Dealing With Morons...

[churchmouse]

That's true of many people of all ages.

I con.........................Oh wait.................I agree.

 

[Nazgul]

The really sad part is it seems people, especially adults that should know better, choose to be morons.

Don

 

[JeepHammer]

Some times the "morons" have a high inteligence but no wisdom.

No, I think they are idiots.
Burned out on drugs, alcohol, watching idiot videos instead of learning something from 13 years of free (to them) school.
I sure pay a lot of taxes for them to get stoned, spend all their time on cell phones and generally become a moron...

Can't make change for a dollar, can't read instructions on a microwave meal,
Thinks 'Cool' will buy them everything and have no intention of ever working...

If EVERYTHING wasn't air bagged, rounded edges or rubber coated these people would be dead without question...

Something on TV called 'Birdbox' got them to walk in traffic and even drive BLINDFOLDED, and it went how you would expect...
Some poor sap just trying to get to/from work wound up with a totaled vehicle because some idiot tried to drive BLINDFOLDED.

Before that is was 'Planking', lying rigid in traffic, on railroad tracks, over the edges of buildings, etc.
That turned out the way you would expect also... Darwin awards material...

I watched some late 20-somethings snort HOT SAUCE then threaten to sue the restaurant because they got thrown out...

The battle cry of morons, "Its because I'm (insert minority here) ain't it?"
(No, it's because your are a moron, or you wouldn't say "Ain't", use a tired, lame cliche and you wouldn't do stupid things)

So you don't want your kids paddled in school?
Is a cattle prod out of the question since the current system isn't working and nothing else gets their attention?

I just don't have a clue how to deal with this bunch of current morons with no self preservation instincts or ability to accomplish anything.

 

[churchmouse]

No, I think they are idiots.
Burned out on drugs, alcohol, watching idiot videos instead of learning something from 13 years of free (to them) school.
I sure pay a lot of taxes for them to get stoned, spend all their time on cell phones and generally become a moron...

Can't make change for a dollar, can't read instructions on a microwave meal,
Thinks 'Cool' will buy them everything and have no intention of ever working...

If EVERYTHING wasn't air bagged, rounded edges or rubber coated these people would be dead without question...

Something on TV called 'Birdbox' got them to walk in traffic and even drive BLINDFOLDED, and it went how you would expect...
Some poor sap just trying to get to/from work wound up with a totaled vehicle because some idiot tried to drive BLINDFOLDED.

Before that is was 'Planking', lying rigid in traffic, on railroad tracks, over the edges of buildings, etc.
That turned out the way you would expect also... Darwin awards material...

I watched some late 20-somethings snort HOT SAUCE then threaten to sue the restaurant because they got thrown out...

The battle cry of morons, "Its because I'm (insert minority here) ain't it?"
(No, it's because your are a moron, or you wouldn't say "Ain't", use a tired, lame cliche and you wouldn't do stupid things)

So you don't want your kids paddled in school?
Is a cattle prod out of the question since the current system isn't working and nothing else gets their attention?

I cant say I disagree totally.

 

[BE Mike]

Polonius
“Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.”

 

[mikem1]

I really like that answer wish I had used it a lot more would have saved me a lot of money

 

[maxwelhse]

Yep. I've talked to an ex engineer for GM. His department would design a component to function flawlessly for life and send the specs to the purchasing department. They wouldn't accept that design because thee cost would be say $10 and they wanted it to cost $2. The engineers would then have to redesign the part to cut the cost back somewhere.

^Came to say pretty much exactly that.

I've worked on cars as a hobby/necessity for over 20 years and spent around 10 years in automotive engineering so far. What I tell people when the engineer bashing starts is that if engineers really had our say your car would be a family heirloom lasting for generations. It would also cost 10x. It would also get 5 mpg. All of those things you demand like windows and heaters? No need for those. They needlessly complicate the machine.

Basically, if you asked me to build you the perfect car, I would build you a 20,000lb model T out of stainless and power it with something highly agricultural and extremely heavy. As a machine, it would be glorious. As a car people actual want to own and operate, probably not as much...

So... More or less, it's a good thing there's someone around to restrain us. Either by cost or common sense. Stuff like sticking the alternator in a stupid spot is too far over the line, but so is half of the option sheet that everybody wants to check off, IMO.

 

[ATOMonkey]

^Came to say pretty much exactly that.

I've worked on cars as a hobby/necessity for over 20 years and spent around 10 years in automotive engineering so far. What I tell people when the engineer bashing starts is that if engineers really had our say your car would be a family heirloom lasting for generations. It would also cost 10x. It would also get 5 mpg. All of those things you demand like windows and heaters? No need for those. They needlessly complicate the machine.

Basically, if you asked me to build you the perfect car, I would build you a 20,000lb model T out of stainless and power it with something highly agricultural and extremely heavy. As a machine, it would be glorious. As a car people actual want to own and operate, probably not as much...

So... More or less, it's a good thing there's someone around to restrain us. Either by cost or common sense. Stuff like sticking the alternator in a stupid spot is too far over the line, but so is half of the option sheet that everybody wants to check off, IMO.

System engineering is fitting 10 pounds of **** into a 5 pound bag. There are going to be compromises.

I blame transverse mounted engines on most maintenance issues.

It's also important to know that engines are typically designed in 10 year cycles and cars are designed in 5 year cycles or less. So, the brilliant engine that was made for the current model car, doesn't quite fit right in the new model, and doesn't have a prayer in the next iteration. Engines and vehicles are designed in silos specifically because of this time lag. Very rarely (if ever) are the car and engine designed as an integrated system from jump street.

 

[churchmouse]

System engineering is fitting 10 pounds of **** into a 5 pound bag. There are going to be compromises.

I blame transverse mounted engines on most maintenance issues.

It's also important to know that engines are typically designed in 10 year cycles and cars are designed in 5 year cycles or less. So, the brilliant engine that was made for the current model car, doesn't quite fit right in the new model, and doesn't have a prayer in the next iteration. Engines and vehicles are designed in silos specifically because of this time lag. Very rarely (if ever) are the car and engine designed as an integrated system from jump street.

Consider the use of existing drive train components to get a new or re-boot model on the roads. The V-6 that was originally badged as a Buick resides in so many models/makes across the GM spectrum as does the LS series of V-8's. It has been all to common since the mid 60's.

I totally agree with the transverse engine placement. Having to remove everything from the top of the engine and or take of the stabilizing mount and lean the engine forwards to get the back 3 plucks is idiotic but un-avoidable. Alternator/AC compressor and power steering pump placement is due to this as well.
All of this goes back to the assembly line.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Things I miss from the 60's through the 70's+, I miss the tune-up with plugs, points, condenser, air filter, crankcase filter every ten thousand miles, I miss adding a qt oil every 250 to a 1,000 miles, I miss 2,500 to 3,000 mile oil changes, I miss the oil slick in the middle of each driving lane. I miss replacing belts and heater hos s every two years or so.
I miss the highway being littered with broken down cars and trucks, I miss ten mpg pickups and luxury cars.
I miss the blue smoke coming from cars and trucks while driving every day.
I miss that cars were worn out in most cases before they rolled over 100,000 miles...

 

[JettaKnight]

Things I miss from the 60's through the 70's+, I miss the tune-up with plugs, points, condenser, air filter, crankcase filter every ten thousand miles, I miss adding a qt oil every 250 to a 1,000 miles, I miss 2,500 to 3,000 mile oil changes, I miss the oil slick in the middle of each driving lane. I miss replacing belts and heater hos s every two years or so.
I miss the highway being littered with broken down cars and trucks, I miss ten mpg pickups and luxury cars.
I miss the blue smoke coming from cars and trucks while driving every day.
I miss that cars were worn out in most cases before they rolled over 100,000 miles...

Don't forget about the choice of either getting an engine rammed into your lap or flying out the windshield during a collision...

 

[churchmouse]

Things I miss from the 60's through the 70's+, I miss the tune-up with plugs, points, condenser, air filter, crankcase filter every ten thousand miles, I miss adding a qt oil every 250 to a 1,000 miles, I miss 2,500 to 3,000 mile oil changes, I miss the oil slick in the middle of each driving lane. I miss replacing belts and heater hos s every two years or so.
I miss the highway being littered with broken down cars and trucks, I miss ten mpg pickups and luxury cars.
I miss the blue smoke coming from cars and trucks while driving every day.
I miss that cars were worn out in most cases before they rolled over 100,000 miles...

And lest we forget the OSHA rated all steel dash with protruding impalement devises.

 

[JollyMon]

I have to deal with my intern, now full time employee, daily. I cant avoid them. While I dont expect much out of them, its amazing how companies will throw away money on hiring individuals that cannot perform basic functions of their job titles and how simple tasks can somehow take weeks instead of hours.

Only a couple more months and they will be someone else's problem.

 

[JeepHammer]

50s, 60s and some 70s cars,
Although disc brakes had been around and functioning since the 30s, widely used during WWII, there are still vehicles made with drums in the back.

Electronic fuel injection needed to wait until processors got fast enough, then wait for engineers that knew something about voltage spikes, EM & RF signal noise before they became reliable.
Before electronic injection I think half the fuel wound up in the crank case as soot or raw fuel... So oil changes at 3,000 miles maximum or when it smelled more like fuel than oil...

And let's not forget 'Anti-Freeze' that let the radiator freeze sold going down the road and corroded parts into solid rust blocks!

If you are old enough, you remember having to 'Tune Up' breaker point ignitions every 1,000 to 1,500 miles, and replace breaker points every 3,000-3,500 if you wanted all the cylinders to fire.
Of course, you couldn't convince people you had to have a dwell meter to properly adjust breaker points, and to check up on the wear on the distributor cam lobes that opened/closed the points... Most used a feeler gauge and left it at that, so getting the vehicle started & running was a challenge, and engines often only lasted 50,000 miles.

Most can't remember relining brake shoes, riveting a brake lining on the shoe without cracking it was more art than science...
And that fun of spinning a wheel on a jack while manually adjusting brakes! Nothing like having a 6,000 pound vehicle inches from your nose on a wobbly jack...

Right & left handed lug nuts!
When 'Engineers' thought spinning lugs the same direction on both sides of the vehicle would loosen the lugs on one side...

And rubber cased batteries! Batteries so bad they froze up and busted!
Everyone had one of those little domed battery charger for cold weather, and usually a heat lamp too.
The charger wasn't to charge the battery, it was to thaw it out...
And with starting fluid, a second person, a battery charger & heat lamp,
And assuming you put your forehead against the steering wheel and projected good vibes, it *Might* start on a sub zero day...
(Back when we had Sub-Zero days in winter)

If it didn't start by 8:30 AM, you called it a snow day and went back inside to thaw yourself out over a second-third cup of coffee.

Vehicles so heavy, and springs/shocks so bad you could understeer AND oversteer at the same time!
It was like trying to drive Fred Flintstone's dinosaur while it was on a drunk and horny, entirely a physics grab-bag with all the things going on...

And for those of us that had to do it, Indian Head Gasket Sealer on steel shim head gaskets!
I think I still have some of that nasty crap stuck to me somewhere, still waiting for it to grow off 45 years later.
With enough Indian Head, I'm not entirely sure you needed head bolts...

There is a reason we stuff LS engines in everything and update the entire suspension, steering & brakes!
But then again, we don't have to take VW Bug size pot holes at 60 MPH anymore, and those old tanks with tall, soft side tires would do that for years without serious damage...

 

[JeepHammer]

I have to deal with my intern, now full time employee, daily. I cant avoid them. While I dont expect much out of them, its amazing how companies will throw away money on hiring individuals that cannot perform basic functions of their job titles and how simple tasks can somehow take weeks instead of hours.

Only a couple more months and they will be someone else's problem.

No kidding!

My cousin hired a couple high end collage graduates (Rose Human) and the first thing they did was crash the brand new CNC tool head into the table.
$35,000 worth of damage before it made a single cut.

They worked nearly a year on the new (then) 03 Mustang suspension,
19 custom made parts, 17 moving that needed to be adjusted, and they couldn't adjust the design they built...
After a weekend with the old, no collage designers (and a lot of burgers & beer) 5 parts, one adjustment, so obvious it really didn't need explained.
When trained for aerospace, the idea of 'Simple' has been beaten out of them.
They lasted two years, produced very little, and I was surprised they lasted two years...

 

[churchmouse]

50s, 60s and some 70s cars,
Although disc brakes had been around and functioning since the 30s, widely used during WWII, there are still vehicles made with drums in the back.

Electronic fuel injection needed to wait until processors got fast enough, then wait for engineers that knew something about voltage spikes, EM & RF signal noise before they became reliable.
Before electronic injection I think half the fuel wound up in the crank case as soot or raw fuel... So oil changes at 3,000 miles maximum or when it smelled more like fuel than oil...

And let's not forget 'Anti-Freeze' that let the radiator freeze sold going down the road and corroded parts into solid rust blocks!

If you are old enough, you remember having to 'Tune Up' breaker point ignitions every 1,000 to 1,500 miles, and replace breaker points every 3,000-3,500 if you wanted all the cylinders to fire.
Of course, you couldn't convince people you had to have a dwell meter to properly adjust breaker points, and to check up on the wear on the distributor cam lobes that opened/closed the points... Most used a feeler gauge and left it at that, so getting the vehicle started & running was a challenge, and engines often only lasted 50,000 miles.

Most can't remember relining brake shoes, riveting a brake lining on the shoe without cracking it was more art than science...
And that fun of spinning a wheel on a jack while manually adjusting brakes! Nothing like having a 6,000 pound vehicle inches from your nose on a wobbly jack...

Right & left handed lug nuts!
When 'Engineers' thought spinning lugs the same direction on both sides of the vehicle would loosen the lugs on one side...

And rubber cased batteries! Batteries so bad they froze up and busted!
Everyone had one of those little domed battery charger for cold weather, and usually a heat lamp too.
The charger wasn't to charge the battery, it was to thaw it out...
And with starting fluid, a second person, a battery charger & heat lamp,
And assuming you put your forehead against the steering wheel and projected good vibes, it *Might* start on a sub zero day...
(Back when we had Sub-Zero days in winter)

If it didn't start by 8:30 AM, you called it a snow day and went back inside to thaw yourself out over a second-third cup of coffee.

Vehicles so heavy, and springs/shocks so bad you could understeer AND oversteer at the same time!
It was like trying to drive Fred Flintstone's dinosaur while it was on a drunk and horny, entirely a physics grab-bag with all the things going on...

And for those of us that had to do it, Indian Head Gasket Sealer on steel shim head gaskets!
I think I still have some of that nasty crap stuck to me somewhere, still waiting for it to grow off 45 years later.
With enough Indian Head, I'm not entirely sure you needed head bolts...

There is a reason we stuff LS engines in everything and update the entire suspension, steering & brakes!
But then again, we don't have to take VW Bug size pot holes at 60 MPH anymore, and those old tanks with tall, soft side tires would do that for years without serious damage...

Yes.

 

[JeepHammer]

Thought you might remember that stuff...

It could be worse, my grandpa was talking about is first roughly 100 mile trip in a car and said they were lucky, the roads weren't flooded, only had to be pulled out twice and only had one flat tire each way. Took all day to go 100 miles, spent the night, then spent all day coming home.
Not because the cars were that slow, but the roads were that bad.

I like a particular Jeep, after bell crank steering up to about '86 because they are dirt simple.
It's a light duty 4 wheel drive tractor, and that's how I use it.
Wheel base and track width, combined with center of gravity, they aren't 'User Friendly' at highway speeds, but they are light, reliable, and you have to nuke them to stop them.
Any idiot that can figure out a torque wrench can work on them, but I have a constant stream of Jeepers in here for work.
I honestly don't get it other than they don't know how a wheel bearing or 'U' joint works...
I'm the 'Jeep Dude' locally.

Even when they get one gone through, they ALWAYS complain about how noisy, how the ride is rough (buggy springs!), how the steering is difficult, etc.
It's 35+ years old! What do they expect?

Bikes are the same way, they get a hard tail with short sidewall tire and complain how rough the bike rides...
Or they want an old style kick start then complain how hard the bike is to start.

I'm SO happy they don't make them like they used to!
I don't need bun warmers or power tampon dispenser, but I do like it when the vehicle starts, runs, stops when I press the brakes!

 

[churchmouse]

Thought you might remember that stuff...

It could be worse, my grandpa was talking about is first roughly 100 mile trip in a car and said they were lucky, the roads weren't flooded, only had to be pulled out twice and only had one flat tire each way. Took all day to go 100 miles, spent the night, then spent all day coming home.
Not because the cars were that slow, but the roads were that bad.

I like a particular Jeep, after bell crank steering up to about '86 because they are dirt simple.
It's a light duty 4 wheel drive tractor, and that's how I use it.
Wheel base and track width, combined with center of gravity, they aren't 'User Friendly' at highway speeds, but they are light, reliable, and you have to nuke them to stop them.
Any idiot that can figure out a torque wrench can work on them, but I have a constant stream of Jeepers in here for work.
I honestly don't get it other than they don't know how a wheel bearing or 'U' joint works...
I'm the 'Jeep Dude' locally.

Even when they get one gone through, they ALWAYS complain about how noisy, how the ride is rough (buggy springs!), how the steering is difficult, etc.
It's 35+ years old! What do they expect?

Bikes are the same way, they get a hard tail with short sidewall tire and complain how rough the bike rides...
Or they want an old style kick start then complain how hard the bike is to start.

I'm SO happy they don't make them like they used to!
I don't need bun warmers or power tampon dispenser, but I do like it when the vehicle starts, runs, stops when I press the brakes!

The remote start is just the best thing since sliced bread.....

And yes I grew up with all that work.

I will say that driving a vehicle that requires your full attention will make you a better driver. These fly by wire machines we have now have generated a group of lazy non-attention span dip ****s that do not have a clue.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Consider the use of existing drive train components to get a new or re-boot model on the roads. The V-6 that was originally badged as a Buick resides in so many models/makes across the GM spectrum as does the LS series of V-8's. It has been all to common since the mid 60's.

I totally agree with the transverse engine placement. Having to remove everything from the top of the engine and or take of the stabilizing mount and lean the engine forwards to get the back 3 plucks is idiotic but un-avoidable. Alternator/AC compressor and power steering pump placement is due to this as well.
All of this goes back to the assembly line.

When all this happened is pretty much when I stopped doing all but the most basic maintenance on vehicles myself. I miss those big, uncluttered engine compartments that you could practically climb in and walk around the engine. I don't have the patience (or equipment) to practically pull the engine just to change the sparkplugs or do what used to be an easy replacement of a part.

 

[jkaetz]

When all this happened is pretty much when I stopped doing all but the most basic maintenance on vehicles myself. I miss those big, uncluttered engine compartments that you could practically climb in and walk around the engine. I don't have the patience (or equipment) to practically pull the engine just to change the sparkplugs or do what used to be an easy replacement of a part.

This isn't reserved for transverse engines anymore. The wife's vehicle needed the seals on an oil cooler changed. A $10 part even from the five star lobby of a prominent German dealership. But guess where the cooler is? Mounted to the engine valley. To replace it is to R&I the top 1/3 of the engine. ~$600 in gaskets and 14 hours of labor or a weekend if you're motivated enough. Mind you this is a longitudinally mounted V6.

I can and do still change air, cabin, oil, fuel filters and oil without too much trouble.