Critique my Dillon sizing die workaround

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  • craigkim

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    Okay, so I would like to stop sorting brass by head stamps. This goes for both 45 and 9mm. Problem is that, if I don't do that, then I will have no way of keeping track of what came from where, how, when, etc. If I stop sorting by head stamp, inevitably I will have a fair amount of range brass mixed into my supply and therein lies the problem. On cases that I have fired, I have no issue resizing and reloading them on my Dillon 650 with Dillon resizing dies, however when you start to mix in some range brass, I get high percentages that fail my case gauges. Sure, I can take my ammunition and plunk test it instead, but then I have guns with tolerances that will not plunk and those that will in both 45 and 9. None of them are cheap firearms, I think my least expensive is a Walther PPQ but it seems more forgiving, and I do not see it as a firearm centric issue.

    As background: My normal process is to wash the fired brass in my tumbler, dry it, then I have separate toolheads setup that I switch out on the Dillon which just have a resizing/decapping die on them. I run the all through it, which is very fast, then they go back into the tumbler with pins.

    In my thinking through the problem, I realized that the cases causing me problems also fail the case gauge prior to being loaded as well. SO, the cases have become distorted out of spec and the Dillon resizing die is not sizing them down far enough. Again this is just on cases that are "range brass". How do I fix that? My idea was to find a tighter resizing die, but i am reading that this will slow down the press as the DIllon dies have a built in funnel like contour to allow the case to guide into the resizing die better, while others like Lee do not and instead have a more squared entry profile to size the case more fully. I read that Redding resize better and are smoother, but I already have the Dillon and the Redding are $86. SO, for $25, I want to try using the Dillon die as essentially a decapping die in station 1 and then put a Lee die, with primer punch pin removed, in station 4 in order to accomplish a more full resizing. Why would I do this? Well, station 4 has a case that will be held in place by the pin whereas station 1 has the variability of being seated by the case seating arm, which can be a bit finnicky.

    ???????
     

    BigBoxaJunk

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    If you like to uncap, then wash your brass again, why not set up a single stage press with the Dillon uncapping/resizing die for that.

    Then, you could have the Lee die in station one of the Dillon press to "clean up" the resizing and then be able to keep all the other dies in their normal positions.

    Seems like that would be a lot faster.
     

    craigkim

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    If you like to uncap, then wash your brass again, why not set up a single stage press with the Dillon uncapping/resizing die for that.

    Then, you could have the Lee die in station one of the Dillon press to "clean up" the resizing and then be able to keep all the other dies in their normal positions.

    Seems like that would be a lot faster.
    Could definitely do that, but the process isnt faster that way. Either way, when my decapping/resizing toolhead is on the press I just run it progressively. Every pull of the handle decaps/resizes one and one shuffles out of station 5 into the bin. Its just that this way, stations 2-5 are inactive. Note, that my loading toolhead also has a dillon sizing/decapping die on it as a final qc prior to loading.

    I was hesitant to run the Lee in station one, because if you are familiar with the 650, the arm that pushes the case onto the shell plate isnt perfect. There is a little slop. Its not a problem with the dillon die and its flared mouth, but I was worried that the Lee die will be less forgiving.... But thats also how it supposedly accomplishes a more thorough resizing toward the shell base. But, at station 4 the case is pretty stable, its the one that normally seats a bullet. I tighter die would work better here, I think, but it cant have a decap pin as there is no channel below it.
     
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    I run Lee sizing dies in some of my toolheads. I have no problems with station one and the die not being flared. That being said, the thread is so short on their sizing dies you have to put the locknut on the bottom of the toolhead. I have prob 4 or 5 conversions with Lee die setups and have no problems.
     

    red_zr24x4

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    Any of our toolheads that we have Lee dies in, we've went to the hardware store and bought thinner nuts for. Ace Hardware is where we go.
     

    17 squirrel

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    I use nothing but Dillon pistol dies, I don't think I have ever had the problem you are having.
    I will say if its a autoloader pistol cartridge I will use a Taper Crimp after seating the bullet. The Taper Crimp will also help with what rounds fit in your chamber gage.

    The first question I will ask you is, how do you setup your sizing die to your shellplate ?????
     

    craigkim

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    Agree w/ Squirrel....check your sizer.
    If that's good you might try a Lee Factory Crimp Die.
    Has a carbide sizing ring on it.
    Carbide Factory Crimp Die 9mm - Lee Precision

    Well, I followed the instructions in the manual, which I vaguely remember as... take a fired case and put it in station 1 and cycle the press. Lower the die until it resizes the case to where it will fit your case gauge or your barrel. Maybe this was from the video, but that is the basic method I used. It works fine on MY fired brass, but anything that I have acquired as "range" brass it does not size enough. Now, I have it adjusted as low as I can and it still doesn't adequately size a lot of cases.
     

    17 squirrel

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    Tighten down your sizer die until it compresses your shell plate alittle.
    I believe it's not down far enough.
     

    craigkim

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    Tighten down your sizer die until it compresses your shell plate alittle.
    I believe it's not down far enough.

    Ah, okay, I went until it JUST touches and then backed off a little. I will try it tonight. Thanks.

    I'd love it if this did the trick.

    edited for spelling
     

    17 squirrel

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    Don't back it off, compress the shellplate alittle. Those last few thousands, will and can make a huge difference with what rounds drop in the chamber gage.
     
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    Don't back it off, compress the shellplate alittle. Those last few thousands, will and can make a huge difference with what rounds drop in the chamber gage.
    I know for me on 9mm I have to make sure my die compresses the shell plate. My G17 bulges the brass (yes I am a Glock guy and I admit it bulges, their are very few of us ) and if I don't they won't chamber correctly.
     

    craigkim

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    Don't back it off, compress the shellplate alittle. Those last few thousands, will and can make a huge difference with what rounds drop in the chamber gage.

    Didn't work. Once, I have the Lee die Ill try the same though.

    I examined some of the cases and its definitely "bulge". Unfortunately I'm finding it on some of my cases though too, now that I am looking. My only Glock is a 30s, but Im only dealing with 9mm cases right now. My 9mm cases went through an hk vp9, a springfield xd, walther ppq, cz shadow, and a cz tactical sports.....? Hard to say who the culprit is.
     

    17 squirrel

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    If its a bulge from being shot in a unsupported barrel your not going to get it out with a regular sizing die.
    I would suggest getting a bulge busted die and run all your range 9mm brass through it before you put that brass in rotation.
    Some of your range brass and now i see your own brass that has been shot in Pistols that don't have fully supported barrels.
    You tend to see it more with 40 S&W but it also happens in 9mm.
     
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