Employer outlaws all firearms on property

[Blue Tile Spook]

Bad idea. Dont give them any reason to suspect you own a firearm. All it will do is target you for a "random" vehicle inspection.

I can only speak for the companies that I have worked for in the past. They were honorable and upfront about any rule changes so for me to walk into H.R. to ask a question was not a large ordeal. It was also well known amongst the employees and most of management that I owned firearms even though none ever asked me if I was carrying on the property or had any firearms in my vehicle.

At my last job, we were not allowed, by the rule book, to carry any knives of any sort. Because I helped the maintenance guys a bit when I was on 2nd shift and ended up running the 3rd shift for a year, the rule was waived for me.

 

[Mr.Hoppes]

Since when do private property rights overrule or supercede the right to one's life and the right to protect that life?

Can a property owner legally forbid people from entering his open-to-the-public property with bibles?B

IN Canada, the bible is being portrayed as hateful. I will try to find the links again. On that basis yeah a property owner would be able to say Nope not on my property.


But then again there Users here on INGO , Even a moderator, that have already stated the rights of the property owners to make rules aren't laws so they will break them with out regard and will tell anyone they please. The only thing that makes this different is that the owner has a strong form of leverage.

Reference Link: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...e/17230-you_can_t_carry_at_the_shot_show.html

 

[Metro 40]

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[Mrs. Hoppes]

The corner store down the road from us has a policy that states that employees are not allowed to carry. The owner had to put it in there otherwise liability insurance would have been way to high.

He did say though that customers are allowed to carry and as for the employees, what he doesn't know won't hurt.

That being said, figure out what you need to do to keep yourself safe without risking your job or find a job where carrying is not an issue and can still support your family.

 

[gage]

insurance companies=?? policies

The corner store down the road from us has a policy that states that employees are not allowed to carry. The owner had to put it in there otherwise liability insurance would have been way to high.

He did say though that customers are allowed to carry and as for the employees, what he doesn't know won't hurt.

That being said, figure out what you need to do to keep yourself safe without risking your job or find a job where carrying is not an issue and can still support your family.

I think The INSURANCE Companies Need TO BE Corrected (note:The Shining reference) they are probably the source and instigating the same pressure on before mentioned situation.

 

[minuteman32]

Two things you can do (in addition to the above suggestions);
1) Instruct your wife (or whomever) to sue the company for failing to protect you & not allowing you to protect yourself due to their policy (not likely to succeed, though).
2) Stash away a little extra money to have "I respected my employers wishes to be defenseless and it cost me my life" engraved on your headstone.

Almost every job I've had prohibited guns. I carried on every job (unless it was a felony, & sometimes even then!). This has even cost me one job. I tell folks, I have one birth certificate, and will have one death certificate, but I've had a couple dozen jobs. Another job I can get, not another life.

But, to each their own.

 

[Doug]

Before I retired, I was in a similar situation; except it was a Federal Offense if I was caught with a gun.
I recommend one or more Lifeact Guardian Angel pepper shooters by Kimber. They look to be pretty effective with a pretty good range. It isn't a gun, but I now carry one everywhere I can't carry a gun (except the City/County building...You can't even carry an opinion there!). Last time I looked, Bradis had them for about $30.

Good Luck,
Doug

 

[cox7215]

i would keep it in the car, how are they going to know its in your car?...........R

 

[Jack Ryan]

I am interested in your opinions about what I should do to try to impact this policy. I will not jeopardize my job by violating the policy.

I would not say a word to any one or write any letters. It's a waste of time and only puts a big sign over your own head. The sign doesn't say "Smartest Guy Here, Ripe for Promotion" either.

Watch what the common procedure is goint to be with the "new policy" and leave your gun locked inside your car if you feel the risk to your safety warrants the risk to your job and KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT ABOUT IT. If you are in a job that scary that you feel you need a gun on you constantly to feel secure typing up TPS reports, you need a new job.

 

[Prometheus]

I think you should write letters, by hand, to your own State Representatives and those that Represent the area where you work, and ask them to support SB0011. Let them know that you and thousands of your gun brothers and sisters find it appalling that businesses are allowed to set policies that take away your rights to protect yourself.

Thats just what I think you should do. Or you can just park somewhere else and walk. Make sure your boss knows that you do this as a form of legal and ethical protest.

Don't like it, work/shop somewhere else.

Government has no place dictating to a business owner these sorts of things. Period.

You want to write letters? Write them about myriad of PUBLIC (government owned) places you cannot carry a firearm. Don't waste time time trying to violate someones property rights just because you don't want to work/shop somewhere else.

It's hypocritical, at best.

 

[techres]

Don't like it, work/shop somewhere else.

Government has no place dictating to a business owner these sorts of things. Period.

You want to write letters? Write them about myriad of PUBLIC (government owned) places you cannot carry a firearm. Don't waste time time trying to violate someones property rights just because you don't want to work/shop somewhere else.

It's hypocritical, at best.

• 
  
  * It is not necessarily hypocritical to start a fight in one place rather than another. If he supported something in one place and not another, then it would be hypocritical.
  
  * If the OP wants this thread hyjacked, then we can spiral this into the usual property rights of a property owner vs. the civil right of effective self defense of the individual debate which we have had before and will have again. The only question is wether we do that here and now, AGAIN.
  
  * If the OP want this thread to be about how he can sneak to break the rule we can do that too, but he has said no on that one, so if people want to do that we can always start a new thread.
  
  * If the OP wants us to talk about changing corporate policy, then my is that it will risk your job just like carry will. The only difference is that the letters will lead to a longer loss of your carreer than getting caught with a gun.

There are places I cannot carry under threat of arrest. I park my car across from my kids school, our synagogue, summer camp, etc. When asked, I do not go on a tirade about gun owner rights, instead I point to the place where my car is parked and say "Apparently my 4th Ammendment rights exist over there, they do not here. I like my rights and will not give them up to save 100 paces of exercise."

The reality is that you are in a bad place. It is easy for us to say that you are not at risk and being stupid. Or to say that you are not being a real gun owner and protecting father since you don't sneak a gun wherever you go. Or to say "Your choice is easy, do what I do."

The reality is that we all have to make these choices and they are not easy. I am lucky to not have the problem of carry and work. I can sit back an solve all the OP's tough questions and toss in philosophical battles at the same time from the safety of my situation.

At the same time, others have each made their choices. Some risky, some boring, some to make less money, some to not carry except 20% of their day at best.

Good luck with your fight. And if you choose to make it a fight, be ready for it!

 

[MACHINEGUN]

I'm with Robert.. just keep it in your car and stay hush hush about it.

 

[Indy317]

I work for a company that occupies most of a 5 story office building on the north side of Indy. The policy states a "zero tolerance" for anyone found to possess a weapon on company property, which includes the parking lot, parking garage AND in your personal vehicle when parked there. The building is secured with key cards at all entrances. There is a full time "security" person at a desk at the entrance--typically a low paid female and never armed. In other words, if a bad guy got in the building with a gun (which would not be hard at all-just follow someone in), they would have free rein to shoot things up for the half hour or so it would take for cops to show up.

I am interested in your opinions about what I should do to try to impact this policy. I will not jeopardize my job by violating the policy.

Why would you work for such a company?

 

[Indy317]

I think you should write letters, by hand, to your own State Representatives and those that Represent the area where you work, and ask them to support SB0011. Let them know that you and thousands of your gun brothers and sisters find it appalling that businesses are allowed to set policies that take away your rights to protect yourself.

Thats just what I think you should do. Or you can just park somewhere else and walk. Make sure your boss knows that you do this as a form of legal and ethical protest.

We do this, and we can kiss good-bye any jury nullification and stuff like that. If we become "me, myself, and I" socialists, we shouldn't be surprised when we wake up one day finding more of "our" rights eroded. If you want to bring a gun to work and your not allowed to by company policy, either do it anyway and don't get caught or quit. I guess this is just too much to ask of adults, instead, we gun owners want to go run and cry to big daddy government and are screaming "DO SOMETHING!!!" When you beg government to get involved in an issue, you cannot then go and throw a hissy fit when that same government turns around and does something you don't like. The last thing we want to do is have _more_ government involvement. Trust me, politicians _love_ this, as the more we beg them to do something, the more intrusive they get into our daily lives. We all think this will turn out good, it won't. Watch for business owners to lobby that the guns have to be unloaded with bullets in one area, gun in another (ie; Trunk and glove box). Watch for employers to now start searching when before they may have never done that, but now they feel they must even with liability coverage via the law.

Because of his company's policy on "No Guns, even in cars in parking lot", he has to travel all of those places unarmed.

The only person forcing your father to go unarmed is your father. Unless he is forced under threat of bodily harm and/or death to work at this place, why doesn't he just quit and find another job or start his own business? Why should others who took the risk at starting their own business, signing the loan docs, taking all the risks, now be forced to be told how to run their business by someone else?

I think the "Judged by 12, carried by 6" rule would apply if I were in your shoes..

Concealed is concealed, though. Shy of a metal detector, if I'm in CC mode you'll have no idea that I'm carrying.. period. I actually did a rock-climbing demo for some young men and women last weekend while I was carrying, and nobody had a clue.. My boss has no idea that I carry, only one of my coworkers has any idea and he doesn't know for sure..

Those I work with have no need to know what I do..

You mean you actually make an adult decision and take the risk instead of running to big daddy government begging them to get more involved in your life!! I am shocked!

Folks, this is what you should do, make an adult decision instead of running to your favorite hack politician begging for them to get involved in your life. You won't like what happens as too many politicans will want to side with private property rights. Your a big boy/girl, so get another job if this issue is that much of a concern. I know too many fools who will brag all over the building that they now have their gun in their car. Then they wonder why their windows are smashed and the gun is gone the following week. These same types will then want to sue the property owners for not providing adquate security in the parking lot because they knew all these break-ins happen and therefore should have provided off-duty security.

Trust me, your going to get the law you don't want: The gun will be required to be stored unloaded, with gun away from bullets. Employeers will take this to do more searching. Zero tolerance polices will go crazy, especially if the person is known or brags about now being able to have a gun in their car. You will see folks fired for even screaming, threat or not threat, the appearance of hosility will get folks fired (no, you can't sue for getting fired for screaming). The morons who want follow the unloaded and disasembled rule will get caught and fired, then run to their favorite big government politician crying about how awful it is. Same big gov. politician will now blow you off, thinking "this guy must be really stupid, he shouldn't even have a gun. He can't even follow a simple rule to have the gun unloaded." They will label you a gun crazy and blow you off. Gun owners begging for government to get involved...who would have ever thought?

Folks, unless you have daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly vehicle searches are your employeer, don't worry about it. Don't go around and brag "I keep a gun in my car!" to your co-workers. Just make an _adult_ decision and either quit working there or carry and take the consequences like a grown man/woman and take whatever punishment comes your way.

Oh, one thing that might be interesting would be to write to your company and inform them that since they've chosen to deprive you of your right to protect yourself on the way to and from work, not to mention while at work, the company has voluntarily assumed the burden for protecting you, and your family plans to sue the company into the ground if you are a crime victim from the time you leave the door in the morning until the time you walk back in it.

Course, that might get you fired, too, but it would be interesting to see the looks on their faces

Yea, that would get a person fired if I were the boss. Not because I fear they were bringing a gun to work, but because of stupidity. It is like the fool that sees cars driving over a 6-lane interstate and goes ahead and decides to play frogger and cross the interstate. Then he (if living) or his relatives sue the state because "the state failed to provide protection..blah blah blah." If my employee said this to me, I would type out a counter-waiver saying they have been made aware of the policies, take them as they are, and that they understand that I will not be liable for anything that happens to them. That they are not under contract and may quit at any time.

Since when do private property rights overrule or supercede the right to one's life and the right to protect that life?

When it occurs on _private_ property. If I am homeless and the temp is going to be -12, does this mean I have the right to come into _your_ private home or apartment and stay for weeks/days at a time? Using your logic, I do have that right, as I am escaping dangerous temps. that could affect my life. This is no different. You don't like the policy, get another job. How hard is that? Begging government to force others to view just those rights you want them to recognize is "me, myself, and I" socialism. It is using government to get what _you_ want, reguardless of the rights of others. I like to think freedom loving people would take it upon themselves instead of begging for help from big government. You see a policy at work, you quit. Go start your own company or work somewhere where they allow you to bring your gun. See a "No guns" sign at a business, make the adult decision to not enter. Crying for government to "DO SOMETHING!!" sounds very familiar to another group, those wanting to ban firearms.

Their power to disrupt my exercise of my rights extends beyond the borders of their property. I would like to see SB 0011 passed and put a stop to this nonsense.

Then you should quit that job. Of course you want to run to big government and beg for help. Don't come crying when you don't get what you want, or you wake up in the future to find rights that _you_ value now restricted. "Me, myself, and I" socialism cuts both ways. Say the gun liability lawsuit goes to a jury. Now, how many business owners do you want on the jury that were just told they can't run their property they way they want? Kiss jury nullification good-bye, tell the firearms makers to say hello to bankruptcy.

 

[Dogman]

Unless they have metal detectors or a pat-down policy, I would guess that something in the size of a Kel-Tec or LCP would be just right for you.

That is the purpose of DEEP concealment.

Agreed, this was the first thing that came to mind when reading the OP.

 

[Joe Williams]

snip
Kiss jury nullification good-bye, tell the firearms makers to say hello to bankruptcy.

Snip the rest of your rant

You've mentioned jury nullification about 23,000 times. Which is about 22,999 times more than it happens in real life. It happens, but only in cases of extreme outrage, which is fantastically rare. One would have to be an absolute... optimist... to pin their future and their family's on jury nullification.

And, in the case of the OP's situtation, what the heck is a jury going to nullify in the first place?

It's unlikely in the extreme that companies are going to start violating the private property rights of employees by launching routine, widespread searches of their cars. For one thing, it would cost them a fortune in lawsuits, and defending them would put them in an awfully awkward position because they would be claiming that while the companies have private property rights, their employees and the public at large do not. Remember, those cars are private property. What may happen is that employers will stop providing parking.

Again, the OP has a choice to make. Somebody asked "Why work for such a company?" Because an awful lot of companies have the same policy, and it's a real bitch to feed your kids on the satisfaction of telling a bad employer (and no matter how good they may seem in other respects, an employer willing to strip it's workers of the ability to protect themselves is a bad employer that doesn't give a hoot about it's people) to go to hell.

 

[dburkhead]

The only person forcing your father to go unarmed is your father. Unless he is forced under threat of bodily harm and/or death to work at this place, why doesn't he just quit and find another job or start his own business? Why should others who took the risk at starting their own business, signing the loan docs, taking all the risks, now be forced to be told how to run their business by someone else?

Have you gone looking for a job lately?

As for the "being told how to run their business by someone else" do you also believe that a boss should be able to fire someone for not putting out for said boss?

 

[SigSense]

Similar thing going on down in FL... MyFox Orlando | Disney Employee Bucks "No Gun" Policy

 

[jsgolfman]

As one who has worked for the same company for 16 years, quitting and going someplace else is not an option, nor is that argument valid for the majority of people.
That being said, his options are limited since he doesn't want to break the policy. Other than speaking to management, I don't see what else he can do.

 

[indyjoe]

Why would you work for such a company?

This describes many, many companies in the Tech sector at least. I would work for them because I like having a house and feeding my family. Our policy at work is much the same with a difference of having a local police officer at the front desk, 24/7. Having recently received my Lifetime LTCH after a couple years without one, I am going through these ideas in my mind as well.