Fire power vs. Mobility

[SHEEPdOHdoubleG]

I was at work yesterday, talking to one of my range parters (and co-worker) about wanting to purchase a "pocket pistol" for a CCW. I had told him I was looking at multiple .380's including the Ruger LCP, SIG p238, and on and on...

Due to the fact that I have my permit to carry, coupled with my obligation to myself to try to carry no matter what the circumstance, I felt that a gun that size would not only be convenient, it is also necessary. He shot back with "Dude, you need to cut it out with this pocket pistol crap".

He, of course carries a 1911. However, although he would like to say he carries 75% of the time, it is more like 50%.

I feel that, with the purchase of a pocket pistol, I would have an option (ie) when running to the store in gym shorts and a t-shirt

This brings me to a few things I would like ya'll to think about:

What is the minimum sized round one should carry for self defense?
Do you dress to carry or would you prefer to carry according to your attire?
What is your primary CCW?
What caliber would you officially feel under armed?
Is it worth the extra fire power to feel uncomfortable and weighed down?
AND MAINLY, Who do you feel is right, my co-worker or me?

Your comments and opinions are apprecaited!

 

[mrjarrell]

Well, considering that a .380 started WW1, it seems sufficient to get the job done. Carry the round and size you're comfortable with. I usually carry .45 in the summer and .44 special in the winter and dress for carry. I could avoid all that and just OC, but I choose not to.

 

[eldirector]

What is the minimum sized round one should carry for self defense?
.22LR. Hey, would you want to get hit by a mag full of them (one at a time, of course)? Seriously, the difference in calibers above .22LR is not terribly significant. They all do a pretty good job.

Do you dress to carry or would you prefer to carry according to your attire?
Both. My default is open carry, which just requires a holster and good belt. I also have a nice CCW holster, which I need to dress around a bit. I am looking for a good pocket pistol to give me more flexibility, and to use as a BUG on occasion.

What is your primary CCW?
My normal carry is a XD40SC, either CC or OC.

What caliber would you officially feel under armed?
I've carried my P22. I "feel" better with my .40, but when it comes down to "small vs. disarmed", I'll pick small.

Is it worth the extra fire power to feel uncomfortable and weighed down?
No need to feel uncomfortable. Good belts and holsters go a long way (you already know that). Besides, folks carry .38 snubbies, and we don't consider them too small or under powered. Carry what makes YOU feel comfortable.

AND MAINLY, Who do you feel is right, my co-worker or me?
Well, you, of course!

 

[G_Stines]

This brings me to a few things I would like ya'll to think about:

What is the minimum sized round one should carry for self defense?
.22LR, it will kill just as effectively as anything bigger.
Do you dress to carry or would you prefer to carry according to your attire?
That depends, usually, my everyday attire is accomadating for OC, or CC depending on how I feel or where I am headed. I do have a Ruger LCP for my pocket in the event of wedding or some other event where a bulge may be more noticeable, particularly in dress clothes.
What is your primary CCW?
It's not always concealed but Sig 229 in .40
What caliber would you officially feel under armed?
.6mm airsoft
Is it worth the extra fire power to feel uncomfortable and weighed down?
However you feel comfortable is the best. I feel comfortable with anything from .22LR to .45LC. (Yes, I have carried a 45LC, twice. That was heavy!)

AND MAINLY, Who do you feel is right, my co-worker or me? You. For these reasons:
A.) You are planning on buying a new gun. Awesome.
B.) The reason for buying it is practical. Also awesome.
C.) You have put relative thought into your personal safety and want to improver it. Very Awesome.
D.) You are part of this community and presumably like bacon. SUPER AWESOME!

Your comments and opinions are apprecaited!

You are very welcome.

 

[EdC]

Is this going to be your first (and for the time being) only carry gun?

Personally, I don't think that you can go wrong with a P3AT or LCP, but I had the opportunity to put a Kel-Tec PF9 in my pocket the other day, and it was pretty sweet, and seemed smaller and lighter when compared to my primary carry, a Walther PPS in 9mm (which although small, would never work as a pocket gun for me).

I choose my attire first, then decide what to carry.

Nothing wrong with a .380, and I feel fine with it, but if your purpose allows you a little wiggle room, look at a PF9.

Just a suggestion.

 

[SHEEPdOHdoubleG]

Is this going to be your first (and for the time being) only carry gun?

Personally, I don't think that you can go wrong with a P3AT or LCP, but I had the opportunity to put a Kel-Tec PF9 in my pocket the other day, and it was pretty sweet, and seemed smaller and lighter when compared to my primary carry, a Walther PPS in 9mm (which although small, would never work as a pocket gun for me).

I choose my attire first, then decide what to carry.

Nothing wrong with a .380, and I feel fine with it, but if your purpose allows you a little wiggle room, look at a PF9.

Just a suggestion.

This is not my only carry gun. I also have a glock 26 (which is great for most situations) and a Springfield XD 45 Service model. I carry both depending on the circumstances, however, it is times like when I Come home from work, get cleaned up, put on gym shorts and t-shirt and head to store or gas station when I have been leaving my gun either at home or in the car. I think a pocket gun will help.

 

[lrahm]

I had a Walther PPKS 380. It was fine for close range, self defense and concealment. Would not want to get into a fight with it, let me explain. I carried it when I worked in narcotics 20 years ago. It was fine for what I needed it for but I had to shoot at a guy in a car once, he shot back. The round had very little penetration (really none, I hit the car and scratched the paint) also it only carried a limited ammount of rounds. I learned real quick to carry multiple mags. my guess that for any one the minimum I would now carry would be a 9 mm. Carry at least one extra mag. Find a good hollow point round. Self defense, I would carry a manufactured round, not a hand loaded. There are too many issues if something happened.

 

[Jubba]

Taurus 85 works great in a pocket.

 

[swissrifles1]

I carry 90% of the time my .25 Beretta. Possibility of 8 shots in the face or elsewhere makes for a bad day for the bad guy. I also didnt mind carrying the .380 Bersa. I have a .45 Sig but I save that for colder days. Get whats comfortable to you.

 

[7.62]

I personally like to carry my glock 19 most of the time. But I will carry my full size 1911from time to time too. And most of the time I carry a LCP, or LCR in 357 as a backup. There will be times that due to my business attire that I only carry the LCP in pocket holster or LCR on ankle. Do whats most comfortable. Dress and weather do play a part in my decision making due to CC over OC 95% of the time.

 

[kludge]

What is the minimum sized round one should carry for self defense?
For me, it's .38 SPL+P. Smallest I would recommend, .38 SPL... If you really push me I'll say .380, but if you can't conceal a subcompact 9mm your doing it wrong. If you really can't handle a .380, then a .22 WMR revolver.

.25ACP<.22LR<.32ACP<.22WMR<.380<.38 SPL<.38+P<9mm and from that point on it's a moot point.

Do you dress to carry or would you prefer to carry according to your attire?
T-shirt and shorts works for me. If anyone has ever "made" me, I'm not aware of it. Actually I have the hardest time with dress pants/shirt. Maybe it's my, uh, "body shape" that makes it difficult.

What is your primary CCW?
I split between a 4" XD-40 and a SP101. But I want a XD-40sc or XDm-40 3.8"

What caliber would you officially feel under armed?
.380ACP, or anything with less than 10 rounds on tap. (Yes, I feel underarmed with the SP101.)

Is it worth the extra fire power to feel uncomfortable and weighed down?
Totally worth it.

AND MAINLY, Who do you feel is right, my co-worker or me?
Me.

 

[Relatively Ninja]

Do you dress to carry or would you prefer to carry according to your attire?
I prefer to open carry, but when I do conceal my attire depends on where I'm going. If I'm at work (where I could be fired if someone finds out I'm carrying) I'm very careful to dress in a manor that will conceal my weapon. On the other hand if I'm just heading to the mall (where the consequences are much less severe) I'll just grab my CC holster and not bother to tuck my shirt in or anything.
What is your primary CCW?
Springfield XD-9, subcompact
What caliber would you officially feel under armed?
22LR. Plenty of people say it's still a lethal round, but I prefer something just a little bigger.
Is it worth the extra fire power to feel uncomfortable and weighed down?
I rarely feel uncomfortable or weighed down by my weapon. For running to the store in gym shorts I think a pocket gun would be just fine as a substitute for a larger weapon.
AND MAINLY, Who do you feel is right, my co-worker or me?
You, of course! "The gun you have with you is always better than the gun you've left at home."

I haven't taken a serious look at pocket guns (kinda broke right now), but I've always thought about carrying one in 9mm. My everyday carry gun is 9mm and I really like the idea of sharing calibers between my carry weapons.

 

[finity]

What is the minimum sized round one should carry for self defense?

9mm is preferable, .380 is OK, .22LR is the last resort in a pinch.

I don't get the people who say that anything above a .22LR is basically equal.

While I realize shot placement is the MOST important thing, there is a significant difference between a less than 1/4 inch hole & an almost 1/2 in hole given equal shot placement. That is completely ignoring the more significant wound channel from the higher velocities & hollow point expansion.

Do you dress to carry or would you prefer to carry according to your attire?

I (mostly) don't even think about what I wear since 90%+ of the time I'm in T-shirts & jean shorts or long pants with a regular leather belt. I just grab whichever gun I want to carry & go since all my IWB holsters are of the same design.

What is your primary CCW?

It has varied but I originally carried a XD40 service. Then I got a KELTEC P11 & carried that until I let my son use it which gave me an excuse to buy a Ruger SR9c which is the gun I carry almost all the time now. I go back to my XD occassionally since that is my favorite gun but it gets a little heavy compared to the SR9c.

What caliber would you officially feel under armed?

I personally wouldn't want to carry less than a 9mm/.38sp. My wife is a little recoil sensitive & she doesn't really like my 9mm or her GP100 .357 loaded with standard .38's. I have a Walther P22 that I think she would be OK with (a .22 is way better than NOTHING) but she hasn't made the decision to carry even though she has her LTCH.

Is it worth the extra fire power to feel uncomfortable and weighed down?

Yes...within limits.

You shouldn't feel the need to carry a Desert Eagle with 10 extra mags for the "extra fire power" but a mid sized caliber (9mm/.40) isn't THAT heavy compared to the extra power they give you.

Obviously, that's really up to you though.

AND MAINLY, Who do you feel is right, my co-worker or me?

Your comments and opinions are apprecaited!

I guess you're both "sort of" right.

You can find small sub-compact pistols (your point in ease of carry) in a decent self-defense caliber (his point with a sub-par caliber).

As was mentioned above. The PF9 is a good choice but I found it too skinny to shoot comfortably but I really liked my P11. 10 rounds of 9mm in a fairly small package & reliability/accuracy was pretty good. The only real issue I had was a screwed up extractor which all I had to do was call the company & tell them what I needed & they sent me the parts free of charge. They arrived in 2 days after I called. That's pretty good IMO.

 

[BDBHoover]

My primary carry is a Glock 30 subcompact 45ACP but I mostly wear slacks and it conceals really nicely...... but whenever it is time to dress up I grab the Keltec PF9 with a belt clip attached....... I keep it tucked right above where I keep my wallet (go ahead and tell me to give you my wallet)...... 9mm is the smallest caliber I carry..... even though it has quite a snap to it, it is dead accurate at 15-20 feet..... chances are I wouldn't have to take more than 2 shots to get the job done....... Anyway, as others have said before.... It is what you are comfortable with but also it is what you are comfortable with AFTER shooting it..... go to a shooting range that has rentals available and plink around until you find something YOUR comfortable with and what you would be comfortable carrying in that situation...... Good luck in your choice and carry safely.....

 

[gunowner930]

What is the minimum sized round one should carry for self defense?

Tough question. Here's a quote on the .380: "Some experts will say it's barely adequate, and others will say its barely inadequate." -Massad Ayoob

Shot placement is very important, but all rounds are not created equal. Just because you can sneak up on somebody and kill them with a single .25 ACP to the temple does not mean that the .25 ACP is the most effective DEFENSIVE carry round.

What is your primary CCW?

I carry a Glock 21 .45 ACP, I'll soon be switching to a Glock 17 9 mm for additional magazine capacity and lower recoil

What caliber would you officially feel under armed?

People can debate this all they want, but personally I wouldn't carry anything smaller than 9 mm.

Is it worth the extra fire power to feel uncomfortable and weighed down?
AND MAINLY, Who do you feel is right, my co-worker or me?

Is it worth the additional firepower to carry a full sized pistol and not comfortably carry a pocket pistol? I don't know, only you can answer that for yourself, your situation, and your needs. I don't think either of you is right or wrong, you just have different opinions. Pocket pistols are generally less accurate, have a lower magazine capacity, and are usually chambered for weaker cartridges than full sized pistols, but the trade-off is that they're lighter, easier to conceal, and are generally more comfortable to carry.

In my opinion, the 2 biggest reasons why I won't carry a pocket pistol are: they're less accurate beyond point blank range, and limited magazine capacity (I'm willing to deal with the inconvenience). Your comments and opinions are apprecaited!

Responses in red, good luck in making your choice.

 

[GIJEW]

My 1st pistol was a Colt mustang .380. I chose that because I wanted one I could ALWAYS carry (it's almost as small as some .25s). I've thought about trading it up to one of the new 9mm subcompacts.

My main carry pistol is a Colt officer's model .45, I always carry a couple of spare mags due to their limited capacity.

If the situation calls for more than that, the next item to get is body armor.

You're right, and your friend needs to realize that a .380 in the pocket beats a .45 at home in a safe.

 

[WillyUSMC]

I had a PF9 for a while, and although I did like it for what it was, I ended up selling it and bought a Diamondback 380 (aka mini Glock). I love the DB, way more than any of the other mouse guns I've shot, the only disadvatage to it being the lack of slide lock. I did see this as a disadvatnage, but for me it the positives outweighed the negative. I've heard great things about the new DB 9mm, and have thought about trying to bump up to it, but it'll have to wait for a good while. I think .380 is adequate for self defense, but obviously there are much better rounds available. I wear my DB with gym shorts, and no one can ever tell.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

T, however, it is times like when I Come home from work, get cleaned up, put on gym shorts and t-shirt and head to store or gas station when I have been leaving my gun either at home or in the car. I think a pocket gun will help.

Tell your buddy to quit being a snob and get a .380. You want it and you feel you need it.

Always carry.

 

[youngda9]

I have a Kahr PM9 that I actually feel under-gunned with. I think the 9mm is the min cartridge that I would want to carry. I feel under-gunned mainly because it is small, doesn't hold many rounds, and that I am not as proficient with it as with my larger guns.

I normally carry an M&P .40 compact IWB. 10+1 rounds of 180gr PDX makes me feel comfy. I have upgraded the sear, striker block, and sights to make the gun perfect for me.

I sometimes carry an SP101 5 shot .357 mag around the house OWB with 6 more rounds in the pocket in a speed strip. I do not feel under-gunned with this because I shoot it well and 125gr bullets at 1420fps about the best thing going for close up SD

 

[Pocketman]

First rule in a gun fight is "have a gun." No doubt .45 has more knock down power than .380. If the .45 is home in the safe, then it has zero knock down power.

My favorite carry guns are a Model 36 Chief's Special .38 and a Walther (Interarms) PPK/S .380. The PPK/S works for me because I no longer shoot at cars. In really warm weather (like today) I have a Colt Mustang Pocketlite .380 that conceals in almost any attire. Nothing wrong with a small .380 for personal defense, especially if it enables you to carry when a larger weapon would be problematic.