Deer Hunting and Trespassers....Suggestions NEEDED.

[Jack Ryan]

I do have one question. What does a property owner have to gain (other than deer meat) by preventing someone from recovering a deer that was not shot on their property? Just wondering.

Good neighbors.

Just speaking for myself but I wouldn't give a guy a problem getting his deer if he acts like he's got any sense. I don't tolerate stupid for very long though if I don't have to unless it's exceptionally entertaining.

 

[SNAFU-M1A]

Talk to the local Conservation Officer & let him know what's going on & see what you need to do. The good ones will do everything they can to take care of land owners & get poachers/tresspassers. Most sheriffs don't know what to do about poachers/tresspassers & will probably end up calling the CO anyway. The only problem is there is usually only one or two CO's working your county & probably surrounding ones & they are getting dozens of complaints just like yours plus others about shiners, road hunters, etc.

 

[erik7941]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. Robert and I are meeting tomorrow and I will definitely be bringing up my issues with him and from reading what Jack Ryan and others have to say on this topic, I'll be informing him of my intent to prosecute anyone I catch on my property.

 

[Indy317]

Folks have given some good advice. I am not sure about hunting w/o permission law, never heard of it but it makes sense. I do know about trespassing. If you read the trespassing statue, all one needs are signs and the person has been notified.

IC 35-43-2-2 Criminal trespass; denial of entry; permission to enter; exceptions
Sec. 2. (a) A person who:
(1) not having a contractual interest in the property, knowingly or intentionally enters the real property of another person after having been denied entry by the other person or that person's agent;
(2) not having a contractual interest in the property, knowingly or intentionally refuses to leave the real property of another person after having been asked to leave by the other person or that person's agent...
(b) A person has been denied entry under subdivision (a)(1) of this section when the person has been denied entry by means of:
(1) personal communication, oral or written;
(2) posting or exhibiting a notice at the main entrance in a manner that is either prescribed by law or likely to come to the attention of the public

Post your property, post it well. Signs facing in all different directions. Make it so that if an LEO comes to the property in any manner, they would easily see the signs.

Now, once you do this, _you_ need to take a more pro-active role in the prosecution of these individuals. When you call the police, you will meet with them and explain the situation. Some departments have trespass warning tickets. I personally would request the people be arrested for trespass. An LEO may or may not arrest the person. If you believe your property is marked well enough, that these "I didn't see the signs" are lies, then meet or call a police supervisor. Also meet with the prosecutor, show him/her photos of your property and how well it is marked. They may not want to do outright arrests, but if the property is marked well enough, summons should be issued to appear in court. Push for outright arrest of these individuals. Their guns will be confiscated and held for evidence if charged with hunting w/o permission (if there is such a law..if so, can someone post the IC #?).

If you can get local LE and the prosecutor to do outright arrest or summons on the first offense, that means they likely want to do trespass warnings. You need make your own form up to give to these individuals, even if the cops have their own form. My suggestions:
The form should have blanks for their name, address, and DOB at a minimum. A driver's license number would be good as well. Have language on the form that states they are banned from (your address). I would also use the language from the deed as well, that lays out the property lines. After this language, have additional language that if the above individual is found to have entered the real property described above, that they will be arrested and changed with Criminal Trespass IC 35-43-2-2. Something additional I would add, to get your point across, is the language from the handgun law. This is the language that says if you are not a proper person, your CCW can be revoked. It would be a stretch that a conviction of criminal trespass would revoke a CCW, but if they get a second charge on your property and they have a previous conviction from your property, it is a felony and that is one of the revocation rules. Note only that, I would threaten them with:
(8) does not have a conviction for any crime involving an inability to safely handle a handgun;

To me, if you are convicted of criminal trespassing, and you had a firearm on you, and you admit you didn't know the land you were on....how can you say you safely know how to handle _any_ firearms. You are basically admitting to shooting blind if you don't know the layout of the private land you are on.

Even if they couldn't revoke the CCW, the mere threat of it might make others more apt to stay off your land.

Again, you need to be tough. Go with the LEO to the people. If the LEO even agrees that the property is very, very well marked and the folks have to be lying about seeing the signs, have them arrested. If the LEO is hesitant, at least request they be given summons to appear (that way the prosecutor can decide to go with the charges or can call those guys up and tell them to no worry about going to court). If the LEO won't even give a summons, only a trespass warning...go with that, and use your trespass warning form as well. Use carbon-less copy forms and have them sign the form that they have been warned. Then request the LEO do a report so you can get a copy. Then, start keeping a file. I would also bring a camera and take their photos and keep those with the file. If they come back, the LEO should arrest them right there. Again, if your property is marked/posted really well...they should be arrested if the LEO is with you and you can testify they are on your property at the time the LEO sees them. If they won't, request a meeting with the supervisor/sheriff and if you don't get help there, meet with the prosecutor and see if he/she can get with the cops to get them to arrest.

Arresting people will get the word out, for sure. Just understand that this all lies on your shoulders. The cops should take action, but only the action _you_ want taken. Don't be a softy, a push-over. Start prosecuting, demand the outright arrest for the first offense...no warnings. Make sure your neighbors know and understand this. Post your property as best you can. Go on-line and find a place that sells bulk "No Trespass" signs then post away.

 

[glockednlocked]

I agree with Jack you have to use common sense. I dont allow anyone but close family to hunt on my property. I have come to this policy the hard way as I dont want to worry about who has permission so in short no one does, but that said I have acouple of great neighbors who I have told on several occasions that should a wounded deer cross the fence onto my property no problem of course go get it. this situation has only occured twice in over 10 years and both times I reiceved a phone call before they entered my property even though they allready had my permission. Be firm but fair and respect other peoples property if they are good people they will treat you the same way. If people try to take advantage let the courts handle it.

 

[emclean]

I do have one question. What does a property owner have to gain (other than deer meat) by preventing someone from recovering a deer that was not shot on their property? Just wondering.

it elimanates any question if the entry on to the property is alowed or not.

 

[4sarge]

Our local paper publishes a "No Trespass List" (for free) a couple times a year to post legal notice.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I do have one question. What does a property owner have to gain (other than deer meat) by preventing someone from recovering a deer that was not shot on their property? Just wondering.

One property I hunt is next to a large property some kind of up state hunt club leased. One day it was all just posted up "Lease by some pack of jerks..." or what ever. No hi, bye or screw you between neighbors. The VERY NEXT hunting season was spring turkey season. My buddy hears a shot that sounds like it's right outside his back wall of his house. He walks out and looks and there's two guys picking up a turkey 50 yards from his barn. They have their decoys all spread out and every thing.

The usual "Well who are you?", "Well we have permission. WE PAID FOR PERMISSION!", "Well we thought we were on...", "We shot it on our side and it ran..." all the normal pack of lies and BS lieing tresspassers always say. The land owner just said "Pick up your decoys from my side of the fence, cross back over the mowed clearing on MY side of the fence you climbed over and get back on your side and don't come back. EVER."

Those guys, any one from that club, and the neighbor who leased to them will NEVER be legally allowed on the property ever again. Not to look for a deer, not to pick up a deer, not to even throw a grappling hook over and drag a dead deer to the property line.

Some times you have to make it easy to understand. "no". period. that's it.

 

[MoparMan]

Jack-You always have the best responses. Pure common sense.

I wouldn't put up with someone trespassing on my property either. I dont allow it in the military and wont allow it at home.

 

[USMC_0311]

One property I hunt is next to a large property some kind of up state hunt club leased. One day it was all just posted up "Lease by some pack of jerks..." or what ever. No hi, bye or screw you between neighbors. The VERY NEXT hunting season was spring turkey season. My buddy hears a shot that sounds like it's right outside his back wall of his house. He walks out and looks and there's two guys picking up a turkey 50 yards from his barn. They have their decoys all spread out and every thing.

The usual "Well who are you?", "Well we have permission. WE PAID FOR PERMISSION!", "Well we thought we were on...", "We shot it on our side and it ran..." all the normal pack of lies and BS lieing tresspassers always say. The land owner just said "Pick up your decoys from my side of the fence, cross back over the mowed clearing on MY side of the fence you climbed over and get back on your side and don't come back. EVER."

Those guys, any one from that club, and the neighbor who leased to them will NEVER be legally allowed on the property ever again. Not to look for a deer, not to pick up a deer, not to even throw a grappling hook over and drag a dead deer to the property line.

Some times you have to make it easy to understand. "no". period. that's it.

I understand in that situtation and I would do the same. I shot a deer a few years back hunting Hoosier National. The deer ran and dropped after 150 yards. I did't know at the time but the deer was actually landed in a creek bed the creek being a private property line. A little grey area but I had no problem retrieving the deer. I don't have any private land to hunt and would not want to even accidently end up on private property with out permission (especially Jacks )

Side note went back to that same spot this weekend with my son (his first deer hunt) The deer really thinned out since last time, we had a good time but only saw one doe and couldn't get a shot on it. And nobody in camp had one either and that is really rare for them guys. Its been a few years since I have hunted so it was a good trial run, maybe next weekend.

 

[dcary7]

One thing you have to keep in mind. Is that there is the possibility it "could" be someone else. If you don't catch them on the property, then you can't prove it was them. So if you have other random people trespassing on your property besides him, you need to be careful about putting out trailcams to catch them AND pointing blame. That could cause unnecessary friction. Good chance the cams could walk away too.. as I have had happen to me already on my private property this year.. . I would suggest putting out a camera that immediately emails the pictures too your email address. (assuming that the trail cam idea is the route you pursue) That way if they take your cam.. you will hopefully get a pic of the person doing so

and jack is right, hunting without permission is a separate violation in which they can be cited for. Regular "trespassing" you get a warning first.

Good Luck,
Dustin