Do you know your trigger responsibility

[yotewacker]

Not trying to get an argument started. Just to get your mind thinking about what if you were in a situation to pull a trigger. Would you keep a cool head and know what to do? I will give you a few what if's.

Your OC carrying in a bank. Suddenly it's being robbed. A robber is standing about 30ft from you holding a customer hostage. You think you have a clear shot. Would you take it? Your life is not being threatened.

YES, okay. What if you miss and shoot the hostage? Or miss completely and you get shot. Or lets say that everything the way you planned and the robber is down. Then you say" I hope I killed that SOB".

NO, you do not shoot. You just act innocent and do nothing. After its over a bank customer notices you had gun and did nothing. The customer sues, you because you had the opportunity and means and did nothing!

In the YES part. The hostage sues you for shooting them. Or if you shoot the robber and make a derogatory comment. You will go to court for being reckless and looking for someone to shoot. Yes you can be tried by 12 jurors. But, are you sure you will not got to prison for your stupid remark, not acting when you should, or jeopardizing someones innocent life?

There are quite a few classes on how to shoot a gun. But very few classes on your responsibility to carry one. This is why I do not believe in OC carry. I want it to be my surprise. Very few times do you need a firearm in a split second. If the bad guy does not shoot you in the first 5 seconds. Then your chances are very good that you will survive. Look for the opportunity to counter attack. If you do not panic, you will notice an opportunity. If you OC'ing you just completely changed the game of what is going to happen.
Do you know what to look for in the other guys movements for you opportunity?
Do you know when your allowed to shoot if the guy has only a knife?
What if the guy has no weapons and starts pushing you around with his hands while your OC'ing? Is your gun secure enough he cannot grab it?
What if you draw your weapon and don't use it? You could be charge with pointing a deadly weapon at a person.

I think there should be more classes on this, not just how to shoot. It's not hard and requires little thought on how to shoot a gun. But the responsibilities on when and how is very hard and very complicated.
I do believe everyone should have the right to OC carry. But, in the sue happy world we live in, concealed is in my opinion the only way to go.

If you have to hesitate or think about this for any length of time. Then please read up more on the laws.

 

[lovemachine]

There is a class for this scenario. It's called Force On Force.

 

[eldirector]

There is an Indiana handgun law course offered, that at least covers the legal questions in your post. I have not yet taken it, but would like to.

There are several defensive and force-on-force courses that also interject rights/responsibilities into the training.

I suppose I should play the game and try to answer the questions, since I am posting anyway:

1) Robber @ 30ft. with hostage - I would not take the shot.
2) After its over, hostage sues - no basis for a suit. I would counter sue for court/lawyer costs.
3) Do you know what to look for in the other guys movements for you opportunity? - not specifically (a good defensive course might teach this). I'm also not looking for an "opportunity" to shoot. I just want to get home to my family.
4) Do you know when your allowed to shoot if the guy has only a knife? - To prevent serious bodily injury or a forcible felony on me or a third party - same as any other weapon (or lack thereof).
5) What if the guy has no weapons and starts pushing you around with his hands while your OC'ing? Is your gun secure enough he cannot grab it? - Yes.
6) What if you draw your weapon and don't use it? You could be charge with pointing a deadly weapon at a person. - Unlikely. If it was drawn under otherwise legal conditions (deadly force as in #4 above), but the threat ended prior to shots fired, then all was perfectly legal on YOUR end.

Thanks for sharing your opinions!

 

[noobert]

Well, in response to your knife scenario, I would definitely shoot. A knife is VERY deadly, possibly even more so than a firearm, at close range if the attacker knows how to use it

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

Your OC carrying in a bank. Suddenly it's being robbed. A robber is standing about 30ft from you holding a customer hostage. You think you have a clear shot.

Would you take it? Your life is not being threatened. NO

The customer sues, you because you had the opportunity and means and did nothing! The customer has absolutely no basis for a lawsuit.

But very few classes on your responsibility to carry one.

See "Comprehensive Indiana Gun Law at the following link:
http://www.tactical-firearms.com/

 

[Icarry2]

IMHO, defend yourself and your loved ones from any threat.

If innocent bystanders are in the line of fire or back drop then your call is your call, I can't tell anyone what to do, I only know what I would do.

Training is key to these and most situations where you are forced to defend yourself.

Snap drills on sheilded targets, snap double taps, evasion and other types of situational training can be learned, taught, practiced..

From my experience, few are trained enough to handle these type of high tension situations where the "S" hits the fan in under 5 seconds...

Oh and mutiple targets makes the situation way more diffcult to not get shot dead...

Training, training, training, drills, drills, drills, practice, practice, practice....

 

[yotewacker]

Well, in response to your knife scenario, I would definitely shoot. A knife is VERY deadly, possibly even more so than a firearm, at close range if the attacker knows how to use it

Indiana law says if the guy has an open knife within 21 feet. Then its considered a lethal weapon.

 

[wolfts01]

The fact that you're OCing makes your life threatened in this situation, so if you take the shot it is easily out of fear for your own life. If I were CCing I would not take the shot unless I was certain the robber is going to kill the hostage, but openly carrying your firearm throws any restraint out the window.

I would think if you hit any bystanders it would be on the robber and not you, because he is the reason for the situation occurring in the first place.

Plus, if you find a bank that doesn't have a policy against weapons, let me know.

 

[bwframe]

The fact that you're OCing makes your life threatened in this situation, so if you take the shot it is easily out of fear for your own life. If I were CCing I would not take the shot unless I was certain the robber is going to kill the hostage, but openly carrying your firearm throws any restraint out the window.

This brings up a very, very interesting question. If you choose to OC, how many of you realize the responsibility it carries? If you are called to task due to your OC, can you make the shot?

I would think if you hit any bystanders it would be on the robber and not you, because he is the reason for the situation occurring in the first place.

That would be incorrect. You are accountable for any shot you make.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

I would think if you hit any bystanders it would be on the robber and not you, because he is the reason for the situation occurring in the first place.
.

I'm fairly certain that you are incorrect here. I believe that whenever you fire your gun, you and only you are are responsible for the outcome. But regardless of what the law says, would you even consider firing a shot when you would risk hitting bystanders? This risk is the very reason I answered "No" to the question of whether I would take the shot. My choice was made on moral grounds, not legal ones.

 

[JetGirl]

Nope. Not a chance. My job is to get me and mine out or keep me and mine safe until such time. Otherwise, sorry for your luck, but I'm just a good witness.
Now if that bad guy grabbed my kid - different story. Fact is, I don't think he'd get the chance, though... we pound situational awareness in her head like we did the times tables.
Her best friend, on the other hand...well, we'll just say God created MiniJet's best friend to show us how we're doing with Mini...

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Indiana law says if the guy has an open knife within 21 feet. Then its considered a lethal weapon.

Would you please cite the Indiana Code where it says this?

Thanks.


-J-

 

[cositc]

Plus, if you find a bank that doesn't have a policy against weapons, let me know.

Old National.

 

[T.Lex]

Back in the days of usenet, there was a great series of posts called "The Red Zone." Pardon the google use, but here is a link to the first one:
TRZ.1 The Red Zone Starts Here. (Deadly Force Quiz) - rec.guns | Google Groups

It works best if you do them in order, but there are some really good scenarios to make you think about shoot/don't shoot or even the shoot/GTFO scenarios.
rec.guns | Google Groups&

 

[yotewacker]

Would you please cite the Indiana Code where it says this?

Thanks.


-J-

Not sure where its written. It was determined that a bad guy with an open knife can charge you from up to 21 feet away and stab you before you can pull your weapon. This is where seconds count for everything

But I have been taught that for many years and I know it was put to test in a police action shooting a couple of years ago.
If you want anymore info on this. Private msg me

 

[jsgolfman]

Nope. Not a chance. My job is to get me and mine out or keep me and mine safe until such time. Otherwise, sorry for your luck, but I'm just a good witness.
Now if that bad guy grabbed my kid - different story. Fact is, I don't think he'd get the chance, though... we pound situational awareness in her head like we did the times tables.
Her best friend, on the other hand...well, we'll just say God created MiniJet's best friend to show us how we're doing with Mini...

What she said. Being noble is all well and good, but it can get you dead real quick.

 

[eldirector]

This brings up a very, very interesting question. If you choose to OC, how many of you realize the responsibility it carries? If you are called to task due to your OC, can you make the shot?

I am not aware of any legal obligation that open carry entails, especially as opposed to concealed carry. I have no more duty to use deadly force than anyone else in the same situation. It is not my job to endanger myself to protect a third party. However, the law protects ME if I CHOOSE to.

Sure, some folks may WANT me to do something. Wanting <> legal responsibility.

So, yes, I believe I realize the responsibility "carry" carries.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Not sure where its written. It was determined that a bad guy with an open knife can charge you from up to 21 feet away and stab you before you can pull your weapon. This is where seconds count for everything

But I have been taught that for many years and I know it was put to test in a police action shooting a couple of years ago.
If you want anymore info on this. Private msg me

For your edification, and that of everyone else who reads this:

There's nothing at all like that in the Indiana Code.


-J-

 

[concrete dog]

I would think if you hit any bystanders it would be on the robber and not you, because he is the reason for the situation occurring in the first place.

What happened to being responsible for your round and what it hits or who it hits? Not sure what you mean about cc oc and restraint?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I would think if you hit any bystanders it would be on the robber and not you, because he is the reason for the situation occurring in the first place.

What happened to being responsible for your rounds and where they hit or what they hit?. Not sure about the cc oc comment and restraint?

EVERY bullet that leaves your gun, at the range or wherever, has a lawyer attached to it.

-J-