Do you need to get angry? Open this thread.

[dross]

While I know that it would not turn the economy around by itself, the gas companies could certainly help by keeping most of this gas in the US. I realize there are poor little third world nations that we can [STRIKE]exploit[/STRIKE] help out by selling them gasoline, but Argentina can sell them gasoline at less than a third of the price and still make a profit on it.

Put America's money back into America and America will prosper. Put America's money into other nations and the other nations will prosper. Funny, that sounds a lot like a certain presidential candidate's platform.

How would we keep it here? It's physical properties are not the issue. It doesn't really matter where it is physically, the price is set by the world market regardless of where the actual oil comes from.

There's no way around this. When we talk about upping U.S. oil production, all that means is that we'll produce an amount more equal to the amount we use. Where the oil actually comes from is irrelevant to the price.

 

[smokingman]

I don't understand the anger thing. What's there to be angry about?

The Federal government subsidizing gas and diesel sales to Mexico(through NAFTA price controls)lowering the price for the sales to central American countries.IE paying oil companies the difference between the market price and the agreed treaty price.

Then the same oil products are sold back to Americans at full market price.That is to say the oil companies are making a killing from government subsidies on oil at the cost (twice) of the American tax payer.

Example.
Sale of 1 barrel of diesel to Mexico.
Market price. 140 a barrel.
Treaty price 98 a barrel.
So the US government pays the oil company 42 dollars per barrel sold to Mexico to lower the price to the agreed treaty price.
Oil companies then have a barrel of diesel priced at 98 dollars a barrel.They sell it back into the US market at the full price of 140 a barrel.

The oil company made an extra 84 dollars on the sale of one barrel.Multiply times millions of barrels.

Most of the product never even leaves storage in the USA,it is all done on paper.

Understand why it is time to be past angry?

There have actually been congressional hearings on oil "subsidies" but you can guess how far those went.

I am all for free markets,this is not it.

I also imagine the same barrel is sold multiple times this way.Or did you think Exxon was the most profitable company in the world due to free markets?

 

[dross]

The Federal government subsidizing gas and diesel sales to Mexico(through NAFTA price controls)lowering the price for the sales to central American countries.IE paying oil companies the difference between the market price and the agreed treaty price.

Then the same oil products are sold back to Americans at full market price.That is to say the oil companies are making a killing from government subsidies on oil at the cost (twice) of the American tax payer.

Example.
Sale of 1 barrel of diesel to Mexico.
Market price. 140 a barrel.
Treaty price 98 a barrel.
So the US government pays the oil company 42 dollars per barrel sold to Mexico to lower the price to the agreed treaty price.
Oil companies then have a barrel of diesel priced at 98 dollars a barrel.They sell it back into the US market at the full price of 140 a barrel.

The oil company made an extra 84 dollars on the sale of one barrel.Multiply times millions of barrels.

Most of the product never even leaves storage in the USA,it is all done on paper.

Understand why it is time to be past angry?

There have actually been congressional hearings on oil "subsidies" but you can guess how far those went.

I am all for free markets,this is not it.

I also imagine the same barrel is sold multiple times this way.Or did you think Exxon was the most profitable company in the world due to free markets?

I don't see any of this in the article you posted. Maybe post where you're getting some of this other information.

 

[eblevins]

we need to conserve more

With the increasing fuel mileage new vehicles get they have to charge more to keep the oil companies politicians and lobists making record profits. It is crazy to export oil and refined fuels just to pay to buy it back.

 

[smokingman]

I don't see any of this in the article you posted. Maybe post where you're getting some of this other information.

International Energy Statistics

Drivers find fuel made in U.S. is half price in Mexican pumps - Houston Chronicle

It is older data(2009). Before we where even a net exporter.
I found a study on the 2010 market,I am trying to find it again.It did a good job of explaining how we buy crude from Mexico,refine it,sell it to them,then buy it back using NAFTA rules and regulations so the oil companies can earn more per barrel.

Still looking for it.I will find it again.It was a report sent to congress.

 

[IndyBeerman]

What this guy said. If anything, you should be mad that you have to pay almost fifty percent in taxes for gasoline in most states. (That's including the 18.4% federal gasoline tax of course).

Gasoline tax information - Indiana Gas Prices

That federal is 18.4 cents per gallon, not price per gallon.

So where do you come up with almost 50%

Connecticut has the highest state taxes coming in at 51.9 cents per gallon, plus the federal at 18.4, so that's 70.3 cents per gallon.

Indiana's is 43.6 plus the 18.4 so that's 52 cents per gallon and that leaves 2.97 cents a gallon for production and profits with today's price of 3.499 per gallon here in central Indiana