BG in your house

[spasmo]

If a BG was in your house or even anywhere else but threatening you, would you shoot to kill or to wound? I think about this all the time. I am not sure how I could live with taking someone's life. But if you just maimed him, he'd probably turn around and sue since that's the state of mind a lot of people have now a days. If he were actually hurting my daughter though or if I thought she were in danger, I probably would shoot to kill and not hesitate. At least I hope I wouldn't hesitate.

 

[Lars]

My understanding of Indiana castle doctrine is that an individual inside your home, while in the commission of a crime has no legal recourse against the homeowner for any injuries sustained while in commission of that crime.

Kirk can correct me if my understanding of that is wrong, but I take that to mean if he cuts his arm off while trying to punch through my sliding glass doors he can't sue me for the injuries he sustains. I'd imagine being shot in self defense by the home owner is the same.

That said, I'm going to Shoot to Stop the person. Which means center mass, with a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with OO buckshot if at all possible, or one or more shots with a 9mm until he's no longer doing something I deem threatening to myself or my family.

 

[4sarge]

If a BG was in your house or even anywhere else but threatening you, would you shoot to kill or to wound? I think about this all the time. I am not sure how I could live with taking someone's life. But if you just maimed him, he'd probably turn around and sue since that's the state of mind a lot of people have now a days. If he were actually hurting my daughter though or if I thought she were in danger, I probably would shoot to kill and not hesitate. At least I hope I wouldn't hesitate.

I shoot to stop the threat (Never to kill anyone), center mass, head or any area that I hit. Warning or wounding shots are not attempted by me. BG's will be shot until I know that the threat has subsided. Hesitation is not suggested or advised when protecting yourself or anyone else when you or they are in imminent danger.

 

[Greg.B]

I agree with W9ZEB; I would shoot until the threat was stopped. Chances are very good that the center of mass shots required to stop the threat are going to be fatal, but possibly not. However it turns out after that, remember that the entire incident was instigated by the BG, and you have the right to protect yourself and your family.

 

[Pami]

If I were holding a gun and having to make the decision to shoot an intruder, I'd imagine I'd probably shoot to stop the threat.

1) It means Lars isn't home, or the intruder somehow got past him and to me. Both options would leave me scared witless and training would take over.
2) I don't have the proper mindset yet to think through and deal with the consequences of "after" so my brain would effectively shut off and I would do what I've been told to do and have trained to do, because that's how I react to stress. I either freeze up completely (in which case, I'm the dead body, and this is no longer a discussion), or my brain shuts off and my body reacts.

I don't know how accurate I'd be though. I still shoot low, so if I were to aim for his head, I'd likely hit his throat. If I aim CoM, he'd get a bad belly wound. And Lars has said more than once that if I were in that situation, I'd probably be the kind of person who would keep pulling the trigger until someone took the gun out of my hand. And I don't think that's too terribly far from the truth.

Which leads me to... I need more training and more practice to learn to know when to stop.

 

[indyjoe]

If a BG was in your house or even anywhere else but threatening you, would you shoot to kill or to wound? I think about this all the time. I am not sure how I could live with taking someone's life. But if you just maimed him, he'd probably turn around and sue since that's the state of mind a lot of people have now a days. If he were actually hurting my daughter though or if I thought she were in danger, I probably would shoot to kill and not hesitate. At least I hope I wouldn't hesitate.

No hesitation. If I am shooting him, I am shooting to stop. That means center of mass. Starting with twice. If he doesn't stop, I'm firing another couple. If he is still coming, I'm going for head and hope one of my many shots connects with the head. None of this is to kill, it is to stop.

The "shoot to wound" is planning to miss. You will not shoot as good as you do at the range. Not even close. One thing we did was sprint 50 yards away from the line, then sprint back to the line and immediately draw and engage targets. Your groups are much worse. You are breathing hard. It is good practice and somewhat simulates being excited and shooting under duress.

Besides, is shooting to wound a leg shot? Nice the femoral artery and he is dead in 2 minutes anyway.

 

[Bigum1969]

I think the whole idea of shooting to wound or mame would be difficult if you were actually confronted with the horrible situation of a bad guy in your house. Nerves and adrenaline would take over. As Pami said, you'd probabably do what you've been trained to do.

 

[Scutter01]

While those are all good answers, I think since she posted this in the Women's forum, Spasmo is really looking to hear what women would do. There's no doubt in my mind that most women have a different mindset than men. I'd be interested in their responses as well.

(Pami, I'm not glossing over your response.)

 

[spasmo]

In my martial arts training, I'm taught that I need to know what I want the outcome to be before it even begins. I always go for the maiming part in my head but always have this fear in the back of my mind that 1) I can get sued which maybe I can't (after reading the posts) or 2) he'll come back if he can and then catch me when I'm off guard.

 

[Pami]

While those are all good answers, I think since she posted this in the Women's forum, Spasmo is really looking to hear what women would do. There's no doubt in my mind that most women have a different mindset than men. I'd be interested in their responses as well.

(Pami, I'm not glossing over your response.)

Thank you, and yes, we'd like to keep this forum focused on how women react to situations, and what we need to do to train differently than men. Most women these days aren't raised to be the protectors but rather the protected, and so yeah, our mindset is a little different sometimes. Now when children get involved... that's a completely different story.

 

[hoosiertriangle]

W9ZEB

You are correct with respect to Indiana Castle Doctrine that civil liability is removed if the defense is justified. This also applies to use of deadly force when else authorized. As another note, the castle doctrine applies to your "curtlidge" or the area which is associated with your home (like the attached garage and probably even the shed out back). "f the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle." 35-41-3-2(b)(2)

 

[Ri22o]

There's no doubt in my mind that most women have a different mindset than men. I'd be interested in their responses as well.

I would be interested to hear this as well.

I talked with my girlfriend one night, and she told me that she would probably 'shoot them in the leg or something.' She also said some other things that I WTF'd at. This is when I informed her that you don't shoot to wound, you shoot to stop.

 

[Bigum1969]

Thank you, and yes, we'd like to keep this forum focused on how women react to situations, and what we need to do to train differently than men. Most women these days aren't raised to be the protectors but rather the protected, and so yeah, our mindset is a little different sometimes. Now when children get involved... that's a completely different story.

Sorry about that. My bad.

 

[Annie Oakley]

I shoot primarily for fun. That being said all of my practice and training has been focused on accuracy and always in the back of my mind I am seeing a human figure that needs to be stopped. After living alone in the middle of nowhere after I was widowed it dawned on me that there was no one else to depend on . My mindset became "if they don't belong here and they are a threat they are going to be shot". I would never shoot as a warning or to wound. If the situation is bad enough for me to be shooting the BG is dead. It didn't take me long to realize that although life is precious whatever needs to be done to protect the innocent is what I will do. If you can't look at it that way, you should not pick up the weapon, IMHO. Even now that I am remarried I don't expect anyone else to protect me. If there is a problem and hubby is home we will be shoulder to shoulder.

 

[Scutter01]

After living alone in the middle of nowhere after I was widowed it dawned on me that there was no one else to depend on .

That moment of realization is startling. I've only ever had that once (the first time I solo'ed an aircraft), but it was profound and affected me deeply.

 

[4sarge]

My mindset became "if they don't belong here and they are a threat they are going to be shot". I would never shoot as a warning or to wound. If the situation is bad enough for me to be shooting the BG is dead. It didn't take me long to realize that although life is precious whatever needs to be done to protect the innocent is what I will do.If you can't look at it that way, you should not pick up the weapon

+1 Proper Mindset

 

[indyjoe]

I also didn't realize what forum we were in. (I'm addicted to the new posts feature...)

One thing I've always found interesting is the point brought up earlier in the threat about it being different with kids. I've talked with many women just learning to shoot (no always for self defense, most just for fun). When discussion turns to self defense, there is often some uncertainty if they could take the shot if it is just protecting themselves, even when talking with mothers.

However, we I asked what happens when the BG goes after the kids, the response is almost 100% "Oh, he's gonna die."

 

[Pami]

I also didn't realize what forum we were in. (I'm addicted to the new posts feature...)

Me, too. But the forum is listed out to the right side of the post link. You just have to get yourself in the habit of noticing it.

One thing I've always found interesting is the point brought up earlier in the threat about it being different with kids. I've talked with many women just learning to shoot (no always for self defense, most just for fun). When discussion turns to self defense, there is often some uncertainty if they could take the shot if it is just protecting themselves, even when talking with mothers.

However, we I asked what happens when the BG goes after the kids, the response is almost 100% "Oh, he's gonna die."

It goes back to that whole mindset thing. When children become involved, I think, a woman armed with nothing but her teeth and fingernails becomes a lot more dangerous than a BG with a gun (in short range, anyway). She's a lot more determined to make sure the kids don't get hurt. Kind of like that teacher at the VT shooting that tried to buy time for the kids in his classroom by standing in front of the door.

 

[Scutter01]

Me, too. But the forum is listed out to the right side of the post link. You just have to get yourself in the habit of noticing it.

It's also in the URL in the address bar, so you have an easy reference if you've already clicked on the link.

 

[indyjoe]

It goes back to that whole mindset thing. When children become involved, I think, a woman armed with nothing but her teeth and fingernails becomes a lot more dangerous than a BG with a gun (in short range, anyway). She's a lot more determined to make sure the kids don't get hurt. Kind of like that teacher at the VT shooting that tried to buy time for the kids in his classroom by standing in front of the door.

And I don't think there is a problem with being a different mindset between solo self-defense and protecting someone else. If your protecting yourself, the main goal is not to die. If you are protecting others, the main goal is to stop the threat. If you die in the process, but it protects the kids, subconsciously that is a price willing to be paid.