Converting 220V to 110V

[ws6guy]

My old as dirt hot tub finally quit on me and it is not being replaced. However I'd like to convert the 220v to 110v so I can have an outlet in that location to run a water feature and or landscape lights. There is a breaker box on the side of the house for the hot tube and it has a slot where I can add the 110v breaker. Would it be against the rules(code) to use the existing 6 or 8 gauge wire for the receptacle? Of course I'd only be using one of the hots so the remaining hot line would be disconnected on both ends.

 

[churchmouse]

Each leg of that existing 220 breaker will check 110 to the ground. Pull the single phase breaker and put in 2 110's. You now have the ability for 2 dedicated circuits.
Some wiring and plug changes at the receptacle are in order now.

 

[ws6guy]

what about the neutral, can it be shared on both 110's?

 

[churchmouse]

what about the neutral, can it be shared on both 110's?

Yes. There is a common neutral in the panel.

 

[ws6guy]

I'll be damned, didn't know a neutral is/can be shared across circuits. As you can tell I don't do much electrical Might still hire an electrician as I also want to get genny transfer switch or interlock too.

Now will it be an issue getting a 6 gauge wire into a 110 breaker? I figure it's not going to be the easiest to get it connect to the outlet. But I guess I could use 12 gauge jumpers from the 6 gauge to the outlet.

Now I got to find out where the hell they buried the wire at. I dug a 5 ft long by about 2ft deep trench last night where the most direct path to the hot tube would've been and didn't find a damn wire.

 

[JettaKnight]

I'll be damned, didn't know a neutral is/can be shared across circuits. As you can tell I don't do much electrical Might still hire an electrician as I also want to get genny transfer switch or interlock too.

Now will it be an issue getting a 6 gauge wire into a 110 breaker? I figure it's not going to be the easiest to get it connect to the outlet. But I guess I could use 12 gauge jumpers from the 6 gauge to the outlet.

Now I got to find out where the hell they buried the wire at. I dug a 5 ft long by about 2ft deep trench last night where the most direct path to the hot tube would've been and didn't find a damn wire.

Well, 24" would be the minimum, unless it's in conduit, then 6" for metal, 18" for plastic.
See Table 300.5

As to the wire size, larger wire is fine. But, your phrasing (i.e. "110 breaker"), leads me to believe you should hire an actual electrician.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Well, 24" would be the minimum, unless it's in conduit, then 6" for metal, 18" for plastic.
See Table 300.5

As to the wire size, larger wire is fine. But, your phrasing (i.e. "110 breaker"), leads me to believe you should hire an actual electrician.

220... 240... 110....120.... 121.122 whatever works.....

 

[ws6guy]

ok how's 120v gfi circuit breaker Will still likely hire an electrician unless I can talk my companies maintenance guy to come help. I have a hard time blindly trusting anyone working on my stuff unless I know them, electrician or not. I at least want to be knowledgeable on what they are doing

I was thinking that 24" is the minimum for primary power going into the house. Of course this is a secondary and from past experiences it seems that few people bury that deep. I'm not 100% sure what conduit they used. Coming out of the panel is both the 220v and a 110v line in the same plastic conduit. However the 110 line goes in the opposite direction of the hot tub so it must split off somewhere. The 220 line comes out of the concrete pad in a 3/4" flexible plastic conduit.

 

[churchmouse]

You set the breaker size to match the wire size. No, do not put the #6 wire in that breaker. If you put a 30A in use #10 wire max.

 

[femurphy77]

I'm guessing a #6 in a 20 amp breaker is going to be right on the cusp of not fitting under the screw. How about a small remote 2 circuit panel at the location of the old hot tub disconnect? You could then feed a couple of outdoor receptacles from one circuit and have a spare for future. Of course there's a little more to it than that but you get the basic idea.

That and the ability to say "pre wired for hot tub" when you get ready to sell can't hurt.

 

[epeery]

Now will it be an issue getting a 6 gauge wire into a 110 breaker? I figure it's not going to be the easiest to get it connect to the outlet. But I guess I could use 12 gauge jumpers from the 6 gauge to the outlet.

Please don't pigtail 12 gauge wire to 6 gauge. It's a fire hazard and an NEC violation. The 6 gauge wire and the breaker feeding it can overheat the 12 gauge wire causing a fire. Stepping down to 12ga AFTER a 20 amp breaker is fine, but not before.

Rule of thumb for wire sizes:
15 Amps - 14ga
20 Amps - 12ga
30 Amps - 10ga

 

[epeery]

You set the breaker size to match the wire size. No, do not put the #6 wire in that breaker. If you put a 30A in use #10 wire max.

CM, that should be 10ga MIN, not max. If you use anything smaller than 10ga you risk overheating the wire before the breaker trips.

 

[epeery]

I'm guessing a #6 in a 20 amp breaker is going to be right on the cusp of not fitting under the screw. How about a small remote 2 circuit panel at the location of the old hot tub disconnect? You could then feed a couple of outdoor receptacles from one circuit and have a spare for future. Of course there's a little more to it than that but you get the basic idea.

That and the ability to say "pre wired for hot tub" when you get ready to sell can't hurt.

Good idea! The 6ga wire is good for ~65 amps, so it could supply 3-4 circuits easily.

 

[ws6guy]

Dang guys I was just wanting to add a stinking plug in without having to run a new line LOL!

 

[Mgderf]

Dang guys I was just wanting to add a stinking plug in without having to run a new line LOL!

Then do femurphy77's idea.
It's the safest, and easiest.

 

[ws6guy]

I'm guessing a #6 in a 20 amp breaker is going to be right on the cusp of not fitting under the screw. How about a small remote 2 circuit panel at the location of the old hot tub disconnect? You could then feed a couple of outdoor receptacles from one circuit and have a spare for future. Of course there's a little more to it than that but you get the basic idea.

That and the ability to say "pre wired for hot tub" when you get ready to sell can't hurt.

The second circuit panel would have to be out in the middle of the landscape since the hot tub is about 20ft from the house but this might be the easiest to do. I could place a post out there and mount both the circuit panel and the outlet to the post.


When I finally dig up the line what do think the over under is of cutting the conduit without damaging the line and then pulling a few feet out from under the concrete pad? Hell it might be easier to run a new line out to this location. I'd only have to go under 2 sidewalks and watch out for a firepit gas line and sump pump line. At least the total length would only be around 30-40 feet.

All this for a damn plug in that could come in handy if I add landscape lights or a water feature. I'm just say screw it and cut line coming out of the pad and fill the hole and be done with it...LOL

 

[JettaKnight]

CM, that should be 10ga MIN, not max. If you use anything smaller than 10ga you risk overheating the wire before the breaker trips.

Right.


Why don't we run 6 ga on a 20 amp circuit? Because it's expensive, hard to work with, and somewhat confusing. But it's certainly acceptable.

Please don't pigtail 12 gauge wire to 6 gauge. It's a fire hazard and an NEC violation. The 6 gauge wire and the breaker feeding it can overheat the 12 gauge wire causing a fire. Stepping down to 12ga AFTER a 20 amp breaker is fine, but not before.

I assumed he was changing out the breaker feeding it, but it certain isn't clear.

I'm guessing a #6 in a 20 amp breaker is going to be right on the cusp of not fitting under the screw. How about a small remote 2 circuit panel at the location of the old hot tub disconnect? You could then feed a couple of outdoor receptacles from one circuit and have a spare for future. Of course there's a little more to it than that but you get the basic idea.

That and the ability to say "pre wired for hot tub" when you get ready to sell can't hurt.

This is probably the optimal solution. You need to be putting in a sub panel, the hard part of trenching and running wires was already done.



Please, OP, don't do something that the next homeowner (or electrician) will look at and go, "Why the heck did he do this?!"

 

[JettaKnight]

The second circuit panel would have to be out in the middle of the landscape since the hot tub is about 20ft from the house but this might be the easiest to do. I could place a post out there and mount both the circuit panel and the outlet to the post.


When I finally dig up the line what do think the over under is of cutting the conduit without damaging the line and then pulling a few feet out from under the concrete pad? Hell it might be easier to run a new line out to this location. I'd only have to go under 2 sidewalks and watch out for a firepit gas line and sump pump line. At least the total length would only be around 30-40 feet.

All this for a damn plug in that could come in handy if I add landscape lights or a water feature. I'm just say screw it and cut line coming out of the pad and fill the hole and be done with it...LOL

Why are you digging it up?


And if it's lighting, screw it all and go low voltage - you can just knife those cables into the ground.

And submersible pumps often come with really long cords.

 

[Sailor]

I just yanked out a 35 yr old electric water heater at the office today and am putting in a smaller 1500w one. Seems really straight forward. Funny this post is up today.

 

[ws6guy]

Why are you digging it up?


And if it's lighting, screw it all and go low voltage - you can just knife those cables into the ground.

And submersible pumps often come with really long cords.

digging cause the line for the tub comes out a few feet into the pad where the tub was at, not an optimal place for an outlet or sub panel.

I think I'm going to let this project rest for now. If I decide at a later point that I need power out there I know where to start. For now I'm going to cut the line and fill the hole in the concrete pad. Wife is currently laid off from work and doesn't want to spend any unnecessary monies anyway.