Cowboy action shooting

[IndyGunSafety]

Are there any cowboy action shooters here. I attended my first match today. On the way home I called my wife and told her I need to buy a lot more guns!

That's why i have not gone yet. I know I'll love it and want to get involved.

 

[Delmar]

As soon as you introduce a timer, keep score, and have prizes available based on performance, the "spirit of the game" is on a death spiral. People who feel the need to "win" at something will eventually become the dominant force in the actual competition.

If the spirit of the game is really important to you, it shouldn't matter what the others are doing or if you are "competitive." It should be about the experience you have doing your thing.

What is wrong with wanting to win? Wanting to win at any cost, is a different thing, but what is a game, without a certain amount of competition?

 

[rhino]

What is wrong with wanting to win? Wanting to win at any cost, is a different thing, but what is a game, without a certain amount of competition?

I neither stated nor implied any opinion about the inherent value of wanting to win. I stated some of the inevitable consequences of creating an atmosphere where the desire to win the competition will eventually affect the activity. The point is, you can't have it both ways. If it's a competition, some people are going to do whatever it takes within the boundaries of the rules to win, and others will inevitably feel and eventually lament that it has adversely affected the "spirit" of the game. If the spirit of the game is or should be more important, than it would probably be a good idea to not introduce elements that will detract from that spirit, such as prizes and money based on performance.

You can have that friendly gentleman's agreement type of low key competition among a few buddies, but it's not going to hold once you get an organization with tens of thousands of active participants.

 

[Delmar]

I neither stated nor implied any opinion about the inherent value of wanting to win. I stated some of the inevitable consequences of creating an atmosphere where the desire to win the competition will eventually affect the activity. The point is, you can't have it both ways. If it's a competition, some people are going to do whatever it takes within the boundaries of the rules to win, and others will inevitably feel and eventually lament that it has adversely affected the "spirit" of the game. If the spirit of the game is or should be more important, than it would probably be a good idea to not introduce elements that will detract from that spirit, such as prizes and money based on performance.
[?QUOTE]OK, that makes sense

You can have that friendly gentleman's agreement type of low key competition among a few buddies, but it's not going to hold once you get an organization with tens of thousands of active participants.

That is why I'm not really sure if I will ever advance much, beyond shooting at the local club once a month. It seems, from what I have seen so far, that the win at any cost attitude, is not much of a factor at the club I attended. If that does enter in, I would hope I am mature enough, not to let it rob me of my joy.

 

[rhino]

That is why I'm not really sure if I will ever advance much, beyond shooting at the local club once a month. It seems, from what I have seen so far, that the win at any cost attitude, is not much of a factor at the club I attended. If that does enter in, I would hope I am mature enough, not to let it rob me of my joy.

That's why club level matches have the potential to be a great experience for everyone involved.

In the sports in which I participate, I have never had the desire to attend any of the national championships. It just doesn't appeal to me because I know the competition aspects will (and probably should) overwhelm anything that I consider fun. I used to shoot in USPSA Area matches (which is one step below the national champhionships), but I'm not interested in that anymore, either.

On the other hand, the SASS "End of Trail" is more than just the competition. I've never been to it, but from all of the articles and TV shows I've read and seen, the social and reenactment aspects are at least as important as who wins the various divisions. It's almost like they are separate events, with certain members being more interested in one or the the other, and a minority being interesed in both equally. If I were a cowboy shooter, I'd probably want to attend just for that stuff even if I didn't shoot.

 

[mospeada]

As an active SASS shooter, I'd recommend attending the larger shoots. They are a chance to meet more people, shoot guns and socialize. It's like a vacation with shooting and that's not a bad thing.

Also, some of the larger shoots have vendors you don't typically get to patronize, some say SASS stands for Single Action Shopping Society with good reason. I doubt there's another sport where you can buy so much stuff to add to the experience. I've been doing it for about 8 years and I'm still buying accessories and such...

 

[Delmar]

As an active SASS shooter, I'd recommend attending the larger shoots. They are a chance to meet more people, shoot guns and socialize. It's like a vacation with shooting and that's not a bad thing.

Also, some of the larger shoots have vendors you don't typically get to patronize, some say SASS stands for Single Action Shopping Society with good reason. I doubt there's another sport where you can buy so much stuff to add to the experience. I've been doing it for about 8 years and I'm still buying accessories and such...

Actually I was looking just yesterday at some of the larger events and thinking it would be a good way to meet more cap and ball guys. Also the larger events would probably be of more interest to my wife.

 

[rvb]

That is why I'm not really sure if I will ever advance much, beyond shooting at the local club once a month. It seems... the win at any cost attitude, is not much of a factor at the club I attended. If that does enter in, I would hope I am mature enough, not to let it rob me of my joy.

So the assumption is that attitude is a factor at other clubs or major matches?

I have never had the desire to attend any of the national championships. It just doesn't appeal to me because I know the competition aspects will (and probably should) overwhelm anything that I consider fun. I used to shoot in USPSA Area matches (which is one step below the national champhionships), but I'm not interested in that anymore, either.

I'm curious what you guys consider fun that you are not able to do at a larger match? If it's not that you can't do something you want to, then what happens at larger matches that takes away from the enjoyment? What makes a big match different than a local match? Where do you draw the line (local/state/regional or area/national)?

I expect the answers would be pretty similar accross all shooting organizations... perhaps I should start a new thread... I think the discussion I want is bigger than cowboy shooting and further drifting this thread...

-rvb

 

[rvb]

you can't have it both ways. If it's a competition, some people are going to do whatever it takes within the boundaries of the rules to win, and others will inevitably feel and eventually lament that it has adversely affected the "spirit" of the game. If the spirit of the game is or should be more important, than it would probably be a good idea to not introduce elements that will detract from that spirit, such as prizes and money based on performance.

What I see as the real problem with this situation is that it creates yet another wedge between shooters. "Us" vs "Them." "We" are right and "they" are wrong. In some cases the spirit vs competition issue has spawned whole new organizations... and in at least one case that cycle is in it's 3rd generation where the game with intention to get back to the "spirit" was still too gamey for some and people went off and created organizations with even more "spirit."

It's bad enough that "we" as gun owners are divided on a macro level where the hunting community doesn't care if "assault" guns are banned and "sporting pupose" has worked its way into determining legality of guns that adhear to the "spirit" of life. Now people are getting upset at the very people on the range who are standing next to them participating in the very same event they are.

If someone not adhearing to an idea of "spirit" is upsetting, then some introspection is required. Why does it bother them? If the goal is to practice with carry gear, to shoot period-correct guns, to be a better law enforcement guy, whatever, then why do they care what the "gamer" is doing? Assuming everything is done w/in the confines of the rules, why is a "gamer" offensive? On the other hand, if someone wants to win, what are they willing to invest in that goal (either in equipment or in sweat)?

"Us" vs "Them" should be gunowners against the tyrants in DC.

Whatever your goal is when you show up to a match, enjoy it. don't let the way others play the game keep you off the range.

just my 2c

-rvb

 

[Delmar]

So the assumption is that attitude is a factor at other clubs or major matches?

I don't know that it is, but others, in this thread have said that it is a problem in the organization somewhere. So I don't know that I will get involved at a regional or national level, but I have not vowed not to be.

I'm curious what you guys consider fun that you are not able to do at a larger match? If it's not that you can't do something you want to, then what happens at larger matches that takes away from the enjoyment? What makes a big match different than a local match? Where do you draw the line (local/state/regional or area/national)?

I expect the answers would be pretty similar accross all shooting organizations... perhaps I should start a new thread... I think the discussion I want is bigger than cowboy shooting and further drifting this thread...

-rvb

I'll look forward to that thread.

 

[Delmar]

...Whatever your goal is when you show up to a match, enjoy it. don't the way others play the game keep you off the range.

You are speaking my language!

 

[rhino]

I'm curious what you guys consider fun that you are not able to do at a larger match? If it's not that you can't do something you want to, then what happens at larger matches that takes away from the enjoyment? What makes a big match different than a local match? Where do you draw the line (local/state/regional or area/national)?

Here some things that sap the fun from bigger matches for me:

• Overnight stays in motels, especially if it's more than one night
• Costs - I either have to pay for motel and match fees, or I have to work the match. Both cost too much.
• Travel time costs too much.
• What's fun for a few hours isn't always as much fun starting at 0800 and ending after it gets dark, especially when it's hot and humid outside.
• Sometimes you get squadded with people who are no fun, then you have to spend the day with them. This can happen at a club level match, but 1) it's easier to fix, and 2) it doesn't last all day.

That's all that come to mind right now, but I think "I don't enjoy them" should suffice. Bottom line is that the cost/benefit ratio grows with the size of the match in my experience, sometimes rapidly.

 

[rhino]

"Us vs. Them" is inevitable with people, I think, especially when life is too comfortable. Until people's backs are against the wall, petty emotions like envy are too easy to indulge. But I digress.

I've been preaching that people should do it (whatever it is) for their own reasons and not worry about what the other guy is doing for well over a decade now. I think I understand, but I don't "get" things like people who claim to like to shoot didn't want to shoot because someone else had different equipment than they had or who shot the matches with a different intent. Unless your sole goal is to win, why would it matter what anyone else was doing? Of course, that's easy for me to say and not always easy for some to put into action.

What I see as the real problem with this situation is that it creates yet another wedge between shooters. "Us" vs "Them." "We" are right and "they" are wrong. In some cases the spirit vs competition issue has spawned whole new organizations... and in at least one case that cycle is in it's 3rd generation where the game with intention to get back to the "spirit" was still too gamey for some and people went off and created organizations with even more "spirit."

 

[Delmar]

Here some things that sap the fun from bigger matches for me:

• Overnight stays in motels, especially if it's more than one night
• Costs - I either have to pay for motel and match fees, or I have to work the match. Both cost too much.
• Travel time costs too much.
• What's fun for a few hours isn't always as much fun starting at 0800 and ending after it gets dark, especially when it's hot and humid outside.
• Sometimes you get squadded with people who are no fun, then you have to spend the day with them. This can happen at a club level match, but 1) it's easier to fix, and 2) it doesn't last all day.

That's all that come to mind right now, but I think "I don't enjoy them" should suffice. Bottom line is that the cost/benefit ratio grows with the size of the match in my experience, sometimes rapidly.

Of the stuff you mentioned, the expense is the only one slowing me down a bit. I may try to attend the SASS MIDWEST TERRITORIAL BLACK
POWDER SHOOTOUT in April

Big Irons Ranger

​

 

[rvb]

I expect the answers would be pretty similar accross all shooting organizations... perhaps I should start a new thread... I think the discussion I want is bigger than cowboy shooting and further drifting this thread...

-rvb

I don't know that it is, but others, in this thread have said that it is a problem in the organization somewhere. So I don't know that I will get involved at a regional or national level, but I have not vowed not to be.I'll look forward to that thread.

New Topic:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/shooting_sports/66049-goals_and_competition.html

-rvb

 

[mospeada]

RE: Big matches. The only things that challenge me are the time commitment and cost. Neither have been obstacles I can't overcome.

As far as the shooting and having fun, those I usually get accomplished and have lots of fun doing.

The thing I try to do also is go with my buddies that shoot the local matches with me so I'm not just alone in a strange land. I doubt I'd travel to a Regional or National match alone.

Delmar, as for cap and ballers, if you can make it down to Pleasant Valley, we've got some who shoot pretty much every match, one is a 14 yo young lass who threatens to kick the snot out of the menfolk on a regular basis. It's only a matter of time with her until she rules the roost.

So come on down if you can, the next good opportunity is probably March though.

 

[Delmar]

Delmar, as for cap and ballers, if you can make it down to Pleasant Valley, we've got some who shoot pretty much every match, one is a 14 yo young lass who threatens to kick the snot out of the menfolk on a regular basis. It's only a matter of time with her until she rules the roost.

So come on down if you can, the next good opportunity is probably March though.

I don't have any of my cowboy guns yet. So I am not in a huge hurry to plan a five hour trip, but once I get going, that sounds like fun.

 

[38-72]

Been shooting CAS for years. It a lot of pure fun!

 

[Delmar]

Been shooting CAS for years. It a lot of pure fun!

What part of the state do you live in, friend?