"Duty Grade" optics

[jsx1043]

For me, as a police officer, "duty grade" means any optic or accessory that I feel has met the standard to possibly take or save someone's life while in use on my patrol rifle. I will try out and vet just about any product as long as it works, it can find a place on my rifle. That being said, I'm not necessarily going to throw a Truglo red dot on it, as I've had some on plinkers that worked fine, and just for giggles threw one on loaner rifle and ran a three-day SWAT training with it. Needless to say, it was not sturdy enough for work, and I would not trust it as a tool to employ lethal force.

The converse of that though, is that apparently the Nairobi Spec-Ops guy was using a SIG Romeo red dot on his kit, and he's definitely more badass than I am. I would hazard a guess that he or his unit had tested that optic and he felt comfortable with it. I'll use knock-off handstops, rail covers and light mounts as long as they hold up, I'm not ashamed, I'm frugal. Heck, the light mount I've used for the last 10 years has been a shotgun barrel/tube clamp...it's held up just fine and placed the light closer to the bore than any other mount.

 

[KJQ6945]

Tdogg, you say you want to shoot to 300 and be able to see 5.56 holes at 100. My recommendation would be to talk to Allen about a 2.5-10 PST. It will serve your purpose. A refurb with a lifetime warranty, at 1/2 to a 1/4 the cost of a NightForce is a win.

I have a Vortex PST, 2.5-10x32 on my MK12 Mod 0. I bought it when Allen first started getting the refurbs. I bought it as a interim scope to fill the gap, before I spent the the cash on the NightForce.

Screw NightForce, for this distance, the Vortex has done the job perfectly. It has enough turret to get where I'm going, and beyond. At 300 yards, you can draw faces on a 6" plate.

It does what what it's supposed to, every time. I'll be ordering another for the Mod 1.

 

[T-DOGG]

I ordered the refurb HST 6-24x50 from Alan. I appreciate all the suggestions and insight from everyone.

 

[Gabriel]

For me, as a police officer, "duty grade" means any optic or accessory that I feel has met the standard to possibly take or save someone's life while in use on my patrol rifle. I will try out and vet just about any product as long as it works, it can find a place on my rifle. That being said, I'm not necessarily going to throw a Truglo red dot on it, as I've had some on plinkers that worked fine, and just for giggles threw one on loaner rifle and ran a three-day SWAT training with it. Needless to say, it was not sturdy enough for work, and I would not trust it as a tool to employ lethal force.

I've had more than a few officer show up to range with a Truglo from Walmart mounted. They were not happy when they were told to remove them and acted like I made them waste their money. I heart being the bad guy.

Aimpoint is the only brand I've allowed for those that opt to put their own optics on their issued rifles. Mostly for the sake of uniformity. We have Aimpoints on all the SWAT rifles and I want to keep everything in line with what is already issued in case the rifle ends up in a court room. That will be a moot point once the department gets Aimpoint PROs for all the patrol rifles (which they are in the process of doing).

 

[VUPDblue]

Way kind of legal issue do you anticipate being tied to the choice of optics?

 

[phylodog]

Way kind of legal issue do you anticipate being tied to the choice of optics?

My concern was always a loss of zero creating a situation where an innocent person is injured/killed by an errant shot or an officer is injured/killed because their optic failed them and they were no longer able to effectively defend themselves.

 

[Gabriel]

My concern was always a loss of zero creating a situation where an innocent person is injured/killed by an errant shot or an officer is injured/killed because their optic failed them and they were no longer able to effectively defend themselves.

This.

 

[Goodcat]

This.

Assuming you are discussing ARs, with semi decent rings, I can’t imagine any $300 or higher scope losing zero from 223. I run Razors on everything, but I would trust any decent scope. Don’t overthink it IMHO

 

[VUPDblue]

Ok that’s fair, and I agree totally, but why specifically one brand when there are others that would be acceptable, assuming you don’t have issues with the likes of EOTech, Elcan, etc....

 

[Goodcat]

Ok that’s fair, and I agree totally, but why specifically one brand when there are others that would be acceptable, assuming you don’t have issues with the likes of EOTech, Elcan, etc....

Personally, I have never had an issue with vortex and there warranty is par none. You pay for it of course in the price. I use Vortex like I use Dewalt. It’s what I like! Nikon, Nightforce, trijicon, eotech, etc all make great products though. I always advise people not to get the bottom end from any brand and you’ll be fine.

 

[VUPDblue]

Yeah I understand all that and don’t disagree, I’m just more curious why a department would mandate the purchase of one optic over another, assuming the quality and reliability of others were on the same level.

 

[Gabriel]

Yeah I understand all that and don’t disagree, I’m just more curious why a department would mandate the purchase of one optic over another, assuming the quality and reliability of others were on the same level.

It's all me. You run Aimpoint or you run irons. It's pretty simple.

 

[VUPDblue]

Ok fair enough, I was just interested in the “why”, that’s all.

 

[Gabriel]

Ok fair enough, I was just interested in the “why”, that’s all.

The truthful non-pissy answer is that we don't have SOPs that state that anyone can even put their own optics on their issued rifles, let alone have one that lists acceptable models or brands.

To the very few that want to put their own money into an optic, my solution has been to only allow the Aimpoint PRO or T1 and that is because it is what the department already issues. It isn't because I don't like other brands, I'm really just trying to save officers from any unneeded hassles down the road.

 

[VUPDblue]

That’s pretty solid. Sounds like your patrol rifle SOP needs an update or overhaul. I feel like that’s also probably not uncommon.

 

[Gabriel]

That’s pretty solid. Sounds like your patrol rifle SOP needs an update or overhaul. I feel like that’s also probably not uncommon.

The department is in the process of buying PROs for all the rifles, so It won't be an issue for too much longer.

 

[Goodcat]

Also, there is the whole (no offense fellows) not all cops are gun guys, thing. Obviously, you exist, but I also know of many LEOs who only qualify, and don’t shoot other than that. A blanket department safety net makes sense. Imagine LEO Jimmy buys a 1-6 Strike Eagle (good optic, mediocre at best glass), and torques the rings at 60 inch lbs for some reason, sights it in, then writes down drop for 500 yards and takes a shot at 2 power during an altercation. Oops, doesn’t understand SFP vs FFP. I’d imagine it’s a safety net type policy.

 

[Denny347]

Also, there is the whole (no offense fellows) not all cops are gun guys, thing. Obviously, you exist, but I also know of many LEOs who only qualify, and don’t shoot other than that. A blanket department safety net makes sense. Imagine LEO Jimmy buys a 1-6 Strike Eagle (good optic, mediocre at best glass), and torques the rings at 60 inch lbs for some reason, sights it in, then writes down drop for 500 yards and takes a shot at 2 power during an altercation. Oops, doesn’t understand SFP vs FFP. I’d imagine it’s a safety net type policy.

We are prohibited from having magnifying optics on our patrol rifles.

 

[Goodcat]

We are prohibited from having magnifying optics on our patrol rifles.

Interesting. I never realized that, but when I think about it I’ve only seen non magnified.

 

[42769vette]

We are prohibited from having magnifying optics on our patrol rifles.

Its on a department by department basis. My local sheriff's department has 1-6's on all patrol rifles, and Ive sold countless 1-4/1-6's to departments across the US.