Campus Carry? Stopped? Stymied? Passed?

[Serial Crusher]

I've been trying to watch SB 12 as it develops and have been voicing my support to our state reps about it, but I can't find any solid info on its progress. I fired off a bulk email after looking at a few sites about it and something caught my eye.....

(EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2008):
Chapter 11.5. Regulation of Firearms by State Universities and Colleges
Sec. 1. A state educational institution may not regulate in any manner the ownership, possession, sale, transfer, or transportation of firearms or ammunition.

Source:Introduced Version, Senate Bill 0158

Effective July 1???? Is it possible that this passed completely without fanfare? Or am I much too hopeful. I can't find it in the normal locations on the IN.GOV site for current code. Only in this document. Either way I fired off another email to those involved, whose email addresses I found here: NRA-ILA :: Indiana Campus Carry Bill Needs Your Help! There is no mention of this legislation on Students for Concealed Carry on Campus - ConcealedCampus.com but possibly they missed it as well? I'm trying not to get my hopes up here, but this means the difference between being disarmed in a moderate crime area or not for four or more days a week.

I'm on a commuter campus, and that means there are huge, isolated parking lots. Classes run until 10:00pm five nights a week. We are fortunate that there are only a handful of violent crimes a year, and most of it is petty theft and vandalism, but the fact remains with the layout of our campus, the response time is on the order of ten minutes or more depending on what side of campus the police are on. If someone knows something I don't, please chime in. I'd like to ask everyone else to carbon copy an email to all the email addresses in the NRA-ILA link.

 

[BloodEclipse]

I've been trying to watch SB 12 as it develops and have been voicing my support to our state reps about it, but I can't find any solid info on its progress. I fired off a bulk email after looking at a few sites about it and something caught my eye.....

Source:Introduced Version, Senate Bill 0158

Effective July 1???? Is it possible that this passed completely without fanfare? Or am I much too hopeful. I can't find it in the normal locations on the IN.GOV site for current code. Only in this document. Either way I fired off another email to those involved, whose email addresses I found here: NRA-ILA :: Indiana Campus Carry Bill Needs Your Help! There is no mention of this legislation on Students for Concealed Carry on Campus - ConcealedCampus.com but possibly they missed it as well? I'm trying not to get my hopes up here, but this means the difference between being disarmed in a moderate crime area or not for four or more days a week.

I'm on a commuter campus, and that means there are huge, isolated parking lots. Classes run until 10:00pm five nights a week. We are fortunate that there are only a handful of violent crimes a year, and most of it is petty theft and vandalism, but the fact remains with the layout of our campus, the response time is on the order of ten minutes or more depending on what side of campus the police are on. If someone knows something I don't, please chime in. I'd like to ask everyone else to carbon copy an email to all the email addresses in the NRA-ILA link.

Notice it says 2008. I think SB12 died in committee in the Senate.
Unlike SB11, SB12 never left the Senate. SB11 died in the House in committee.

 

[Serial Crusher]

That totally sucks, I didn't receive the first email about it until January, and immediately sent out my emails. I don't know if there is any hope of starting it moving again, but I plan on compiling a list of emails for both the state house and senate that I will put here as comma separated values for easy carbon copy. Hopefully a few emails can grease the skids.

 

[Serial Crusher]

Here you go, comma separated addresses, in the order of this site: Indiana General Assembly

House:

h36@in.gov,h75@in.gov,h25@in.gov,h89@in.gov,h95@in.gov,h64@in.gov,h6@in.gov,h91@in.gov,h83@in.gov,h68@in.gov,h62@in.gov,h45@in.gov,h84@in.gov,h88@in.gov,h3@in.gov,h41@in.gov,h58@in.gov,h12@in.gov,h69@in.gov,h53@in.gov,h38@in.gov,h72@in.gov,h98@in.gov,h78@in.gov,h49@in.gov,h33@in.gov,h100@in.gov,h86@in.gov,h17@in.gov,h20@in.gov,h13@in.gov,h51@in.gov,h67@in.gov,h8@in.gov,h57@in.gov,h82@in.gov,h47@in.gov,h23@in.gov,h93@in.gov,h5@in.gov,h80@in.gov,h66@in.gov,h42@in.gov,h16@in.gov,h2@in.gov,h30@in.gov,h92@in.gov,h43@in.gov,h27@in.gov,h55@in.gov,h65@in.gov,h1@in.gov,h15@in.gov,h79@in.gov,h50@in.gov,h35@in.gov,h24@in.gov,h63@in.gov,h44@in.gov,h10@in.gov,h81@in.gov,h90@in.gov,h48@in.gov,h7@in.gov,h87@in.gov,h73@in.gov,h31@in.gov,h9@in.gov,h56@in.gov,h61@in.gov,h85@in.gov,h96@in.gov,h94@in.gov,h37@in.gov,h29@in.gov,h77@in.gov,h70@in.gov,h22@in.gov,h54@in.gov,h59@in.gov,h14@in.gov,h4@in.gov,h71@in.gov,h40@in.gov,h11@in.gov,h74@in.gov,h97@in.gov,h99@in.gov,h28@in.gov,h46@in.gov,h39@in.gov,h26@in.gov,h32@in.gov,h34@in.gov,h19@in.gov,h76@in.gov,h60@in.gov,h18@in.gov,h52@in.gov

Senate:

s22@in.gov,s8@in.gov,s50@in.gov,s23@in.gov,s37@in.gov,s34@in.gov,s10@in.gov,s21@in.gov,s5@in.gov,s49@in.gov,s29@in.gov,s17@in.gov,s26@in.gov,s28@in.gov,s18@in.gov,s7@in.gov,s19@in.gov,s48@in.gov,s20@in.gov,s14@in.gov,s25@in.gov,s6@in.gov,s24@in.gov,s42@in.gov,s45@in.gov,s16@in.gov,s30@in.gov,s31@in.gov,s32@in.gov,s9@in.gov,s1@in.gov,s43@in.gov,s27@in.gov,s2@in.gov,s3@in.gov,s40@in.gov,s46@in.gov,s38@in.gov,s44@in.gov,s13@in.gov,s4@in.gov,s33@in.gov,s41@in.gov,s36@in.gov,s39@in.gov,s15@in.gov,s12@in.gov,s35@in.gov,s47@in.gov,s11@in.gov

I've sent off an email to all the addresses in the senate, and got a whole batch of form letters saying that my correspondence has been received, so hopefully most of them are working.

EDIT: All of the return addresses are from the domain iga.in.gov if you feel it's necessary, it would be a simple task to paste the code into notepad and "replace all" with that domain. For now it seems to be working, but I don't know if they're going through restructuring and the forwarding may expire.

EDIT: Sent an email to the house on HB1011 and HB1113, which is what became of SB11. They seem to be working also, received 36 automated responses.

 

[CSK22]

You want to be able to carry on campus? I mean I suppose you could shoot back at the drunken frat guys trying to act tough and wanna be gang banger athletes.

Although I probly hold the same stance you do, that mature responsible citizens are the only ones who should have LTCH, however, not everyone with a gun has one, and not everyone who has a LTCH are mature and responsible.

At Purdue I've witnessed drunk students(and not drunk students) jump out of windows of 3 story buildings, make a put of crushed beer cans and jump into them cutting themselves, throw razor blades in slip in slide pools, spank police officers(yes you heard me) throw water balloons at police officers , hit and spit at professors, pass out while giving speeches, and roll down our steepest street like little kids on a hill while cars are out. Purdue is also commuted to, and lafayette is not the safest place, I work at a homeless shelter in the area and the local black p stones, GDs, and latin kings can be seen in town , but are kept off campus quiet well by the boys in blue(which I also have had contact with working at the shelter). I really have never felt unsafe on campus with all this crap going on.And IU fans(or anyone else) don't hop on this I've heard worse from your school.

I'm all about my freedoms, but why make it ok to have a loaded firearm in some drunken greeks hand? My campus has cops on bikes, and in cars, and on foot(some undercover), and a police station and fire station on campus as do most. Yours might not, and that's a shame if it doesn't. I'm just not sure I'm all for the mix of drugs/alcohol and guns. Sounds a little controlled and I supposed an argument could be that "why not weapons when you have the government" however college kids are just that, kids and are not responsible enough to use discretion. Although i guess that can happen off campus too, I just realize how many alcohol related events happen when your on campus 24/7.


Not trying to rough up your feathers, but from my point of view from a campus resident it doesn't sound like the best idea, and I enjoy carrying. This semester I'm moving away from campus to get away from all the alcohol and so I can have firearms at my apartment. Maybe you have a few views I haven't thought about, and I do enjoy looking forward to hearing them as I find the topic very interesting and have spent many conversations with friends discussing it for us all to just end at my conclusion (from a few universities). So let me know your

 

[Serial Crusher]

I'm on a satellite campus of IU, and yes I'm positive drinking and stupidity happens there. Last year, we had the on campus housing completed, so now there are permanent residents. Just because firearms would be allowed on campus doesn't mean that no other laws apply. Brandishing a firearm is a very serious offense, and is only compounded by inebriation. Perennial drunkenness, fighting and vandalism will all land you a permit suspension for the duration of your probation and beyond. Leaving a firearm accessible at a party, or any other sort of negligence is also punishable as criminal indifference and would likely involve a civil suit as well. This is all overlooking the fact that drugs and alcohol are banned on college campuses by federal mandate. Having laws that aren't enforced is no excuse to limit freedoms. Beyond that, those having an LTCH will still have to meet all the requirements they would normally. This means that by and large all of the people would be over 21 that had handguns, and all else would be closely scrutinized by parents. What this also does is allow for older students such as myself, professors and workers to carry, and enjoy the full protection of Indiana's castle laws. My guess is that there would be a sharp decline in things such as date rape and hazing, bullying and racism. The reason for this is the same reason for southern hospitality, or why people are polite in rural areas. The possibility of actions having repercussions is deterrence enough for most. That is not to advocate violence in any way, to the contrary, having it enter someones mind before they undertake a criminal action is the primary goal, and would likely have much more influence on events than actually shooting back. As I have also said in other places on this board, school shooters or other such lunatics are virtually unpreventable, and there is only one answer to their actions.

 

[CSK22]

There is no law against alcohol being on campus that I know of, which is why a lot of schools have bars on campus, as well as gas stations or super markets on campus that sell alcohol, but of course drugs are illegal.

While I see your point, what is the difference between show a firearm to a friend? And brandishing at a party? I mean assuming you show your new (or old for that matter) friend a firearm and he remembers were you got it from, and if its locked just happens to know where the key is or maybe he doesn't but has enough time to saw it off or break it off or break it open. He either steals it while sober or drunk and uses it. Now for you and I, who are responsible enough not to do this to someone we don't know, we both know there are those people and not all parties are in giant rooms or out at some level ground under lights. The majority of parties are house parties were people are going in and out of peoples rooms and often time theft is a huge problem. Just last school year there was a greek house that had several laptops stolen from it during a party because a few guys from another house ran in while the music was blaring, looked through several rooms till they found an empty one, stuffed them in the room residents back packs and walked out like they lived there. They could do these with firearms regardless if their locked up or not. They don't even have to know where it is, if they are digging through drawers .Things are more likely to happen on campus if there is a catalyst, which a firearm can be for someone who is either unstable or intoxicated, (which if not yourself could be a roommate or a best friend or even girlfriend of either or you)

I do agree school shooters are scary, but I do not think they are unpreventable and i don't think they are unpredictable. Campus internet is monitored, police have cracked down on improving patrols, even at night, we have police officers walk through buildings and patrol down sidewalks through the building side of our campus and between dorms, theyve installed what we call rape lights all over campus about every 15 yards there are little boxes on polls with a bright LED blue light you can see for days if you stair at it with a button that police immediately respond to, i watched a drunk crawling up stadium hill do it from across the street and police were there in 12 seconds, and could be heard in 3 and seen in 8. I remember because i thought it would take them forever and counted from a distance and was impressed.

Also your assuming those under 21 now are actually scrutinized by their parents about firearms, also assuming their scrutinized about life and laws? Those under 21, which is the current drinking age, account for more alcohol consumption on campuses then any other age group, as well as more arrests in the paper for minor consumption, drunk driving, and public intoxication. I also know because I have to sign their probation papers for them to give the city as well.


Now I agree some circumstances are unstoppable, and not every campus is the same, and not every campus has the same technology we have. I think the way the law is now is that there is no law against carrying on campus or owning a firearm on campus but each school is on its own to create its own rules correct? I know its against purdue's rules to have a firearm on campus, but its not against the law of the state is my understanding. Meaning you could get expelled for getting found with one, but the only way you could get arrested is if you refuse to take it off campus.I think it would be fair to allow this to continue if this is the current policy. This gives schools the option, just like different stores or restaurants are given the option depending on ownership or due to safety issues. Freedom isn't just regulating where guns are, its also giving people the choice on were to allow them for more then just liberal or socialist reasoning.

 

[BloodEclipse]

This means that by and large all of the people would be over 21 that had handguns, and all else would be closely scrutinized by parents.

You can have a LTCH at 18. In just over 3 months my daughter will be getting hers.
CSK22 have you read the position of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus ?

Not everyone who is eligible to obtain a LTCH will do so. It has been my experience that the majority of people, who take their personal protection serious, are more responsible and mature than the average citizen.

 

[CSK22]

Yep it is true you can own your LTCH at 18, and own a handgun at 18 through private party trades or sales.

Yes I have seen the site and read it extensively as I used to support this cause.

And while opinions are different, in my perspective, there are just as many neglectful carriers as there are smart and responsible carriers. To a certain extent carrying a handgun is not only practicing and exercising your right to carry as an American citizen but its also protecting yourself from others out there, so is one protecting from just people who do not have a ltch or those who make mistakes or act in poor judgment regardless weather they have one or not? Also not everyone who gets their LTCH or purchases handguns takes their personal protection seriously. I chose to think anyone could hurt me, I've been robbed twice, once at gun point, once with fists. I believe I have the right to assume everyone is guilty until proven innocent without drawing at every single person. Looking down the barrel of a gun is a terrible experience, but getting beat up by 4 bloods was worse(if you don't believe me i have the incident report stub thing I can post it) , so was pointing them out from the back of a squad car and identifying them in court in front of them and their families while my full name and city was read out loud(then again they stole my debit card and drivers license but at the time that didn't phase me). These were both pre LTCH days, I think if I can feel comfortable of all people without a firearm on campus, the rest of the college world can too. I'd rather be unarmed on campus then risk drunken fratboys(who think they can carry without a license or even do have one) or 18, 19, 20, 21, or 22 year old ltch holders acting in negligence running around playing GTA in real life. If you've lived on campus recently, airsoft guns are everywhere and kids are getting stopped and cuffed for shooting people with them from cars. It's just too much to risk for me, but thats just my opinion, and I do respect anyone who opposes my opinion.

I also don't think its safe to say rapes, robberies and assaults will go down. It may prevent your own, but it wouldn't change from the rest of the map. Its just a plot of land with buildings on it, rapist and murderers exist no matter where you go. It happens. Women are less likely then men to have a LTCH, and we with LTCH are a minority anyway. Not everyone will continue to defend themselves because of this rule. Thats not to say just give up, but it is saying some incidents are unpreventable to certain people. And imagine if some guys girl gets raped, she goes back explains what happens he gets pissed and tries to solve the problem with a gun, or at a party some guy keeps hitting on another guys girl, their all intoxicated, whats he going to do? Act in poor judgment, thats what alcohol does. Yes, these incidents will occur in real life outside of school, but why introduce them to a place where drunken behavior is more prevalent and so commonly approved of and encouraged.

 

[bigus_D]

CSK22... you are saying that we should limit the rights of all because some are not responsible enough. This is rediculous in my opinion.

I've been held at gunpoint as well. I didn't like it. It won't happen to me again (college campus or not).

 

[jeremy]

CSK22 my career choice has me living by the gun. I FULLY understand what it is like not only to have one pointed at me but to have one shot at me.

I do attend Campus when I get the chance to further my education at home, when not abroad working on a different type of education. When I am a student because I commute in from Nowhere, Indiana though Lafayette, and West Lafayette you would have me be disarmed and defenselessness for the amount of time I will be in whatever class I am there for. Why? Can the Police guarantee my safety? Can the Campus? How about you? So why can I not have the basic human right to defend myself?

Besides Campus Rules only apply to students and faculty not anyone else. So you are disarming a group of people for what exactly? For their safety from themselves... I just do not see the logic in this answer.

 

[CSK22]

CSK22... you are saying that we should limit the rights of all because some are not responsible enough. This is rediculous in my opinion.

I've been held at gunpoint as well. I didn't like it. It won't happen to me again (college campus or not).

No, that is not what I'm saying. If it came across that way I'm sorry.

What I meant to say is, why give a giant population of people with an already high percentage of accidents and damages with a high percentage of substance abuse the right to have guns on campus? Is it safe for kids in high school to carry around guns at their high school campus? You know saying that 18 year old could carry at their high school? Do you assume their mature enough and in an environment suitable for that? Most college kids I've met are no more mature then that.

If you've been to college you know what I'm talking about in regards to people who basically act like retards.

Not everyone is negligent and I'm sorry you've had to go through what I also have. But if you think your police force at your school is going to ask for your individual back up in a campus emergency I doubt it seeing as you shooting back at someone who's not even shooting at you just adds to the chaos and as we have discussed on here before even if a guy just pulls out a gun while robbing a store and you pull yours our weather you fire or not, you can't always justify shooting him. Just as I feel if you have a gun to your face and your hands in the air I doubt your going to be able to render so and so helpless.


I take pride in having my license to carry, I'm glad I have it and I'm not saying take our freedoms away. It can be stretched that way though and I'm sorry if it seems the wrong way. All I'm saying is i don't think adding guns to an already dangerous environment such as a college campus is worth it. and i mean dangerous in a sense of what people do to themselves.

Regardless public universities are state funded, but you do pay them to educate you and you do pay them to house you in certain cases, as long as your paying them, I'm pretty sure they are in control. And as for private colleges, the same applies.

 

[CSK22]

CSK22 my career choice has me living by the gun. I FULLY understand what it is like not only to have one pointed at me but to have one shot at me.

I do attend Campus when I get the chance to further my education at home, when not abroad working on a different type of education. When I am a student because I commute in from Nowhere, Indiana though Lafayette, and West Lafayette you would have me be disarmed and defenselessness for the amount of time I will be in whatever class I am there for. Why? Can the Police guarantee my safety? Can the Campus? How about you? So why can I not have the basic human right to defend myself?

Besides Campus Rules only apply to students and faculty not anyone else. So you are disarming a group of people for what exactly? For their safety from themselves... I just do not see the logic in this answer.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to defend yourself, I'm sorry no one seems to see my point, in my fair share of experiences weapons on campus haven't seemed the smartest. That's why its my opinion, and I feel its correct only to the certain extent of being around campus. You are entitled to your opinion.

I have a ltch and I use it, I take my chances on campus. Now if it is made legal to carry on campus the odds of an incident occurring are probably very small. Possibly none. I understand that, but I also understand rationaly it could be the other way around and being at some of these parties and around some of these people as most of the readers on the site have been that it could very well be a bad thing.

Purdue has only had a few actual fire arm arrests that I know of (ak-47, and 80some pounds of weed if i remember in one dorm room) and a few handguns from guys fighting over girls. The rest have all been airsoft related.

I made my original comment because I wanted to talk about this and help form my own opinion. I'm thinking and learning through posting, not trying to argue major positions.

 

[CSK22]

Ok, i guess the concept here is actually that what I'm saying sounds very liberal haha and i actually do see that and I see how what I'm saying is sounding anti self protection

All im meaning to say is, me personally, from past experience, would actually feel less safe with firearms being allowed on campus because in my mind i see everyone and their brother bringing up daddys 22 or their 12ga youth pump they got when they turned 13 just because it was legal to have them like they were at home and things spiraling out of country from there. I wouldn't stop going to college because of this, I would certainly cary, to protect me from the crazys just like anywhere else. You can disagree with me on that point, thats fine, do that and wear it. The way i seee it is, Technically(legally) they are allowed on campus, and each school has their own rules from my understanding. Worst that can happen if your seen with it is for someone to ask you to put it away, and if you use it you could get expelled, but I'd rather be expelled then dead. so to me right now its no big deal.

 

[bigus_D]

No, that is not what I'm saying. If it came across that way I'm sorry.

What I meant to say is, why give a giant population of people with an already high percentage of accidents and damages with a high percentage of substance abuse the right to have guns on campus?

This isn't a right needs to be given. Self protection is a FUNDAMENTAL right. You are advocating the taking of this right.

Is it safe for kids in high school to carry around guns at their high school campus? You know saying that 18 year old could carry at their high school? Do you assume their mature enough and in an environment suitable for that? Most college kids I've met are no more mature then that.

I was certainly mature enough when I was 18. But I understand that most kids in high school are not... I believe that the whole 'gun free' zone is plain stupid and is taken advantage of by preditors and/or nut-jobs. I believe that if a person is otherwise eligible to carry, they should be able to carry at the school as well. Of course, brandishing or any other illegal activity should be punished swiftly and promptly.

If you've been to college you know what I'm talking about in regards to people who basically act like retards.

I've been to college... I knew some retards there. I also knew some bright and responsible folks.

Not everyone is negligent and I'm sorry you've had to go through what I also have. But if you think your police force at your school is going to ask for your individual back up in a campus emergency I doubt it seeing as you shooting back at someone who's not even shooting at you just adds to the chaos and as we have discussed on here before even if a guy just pulls out a gun while robbing a store and you pull yours our weather you fire or not, you can't always justify shooting him. Just as I feel if you have a gun to your face and your hands in the air I doubt your going to be able to render so and so helpless.

ummm.. yea. I have no delusion that the police are going to call for my backup. I'm not exactly sure where you came up with that. HOWEVER, if I am sitting in a restaruant and somebody comes in waving a gun around, I won't be waiting for the police to arrive. I will take control of the situation.

If I'm in a store and somebody pulls a gun to rob the place, I will draw, demand compliance, and shoot if neccessary. I believe this would be a justified shooting in Indiana.

If somebody puts a gun in my face, it WILL BE a fight for our lives. I can only hope that I will render 'so and so' helpless.

I take pride in having my license to carry, I'm glad I have it and I'm not saying take our freedoms away. It can be stretched that way though and I'm sorry if it seems the wrong way. All I'm saying is i don't think adding guns to an already dangerous environment such as a college campus is worth it. and i mean dangerous in a sense of what people do to themselves.

It is worth it to me... but then again, my weapon isn't going to jump out of its holster and shoot somebody because it is drunk.

Regardless public universities are state funded, but you do pay them to educate you and you do pay them to house you in certain cases, as long as your paying them, I'm pretty sure they are in control. And as for private colleges, the same applies.

Yep... that is the whole point of the conversation.

 

[CSK22]

You can claim i was advocating it, but i wasn't, just saying its dangerous environment alrady and if guns were added it could have a possibility of being worse, but I would admit I would carry there if it was alloud due to the problems it could have. I understand you disagree, and sounds like i semi offended you with my claim of having them call a citizen in as back up seems to be a familiar theme with some people as if they have what it takes to take control of a situation. All I was stating was my opinion and my reasons for it, your welcome to go your own way. as far as your weapon jumping out of your holster comment there are a lot of people who are not trained in firearms or were and have shot themselves or others or like the guy at lowes and the 1500 whos guns went off by either dropping them or having them fall out of their holsters, but I do agree that is no reason to take away someones rights. I am 100% for 2nd ammendment and its rights, I just think it could add something weird to the equation. sorry my ideas might not hold water, and my logic might not be 100% which is why i was wanting to learn in this thread it is possible I'm wrong I wont argue that I am only human, we all makes mistakes



read my last post before this one, this is my final post in this thread and im done reading it as I feel there is no more need to continue to have fingers pointed at me as if I'm a liberal in conservative clothing. if you don't understand my perspective good day all

 

[jeremy]

No, that is not what I'm saying. If it came across that way I'm sorry.

What I meant to say is, why give a giant population of people with an already high percentage of accidents and damages with a high percentage of substance abuse the right to have guns on campus? Is it safe for kids in high school to carry around guns at their high school campus? You know saying that 18 year old could carry at their high school? Do you assume their mature enough and in an environment suitable for that? Most college kids I've met are no more mature then that.

If you've been to college you know what I'm talking about in regards to people who basically act like retards.

Not everyone is negligent and I'm sorry you've had to go through what I also have. But if you think your police force at your school is going to ask for your individual back up in a campus emergency I doubt it seeing as you shooting back at someone who's not even shooting at you just adds to the chaos and as we have discussed on here before even if a guy just pulls out a gun while robbing a store and you pull yours our weather you fire or not, you can't always justify shooting him. Just as I feel if you have a gun to your face and your hands in the air I doubt your going to be able to render so and so helpless.


I take pride in having my license to carry, I'm glad I have it and I'm not saying take our freedoms away. It can be stretched that way though and I'm sorry if it seems the wrong way. All I'm saying is i don't think adding guns to an already dangerous environment such as a college campus is worth it. and i mean dangerous in a sense of what people do to themselves.

Regardless public universities are state funded, but you do pay them to educate you and you do pay them to house you in certain cases, as long as your paying them, I'm pretty sure they are in control. And as for private colleges, the same applies.

Most of the soldiers you see on the TV are no older than you on your college campus. I would even venture to say that you could take almost any given Platoon of Soldiers (roughly 40 men) and we could drink most Frats into an alcohol induced coma, then go clubbing afterward.

I was allowed to have firearms at my high school growing up, as were most people in my generation. Age and Maturity should not be an exclusion of a right. Treat people as responsible adults they generally will act like responsible adults... Treat people as 4 years old they will act like 4 years old.

That argument is invalid. Next.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to defend yourself, I'm sorry no one seems to see my point, in my fair share of experiences weapons on campus haven't seemed the smartest. That's why its my opinion, and I feel its correct only to the certain extent of being around campus. You are entitled to your opinion.

I have a ltch and I use it, I take my chances on campus. Now if it is made legal to carry on campus the odds of an incident occurring are probably very small. Possibly none. I understand that, but I also understand rationaly it could be the other way around and being at some of these parties and around some of these people as most of the readers on the site have been that it could very well be a bad thing.

Purdue has only had a few actual fire arm arrests that I know of (ak-47, and 80some pounds of weed if i remember in one dorm room) and a few handguns from guys fighting over girls. The rest have all been airsoft related.

I made my original comment because I wanted to talk about this and help form my own opinion. I'm thinking and learning through posting, not trying to argue major positions.

You are saying exactly that I do not have a right to defend MYSELF!

Ok, i guess the concept here is actually that what I'm saying sounds very liberal haha and i actually do see that and I see how what I'm saying is sounding anti self protection

All im meaning to say is, me personally, from past experience, would actually feel less safe with firearms being allowed on campus because in my mind i see everyone and their brother bringing up daddys 22 or their 12ga youth pump they got when they turned 13 just because it was legal to have them like they were at home and things spiraling out of country from there. I wouldn't stop going to college because of this, I would certainly cary, to protect me from the crazys just like anywhere else. You can disagree with me on that point, thats fine, do that and wear it. The way i seee it is, Technically(legally) they are allowed on campus, and each school has their own rules from my understanding. Worst that can happen if your seen with it is for someone to ask you to put it away, and if you use it you could get expelled, but I'd rather be expelled then dead. so to me right now its no big deal.

Don't care whether liberal or conservative.

Worst than can happen is Virginia Tech.
It is very hard for me to schedule live classes with my career choice. I can not afford to be expelled. Nor can I afford to be dead either...

 

[jeremy]

read my last post before this one, this is my final post in this thread and im done reading it as I feel there is no more need to continue to have fingers pointed at me as if I'm a liberal in conservative clothing. if you don't understand my perspective good day all

If you are truly wanting to learn then discuss, not argue or inflame a conversation.

 

[CSK22]

I wasn't trying to inflame, or make fun of, or be mean to anyone. Its obvious I've already had a poor time explaining myself I must not be communicating well today. Part of learning or discussing can be sticking your opinion out there and I must have rubbed some people wrong. Even reading through I don't see me arguing or inflaming, then again that might be a background difference.


A little embarrassed about this thread as I thought I had a valid opinion. Its obvious I stepped on all your toes, and its possible I didn't think every side through, my apologies. I'm very much so a supporter of the second amendment, our armed forces, and our police force, for whatever reason my opinion didn't include much of the second amendment. tells you how well thought it was

 

[jeremy]

No you did not step on my toes.

Once you start limiting what someone can do for their safety it is hard to stop that ball rolling...

Anti-stab Knives in Brittan... For your safety...
There is even a couple of towns in the British Ilse that wants to outlaw fire extinguishers... For you safety of course