Could you have stopped the evil?

[churchmouse]

I don’t think we are necessarily stuck on 50 yards, but most of this happened in a parking lot, a big one, and that brings up the can you make that shot.

I started that early on and just wanted to put it away as everyone seemed stuck on it.
Just making sure.

And yes, I could make that shot. But add the anxiety's that will come with it and the degree of difficulty does increase.

 

[indykid]

The old "know what is behind your target" comes into play here and the seconds taken verifying could be costly, but the idea of spray and pray from a distance could end your freedom when it is determined that one of the people killed was by your bullet that "missed".

Very very hard choice to make, but personally my vote is return fire and pray your misses are clean and the target takes the hint.

 

[BigRed]

There is much speculation in this thread.

I carry at all times.
I practice regularly.
I participate in drills and events intended to introduce unknown factors and adrenaline.
I am a "better than average" when it comes to using handguns and long guns.
I do my best to exercise situational awareness.
I make a considerable effort towards developing and maintaining a skill set I pray I never have to use.

If forced into a bad situation where going down is a real possibility, I have no intention of going down without giving my best fight.

The reality is that is all any individual can do.

 

[spec4]

To me, it seems to be a situation where none of us know exactly how we would react. Certainly the reaction would need to be quick. I'd like to think I would send rounds his way real fast.

 

[Sigblitz]

I'm a firm maybe.

I thought this was in response to 'on the fence' person.

I don't fantasize what if I could have taken the shot, but I don't think I would stand there while he's sending rounds my way.

 

[ACC]

Can I put a hit on target with my EDC at 50 yards? Yes.

Can I do it on a moving target? Possibly.

Can I do it with my heart racing and the target moving? Probably not.

Can I find cover/concealment and then an emergency exit if he is 50 yards away? Absolutely.

Sometimes your best option is to GTFU

 

[Alpo]

In a range situation after a competition, a number of us used to regularly shoot at a 100 yd steel plate with handguns. Handguns ranged from 45 LC to .38 spcl cowboy loads.
I don't remember anyone having a problem hitting steel, even with a 38 Bond Derringer. Shooting was accomplished single handed in many cases, depending on the "style" of the individual shooter,

I don't think it is difficult to hit a man-size target at 50 yards. It is difficult to pull the trigger under stress at another individual. But I'm relatively confident that most/many here could hit an 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper at 50 yards.

 

[bwframe]

"50 yards was just a reference point for accuracy people"
It is not the point at which I thought we should engage. Why is every one stuck at 50 yards. Maybe we can get past this.

It's not your issue, it's mine. I laid it out that way in the OP. It's the shot you have been given at a rifle wielding terrorist that you witness killing people with your own eyes. You have to make of it what you will. That includes everything from bad moves to no moves.

50 yards is a shot that can be made by those who have practiced it and know they can make it.

Advancing is a possibility, if all the stars align and you can make the shots after covering the ground between, while possibly being shot at.

Spray and pray is a possibility also, if it's worth the risk to innocent bystanders and of suicide for bringing a handgun to a rifle battle.

We often run scenarios in our minds where we'd end the evil. We don't learn much from making it in our minds like a simpler bad breath distance self defense situation.

 

[churchmouse]

It's not your issue, it's mine. I laid it out that way in the OP. It's the shot you have been given at a rifle wielding terrorist that you witness killing people with your own eyes. You have to make of it what you will. That includes everything from bad moves to no moves.

50 yards is a shot that can be made by those who have practiced it and know they can make it.

Advancing is a possibility, if all the stars align and you can make the shots after covering the ground between, while possibly being shot at.

Spray and pray is a possibility also, if it's worth the risk to innocent bystanders and of suicide for bringing a handgun to a rifle battle.

We often run scenarios in our minds where we'd end the evil. We don't learn much from making it in our minds like a simpler bad breath distance self defense situation.

As I look back you are correct. This getting sucks.

 

[churchmouse]

It's not your issue, it's mine. I laid it out that way in the OP. It's the shot you have been given at a rifle wielding terrorist that you witness killing people with your own eyes. You have to make of it what you will. That includes everything from bad moves to no moves.

50 yards is a shot that can be made by those who have practiced it and know they can make it.

Advancing is a possibility, if all the stars align and you can make the shots after covering the ground between, while possibly being shot at.

Spray and pray is a possibility also, if it's worth the risk to innocent bystanders and of suicide for bringing a handgun to a rifle battle.

We often run scenarios in our minds where we'd end the evil. We don't learn much from making it in our minds like a simpler bad breath distance self defense situation.

And the more I look at this the more I am liking VUPD's back pack deal. Not sure about pistol caliber but that is pretty slick.

 

[bwframe]

And the more I look at this the more I am liking VUPD's back pack deal. Not sure about pistol caliber but that is pretty slick.

Anyone that has ever witnessed VUPD shoot, would never want to be on the wrong end of his muzzle shooting anything.

That said, I'm with you. Rifle caliber rifle for me thanks.

 

[bwframe]

Another thought on the spray and pray thing...

Something that is yet to mentioned is shots coming back your way from the spray and pray downrange where you have been dumping rounds. Or being mistaken from any surrounding direction as the active shooter by other good guys like yourself.

 

[churchmouse]

Anyone that has ever witnessed VUPD shoot, would never want to be on the wrong end of his muzzle shooting anything.

That said, I'm with you. Rifle caliber rifle for me thanks.

I have seen him shoot and yes, rifle caliber.

 

[VUPDblue]

I chose 9mm PCR over rifle for a few reasons. First, not shown in the pics is the can, and with 147gr HSTs it is scary quiet and won’t ring my ears. With that little commie bastard, I can hit where I’m aiming all day long and not deafen myself if the boogaloo is indoors. I can also keep him guessing as to my whereabouts based on the report if I have the opportunity to use decent concealment. Sure the North Hollywood scenario is possible, but after studying a lot of the mass shootings in public places, my sneaky commie would have been sufficient pretty much every time.

 

[churchmouse]

I chose 9mm PCR over rifle for a few reasons. First, not shown in the pics is the can, and with 147gr HSTs it is scary quiet and won’t ring my ears. With that little commie bastard, I can hit where I’m aiming all day long and not deafen myself if the boogaloo is indoors. I can also keep him guessing as to my whereabouts based on the report if I have the opportunity to use decent concealment. Sure the North Hollywood scenario is possible, but after studying a lot of the mass shootings in public places, my sneaky commie would have been sufficient pretty much every time.

This makes perfect sense. The noise a short barreled 5.56 makes is deafening.

 

[VUPDblue]

My work gun is a 10.5” AR and man is it blasty!

 

[Denny347]

This makes perfect sense. The noise a short barreled 5.56 makes is deafening.

Yeah, shooting prone under a baffle next to one is awful. Blast get blown behind my glasses.

 

[NHT3]

The question is can you make the shot if it's 50 yards or 50 feet. I've seen guys miss a man size target at 5 yards during the carry gun match with no pressure other than a timer and people watching. A lot of food for thought and information here. I believe I have trained enough to make the shot but making the decision to shoot will also be a difficult because of several reasons mentioned earlier in the thread.
From what I understand both of these tur9s were taken alive. That tells me that when confronted by someone armed they probably soiled their shorts and defaulted to hands up don't shoot. I believe I would take a shot without hesitation but I've never been shot at so I don't know what I would do AND I hope I'm not forced to find out. My advice to those that haven't trained but feel being a keyboard commando and having testosterone knowledge is enough, beat a hasty retreat.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT]

“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public”

[FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I think I could. I think I could also fail. I've shot movers at 50y with decent success. I've hit targets with Simunitions in FoF at that distance. The 9mm HST works just fine at longer distances. I also have the advantage of it not being my first rodeo. I know I don't get the adrenaline shakes until after. I do get bad tunnel vision and auditory exclusion. Finding the guy might be the harder part. I can force myself to break out of tunnel vision but I am all but deaf under high stress. I've tried various "fixes" in training and can't get past it. The only thing I've been able to do is raise my bar for what "high stress" is.

I'm not dedicated enough to carry a backpack. Good on you guys who are. It's smart. Long gun access, medical supplies, etc.

 

[bwframe]

Do officers use the combat breathing thing under stress? Is it recommended for us citizen LTCH holders?