Canadian VA Recommends Euthanasia to Veterans with PTSD as option

[KellyinAvon]

Yes, really. Nothing personal to you or any individual employee but system wide, **** the VA.

Anyone interested in the skyrocketing rates at which veterans were prescribed pain medications over the previous decade or so, suicide rates, and abject failures to treat underlying physical and emotional issues rather than throw pills at the problem should read the following congressional transcripts: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-113hhrg85864/html/CHRG-113hhrg85864.htm

The fundamental issues with the VA lead to accidental overdose rates much greater among veterans than other groups prescribed the same medications. The amounts prescribed by the VA to individuals was much greater than non-VA doctors, even when dealing with similar symptoms. Then they reversed course and decided to just start cutting people off with the predictable results of people now made into addicts by high doses of habit forming medication no longer having access to it and not being properly weaned down. Veteran suicides, already high, further increased.

Remember when the VA lied about wait lists and falsified records on wait times for appointments and how many veterans died before getting an appointment as they sat on a 'secret wait list'? I do.

Another fun read: https://www.newsweek.com/2017/10/20/va-fueled-opioid-crisis-killing-veterans-681552.html

Research the Tomah VA and how painkillers prescribed for mental health issues caused something like a 4x increase in prescriptions while total number of patients declined.

While I do not personally believe in it, I've heard the mantra "If I ever go to the VA again it'll be with the intent to never come back out" more than once from serious people. I've come very very close to having to kill a vet with an edged weapon in a narcotic craze. I've sent many to the hospital to attempt to save their lives who, ultimately, decided to end their life on their own terms.

I will not step foot in a VA again. I will literally die first. That is not hyperbole. I will literally die before I use the VA for anything, period. So, yes, really. **** the VA.

We can disagree, and be polite and professional. I'm glad we can do this.

FULL DISCLOSURE: When not moderating INGO, KellyinAvon is a Management Analyst and has been for almost 23 years. For the last 15 years I've been at the Indianapolis VA Med Center. I'm also a patient there (I have Docs through TRICARE as well) and my Dad is a patient there as well. I took him to his Audiology appointment today, on 13 October he gets new hearing aids. That's a good thing, he spent his life around diesel engines.

You cited a Newsweek article. Didn't Newsweek sell for $1 a while back? Tomah, I remember that. Tomah is a level III facility (very small.) That's one of 143 VA Med Centers.

Now you could've found a local article from (IIRC) 2015 concerning opioids and the Northern Indiana Healthcare System (AKA Marion, Fort Wayne, Muncie CBOC, etc.) That was a story leaked by the DEA. By 0830 I debunked their BS. Norco (Hydrocodone/Acetaminophen) had gone from DEA Schedule III to Schedule II the year before. All Norco Rx had to process from the local facilities vice the Consolidated Mail Outpatient Pharmacies (CMOPs) as it did as C-III. Of course they purchased a lot more Norco, all local facilities with pharmacies did too.

I'm an Analyst, I make charts. Lots of charts. These include Controlled Substance Rx by month and rolling year. There has been a SIGNIFICANT decrease in CS Rx and has been for years.

Now when you say "**** the VA", I take it that doesn't include the Veterans Cemetery Administration or the Veterans Benefits Administration (GI Bill, VA-backed mortgages.) Now VACO (the VA Central Office), **** them and the horse they rode in on. That leaves the Veterans Health Administration or VHA. MOST VA employees come under VHA.

Quote-unquote "Pill Mills" AKA Pain Clinics in Appalachia and Florida: that wasn't the VHA.

Don't get really sick in July!! VA Med Centers (particularly the large level 1A and 1B facilities) tend to be near... medical schools. Yes, VA hospitals are teaching hospitals. Dad had a malignant tumor removed... in late June.

Veteran suicides: suicidal veteran and VA patient are not mutually exclusive.

I took Dad to his Audiology appointment today because Mom isn't driving right now. One of her NON-VA Docs took her off a med they REALLY shouldn't have. Maybe it's not just the VHA. We get our Docs from the same places the other Doc-places get their Docs.

Before I was .gov I was .mil and I was .mil when it was mil(dot). That's funnier when I say it than when I type it. I say this because the same organization that allowed me through GI Bill to finish my MBA FOR FREE at the age of 51, would've thrown me in prison for refusing the vaccine that destroyed my short-term memory in 2004.

Oh yeah, Phoenix had the hidden wait lists. This came to light when a number of patients died on a wait list. I found out later 17 of the patients came in as new VA patients with stage IV cancer. Arizona: God's waiting room. Hidden wait lists were left over from the previous facility director there (from my boss's sources: a real POS.)

I provide the wait times for window Rx at the Indy VAMC Pharmacy. Yesterday there were over 700 window fills and the average wait time was 15 minutes, 25 seconds. If I tell you it's going to rain, bring your umbrella.

I'm not sure when I figured this out, but we (the VHA) are "do no harm" people in a very utilitarian environment (do the best you can, with what you've got.) I mentioned earlier Norco going from DEA Schedule III to Schedule II. Schedule III can have 5 refills on the prescription, Schedule II requires a new prescription/no refills. In 2014 (we got all of about 2 months notice) when Norco went C-II I ran the numbers for the regional pharmacy call center. I went to my bosses and said our call volume would increase by 13% (we were running close to 90% capacity... do the math) and the behind the scenes work would increase by 20%. In the private sector we'd have gone to an institution called... a bank. I'd have shown them the numbers, we'd have gotten a note to cover the extra staff required, cost per call on 13% more calls (I ******* called that one right BTW) would've paid off the note, press on.

As it was, after 2 years of horrific service to our Veterans we were able to increase the staffing to what was needed. The service actually improved after 18 months... because the call volumes dropped after 18 months of ***** service. I really hate this ****, we could've done so much better. It wasn't from a lack of trying on our (not all the VHA, just a few of us in Indy's) part.

Well that was a bit longer than I expected. Again I'm glad we can disagree and still be polite and professional.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

We can disagree, and be polite and professional. I'm glad we can do this.

FULL DISCLOSURE: When not moderating INGO, KellyinAvon is a Management Analyst and has been for almost 23 years. For the last 15 years I've been at the Indianapolis VA Med Center. I'm also a patient there (I have Docs through TRICARE as well) and my Dad is a patient there as well. I took him to his Audiology appointment today, on 13 October he gets new hearing aids. That's a good thing, he spent his life around diesel engines.

You cited a Newsweek article. Didn't Newsweek sell for $1 a while back? Tomah, I remember that. Tomah is a level III facility (very small.) That's one of 143 VA Med Centers.

Now you could've found a local article from (IIRC) 2015 concerning opioids and the Northern Indiana Healthcare System (AKA Marion, Fort Wayne, Muncie CBOC, etc.) That was a story leaked by the DEA. By 0830 I debunked their BS. Norco (Hydrocodone/Acetaminophen) had gone from DEA Schedule III to Schedule II the year before. All Norco Rx had to process from the local facilities vice the Consolidated Mail Outpatient Pharmacies (CMOPs) as it did as C-III. Of course they purchased a lot more Norco, all local facilities with pharmacies did too.

There's a plethora of information I *could* have cited, as there is for you as well. Given the brevity of the format here I posted enough for people interested in the topic to have a starting place to research for themselves.

My personal experience with the VA is such that there is no chart you can show me that will convince me to enter those doors again. I was lied to repeatedly, had my paperwork 'lost', did not get the assistance I was told I would get, had my belongings stolen while I was in an exam room, had my personal information compromised, and I was one of the lucky ones. Again, I will literally die before stepping foot in a VA hospital. I'm glad your experience is different and Indy is better than others, but I am completely unwilling to reconsider my position on this any more than I am on Bill Clinton because simply remembering the VA exists reminds me of how poorly I was treated, how victimized I felt at the time, and how little I wish to risk that experience again. **** the VA.

Non-healthcare: They did manage to **** up by GI Bill as well, stating the 'overpaid me' the first two years despite underpaying what my contract said I would get. I did use my VA mortage and it was helpful at refinance time, but the funding fee sucked up most any savings from PMI. It is the one thing they did not **** up. Veteran's cemetery is irrelevant to me, I didn't do 20, and wouldn't use it if I could. I'll be cremated or buried unembalmed, survivor's call, on my own land. I have no issue with those who would choose differently and value the benefit if they can get it.

 

[KellyinAvon]

There's a plethora of information I *could* have cited, as there is for you as well. Given the brevity of the format here I posted enough for people interested in the topic to have a starting place to research for themselves.

My personal experience with the VA is such that there is no chart you can show me that will convince me to enter those doors again. I was lied to repeatedly, had my paperwork 'lost', did not get the assistance I was told I would get, had my belongings stolen while I was in an exam room, had my personal information compromised, and I was one of the lucky ones. Again, I will literally die before stepping foot in a VA hospital. I'm glad your experience is different and Indy is better than others, but I am completely unwilling to reconsider my position on this any more than I am on Bill Clinton because simply remembering the VA exists reminds me of how poorly I was treated, how victimized I felt at the time, and how little I wish to risk that experience again. **** the VA.

Non-healthcare: They did manage to **** up by GI Bill as well, stating the 'overpaid me' the first two years despite underpaying what my contract said I would get. I did use my VA mortage and it was helpful at refinance time, but the funding fee sucked up most any savings from PMI. It is the one thing they did not **** up. Veteran's cemetery is irrelevant to me, I didn't do 20, and wouldn't use it if I could. I'll be cremated or buried unembalmed, survivor's call, on my own land. I have no issue with those who would choose differently and value the benefit if they can get it.

We all have reasons for the choices we make. Yes the Atlanta Regional Office ****** up my GI Bill too. I ended up transferred to the Muskogee Office and the Okies were outstanding.

The VCA provides the Veterans Markers you see at all cemeteries. Free of charge, when my FiL passed in Jan 2021 (He was USAF from 1961-1964) they actually beat the headstone being placed.

Like any huge government entity, there will be a lot of "this sucks" involved. That's on both the receiving service and providing service sides of the process. Here in a little bit I'll be working for a while, then taking Dad to Physical Therapy. It's kind of funny, I always wear a hat when I go to appointments and people I know don't recognize me when I'm wearing a hat. Probably because I'm under-cover (see what I did there?)

Again I'm glad we could discuss without throwing things at each other. I wish your experience with the huge government entity would've been better (or at least, sucked less.)

 

[actaeon277]