spit is terrible! They are also expensive, we had one male with a several hundred dollar insurance policy on, it's kinda crazy the money people wrap up in them.

The goats were goats, but to me the best value was when you needed an area cleared of which we had several fenced in. We would turn the goats loose and they would eat everything! It was great! They are low maintenance and I know some people who have milked their goats but I've never done anything like that at all...

Sheep, well I don't care much for sheep one way or another really.

I don't know that I'd get any as a pet... It's way too much work IMO for what you're getting except maybe a goat. I think another idea that'd be cool because they have a bit of a personality is maybe a donkey. They are cheap too. Not as low maintenance as a goat but middle of the road.

Bottom line is that if it were me I think I'd just wait and get a dog if you want a pet, or go without a pet! Getting one of the other animals will still be work it doesn't sound like you are ready for.... If you can't have a dog you really don't need one of these animals I don't think, but hey I'm just going off your short little blurp.

I do want to say though, if you have kids and want to get them involved in 4H and they are willing to jump in and share in responsibilities then all of these may not be too bad.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Goats CAN be a lot of work and they can be fairly low maintenance. But they have a talent for inadvertently causing as much damage as possible without intending to. As pets they are fun and cute and most have pretty easy going personalities. As said above though, the best reason to get goats is weed control. I stake mine out with a 5' section of chain attached to a short cable stretched between two metal stakes and move it around as necessary. In the summer they live out like that most of the time and only get moved every few days. In the winter they are only put out for the day and put in the fenced pasture with their house so they have a place to be in shelter at night. While they are easy to care for, they are surprisingly susceptible to a lot of parasites and if you don't know what to keep an eye out for they can act perfectly fine and then one day just get weak and then die within a couple of days.

 

[HamsterStyle]

I don't mind the work. I am just looking into what is involved. Not just jumping in blind. Thanks for all the input thus far.

 

[dusty88]

I don't mind the work. I am just looking into what is involved. Not just jumping in blind. Thanks for all the input thus far.

I think we're just confused about what to recommend because of your speculation that chickens were too much work. For those of us who have different types of animals, we find chickens the least hassle.

If you get some hens (rooster optional, can help with protection of the hens), you can collect eggs for years.

If you want to have a milk goat, you will have to keep getting her bred then figure out whether to keep or sell the offspring (not always easy to sell or even give away).

But if a goat is what you want, then it may be what you will enjoy the most.

Get several good parasite checks done before you bring it home. With only 1 or 2 goats, there is no reason you should have a parasite problem if you don't bring them in to start with.

 

[dusty88]

Worms are a problem issue. Barber pole worms are particularly dangerous to most ruminants, including alpacas and goats. So far, no problems with the alpacas, although they are vulnerable to them, but my aunt is having a terrible time with her goats right now. I am presently working on accumulating the equipment to do our own fecal testing (rather than paying about $20 per test) and I am researching herbal remedies given that the barber pole worms tend to get resistant to chemicals.

To do the most accurate fecal test, you should also get a good centrifuge and a hydrometer. We charge a lot more than that for a fecal at my office, but we identify parasites more than most practices do. Review technique for centrifugation/floatation with zinc sulfate. But the other issue is how you use your results. Parasites in food animal medicine are often just looked at as a treatment problem, when they are really best handled by management. Holistic rotational grazing can help control the problem. Also use your identification to figure out how and when to treat and who is breaking with parasites.

Unfortunately, any evidence of herbal remedies is pretty much anecdoctal.

 

[SEIndSAM]

If you haven't completely given up on "dog-like" creatures, Chihuahuas are an option. My wife has 2 that have been litterbox trained.

We have a couple of those "under bed shoe containers", plastic tubs about 14" x 24". Just put an inch or so of Cat Litter in there and they use it. You train them the same way you paper train a puppy, just use the litter boxes...

I travel for work often and the Wife likes to ride with me when she isn't working. We can be out 2 nights with this arrangement, just leave out a bunch of food & water and cleaned litter.