Bounty hunters storm gym

[tyrajam]

Boy am I glad I don't live in Florida! Eight bounty hunters looking for a fugitive stormed a men's locker room with guns drawn. Under Florida state law, bounty hunters can enter any 3rd party residence without permission or a warrant if they think a suspect is there. You'd think Federal law trumps state and this would be a clear 4th amendment violation, but its been going on for over 100 years. I don't know how Florida passes a "castle doctrine", yet lets this law stay on the books, seems like they are putting all of the pieces in place for a shootout.
Exclusive: Members Terrified As Bounty Hunters Storm Posh Miami Beach Gym « CBS Miami

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You'd think Federal law trumps state and this would be a clear 4th amendment violation,

4th Amendment? How? There is no state action. It's private contract.

If you want to read more about bounty hunters I suggest this article from the University of Houston School of Law: Drimmer, Jonathan. 1996. "When Man Hunts Man: The Rights and Duties of Bounty Hunters in the American Criminal Justice System." Houston Law Review 33

 

[BogWalker]

Wow, how is any part of that legal? Never new bounty hunters got such a pass on the law.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Wow, how is any part of that legal?

Contract.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Do they all carry paintball guns?

 

[mrjarrell]

Just means you can shoot them like you would any other home invader. Don't lose hope. While they can do things cops can't, they lack the protections that cops enjoy.

 

[92ThoStro]

Incorrect MrJ.....

I guess you have to.say contract a few more times kirk before they get it.

 

[mrjarrell]

Incorrect MrJ.....

I guess you have to.say contract a few more times kirk before they get it.

How so? They have no immunity and do not enjoy the powers or protections that cops do. They're just civilians acting like storm troopers. Kick in an innocent persons door and get shot? Tough. It's still home invasion unless the bail jumper they're looking for is there. Their contract is just so much paper in the face of my right to protect myself.

 

[Pinchaser]

Just means you can shoot them like you would any other home invader. Don't lose hope. While they can do things cops can't, they lack the protections that cops enjoy.

It may signal the apocalypse but I find myself in agreement with mrjarrell for the 2nd time. Bounty Hunters do have the power to do things that cops can't but they do so knowing that they have no police protections while doing them. They survive with overwhelming force and surprise. If you blow them away while they are busting down your door, or at any other time while they are invading your domicile or curtilage, whether they've identified themselves or not, the cops show up, wink at you for a job well done, and collect the corpses.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Contract.

Problem is the contract does not involve the people who's life they distressed and interrupted.

So how can that "contract" be enforced on people who are no way involved?

 

[AD Marc]

It can't, and i suspect they'll find while they didn't do anything criminal, they will likely find themselves on the wrong side of a civil suit for their actions.

 

[tyrajam]

4th Amendment? How? There is no state action. It's private contract.

If you want to read more about bounty hunters I suggest this article from the University of Houston School of Law: Drimmer, Jonathan. 1996. "When Man Hunts Man: The Rights and Duties of Bounty Hunters in the American Criminal Justice System." Houston Law Review 33

The private contract is between the bail jumper and the bounty hunter. I believe it becomes a 4th amendment issue when the state passes a law that any bounty hunter can register and get permission from the state to force entry, without a warrant, into a 3rd party home if they believe the suspect is there.

So because Billy Bob signed a contract, the state can grant his pursuers the right to break into YOUR home if they think he is there?

 

[jbombelli]

The private contract is between the bail jumper and the bounty hunter. I believe it becomes a 4th amendment issue when the state passes a law that any bounty hunter can register and get permission from the state to force entry, without a warrant, into a 3rd party home if they believe the suspect is there.

So because Billy Bob signed a contract, the state can grant his pursuers the right to break into YOUR home if they think he is there?

They don't work for the state. They work for the bondsman that PUT UP THE MONEY to get their guy OUT OF JAIL, in return for which he promised to appear and gave up certain rights. BILLY BOB gave them the permission to go wherever he is. This is not a 4th Amendment issue.

And yes, if they have good reason to think Billy Bob is in YOUR home, then they can certainly come in. Most often they're going to do everything they can to make damned certain he is in your home before they come in, though. However, just like with the police, sometimes they fail to do their due diligence, in which case they don't have the same protections as the police. Bail Enforcement Agents have gone to prison for just this sort of thing in the past, and eventually it will surely happen again. But this is the risk they take when they don't make absolutely sure their target is in a particular place, and they don't choose to err on the side of caution.

 

[tyrajam]

They work for the bondsman that PUT UP THE MONEY to get their guy OUT OF JAIL, in return for which he promised to appear and gave up certain rights.

I understand this completely. That is why they can kick down the door of Billy Bob's trailer and it is all hunky dory. But a third party has not signed an agreement with them, so bounty hunters have no special rights when dealing with a third party in most states. But not so in Florida.

BILLY BOB gave them the permission to go wherever he is. This is not a 4th Amendment issue.

Nobody can give one party permission to go into another parties home. But not so in Florida.

They don't work for the state.

But each state licenses the agent, and under the law in Florida this license allows them to break into a third party residence who has not signed a contract. It is mind boggling to me.

 

[jbombelli]

I understand this completely. That is why they can kick down the door of Billy Bob's trailer and it is all hunky dory. But a third party has not signed an agreement with them, so bounty hunters have no special rights when dealing with a third party in most states. But not so in Florida.

Not so in most states. Including to the best of my knowledge, Indiana.

Nobody can give one party permission to go into another parties home. But not so in Florida.

Not so in most states. Including to the best of my knowledge, Indiana.

But each state licenses the agent, and under the law in Florida this license allows them to break into a third party residence who has not signed a contract. It is mind boggling to me.

The state licenses barbers and beauticians, too. That doesn't mean they work for the state. The recovery agent doesn't represent the state and isn't paid by the state. He works for and is paid by the bondsman who hired him.

If you don't like it, make sure you're not harboring fugitives in your home.

 

[tyrajam]

Not so in most states. Including to the best of my knowledge, Indiana.

Everything I have read has said the exact opposite. Like,
"A bounty hunter has a lot of leeway when it comes to making arrests. He may go into a bail-skipper's home - without a search or arrest warrant - if there's a good reason to believe the skipper is in the home. He can't, however, enter someone else's home unless there's a warrant or the owner's permission to enter." (Skipping Bail? A Bounty Hunter Will Likely Follow - Lawyers.com) or,
"Keep in mind that this power extends only to the fugitive’s own house. The situation is very different if we’re talking about the house of a third party. Virtually every state to have considered the issue has decided that a bail bondsman does not have the right to enter into the house of another person in order to seize a bail jumper. First of all, other people are not parties to the bail contract, so they never agreed to give the bondsman extraordinary powers, such as the ability to enter their house." (Legal Lad : Bounty Hunter Laws :: Quick and Dirty Tips ™)

I know these are not DOJ links, but everything I have found has said the same thing.

If you don't like it, make sure you're not harboring fugitives in your home.

Ah yes, the old if you have nothing to hide then you don't mind if we... excuse.

I'm surprised anyone would think a bail jumper's contract should allow the agent to kick in someone else's door. That's not a very libertarian view of property rights.