Kinda a long shot I suppose but I was wondering if anyone here is particularly knowledgeable in WW2 1911's. I'm very interested in adding one to my collection and I'm wondering what to look out for. I do have several things cover such as the round msh, the short trigger, the longer beavertail the inspectors marks. I'm wondering how to tell if it has been refinished. Also looking for a little more info on some of the markings. If anyone can shed some light for me I'd be forever grateful.
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Anyone knowledgeable in WW2 1911's
- Thread starter Treel98
- Start date
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Paging the Mouse… Also I bet there might be some one at the CMP store that may be willing to share some knowledge.
Fallschirmjaeger
Marksman
This website was helpful to me back when I was getting into collecting some of the military 1911a1s:
There are some really good books out there, too: One by Joe Poyer, which is reasonable and available on Amazon and other places. I had another really good one by Charles Clawson, but those are now extremely hard to find and absurdly espensive.
Index of M1911 and M1911A1 Manufactures
coolgunsite.com
There are some really good books out there, too: One by Joe Poyer, which is reasonable and available on Amazon and other places. I had another really good one by Charles Clawson, but those are now extremely hard to find and absurdly espensive.
Or @Leadeye he's our resident historian.
The thing about USGI 1911s is that they can be all over the place in terms of parts fitted. Some that the CMP sold had later slides fit and were really a mish-mash of parts, but they were still USGI. The two that I have are a Remington Rand with a Colt slide and a Colt with an RR slide. The internals on both frames and both slides are correct for that manufacturer but somewhere in the past, they got different slides than they came from the factory with.
I've read that at times, when units would clean batches of 1911s, that they were not picky about how they assembled them from the piles of parts. The patina on my mismatched pair is consistent from gun to gun, so they will stay mismatched.
I've read that at times, when units would clean batches of 1911s, that they were not picky about how they assembled them from the piles of parts. The patina on my mismatched pair is consistent from gun to gun, so they will stay mismatched.
Just keep your checkbook handy. Lots of info above, and lots of companies making 1911's that are close to WW2 specs.
if it is a collector model you seek, take your time and learn about them. Read, and even hit up 1911 Forums.
I 've owned probably 10 different models, and finishes. They all have little issues, but can be workable. Most fired pretty decent if you prep the firearm, and use quality magazines. Ammo quality is most important. Good luck, send pics when you decide.
if it is a collector model you seek, take your time and learn about them. Read, and even hit up 1911 Forums.
I 've owned probably 10 different models, and finishes. They all have little issues, but can be workable. Most fired pretty decent if you prep the firearm, and use quality magazines. Ammo quality is most important. Good luck, send pics when you decide.
Fallschirmjaeger
Marksman
They can be addicting, and I wish the OP the best of luck in his quest. My last remaining GI gun is a Remington Rand SA arsenal rebuild. The best shooting one I ever had was a beautiful original condition Union Switch & Signal. It was had so much collector value I ended up selling it to a buddy because I almost felt guilty shooting it.
Honestly I would be happy with one that was mix matched. I'm just wanting to make sure that the finish is original and the major parts in it are period correct. The last thing I want is one that has been refinished or sportserised, I found a few online that look pretty correct, the serial numbers are correct, the proof marks on the frame and slide are correct, the arsenal inspectors mark is there and correct, as well as the markings on the barrel.The thing about USGI 1911s is that they can be all over the place in terms of parts fitted. Some that the CMP sold had later slides fit and were really a mish-mash of parts, but they were still USGI. The two that I have are a Remington Rand with a Colt slide and a Colt with an RR slide. The internals on both frames and both slides are correct for that manufacturer but somewhere in the past, they got different slides than they came from the factory with.
I've read that at times, when units would clean batches of 1911s, that they were not picky about how they assembled them from the piles of parts. The patina on my mismatched pair is consistent from gun to gun, so they will stay mismatched.
A few things to look for when evaluating the finish:
Look very, very closely at the markings. When originally applied they were crisp and clean. If they are washed out with rounded edges then the gun was polished when it was refinished.
The finish on the parts should be a relatively close match, but should also show signs of wear. The newest of the WWII guns are around 80 years old, so if the finish looks new it probably is. Even an old finish that is still in great shape will show quite a lot of color variation if you look at it with a magnifying glass, it is only with the naked eye that it looks more uniform. A new finish looks uniform with a magnifying glass. Considering what you said you want though, you should expect to get one that shows a fair amount of wear to the naked eye unless you want to break the bank.
The original parkerized finish took on a greenish tint as it absorbed oils over the years. Newer finishes tend to lack that. Looking at a lot of examples will help you get used to it.
Also consider that the pistols made before WWII were often refurbished and then reissued for WWII, so early guns and parts are still correct for WWII even if they are refinished or mix-masters.
And since a thread is worthless without pics, here is my example of a 1913 made pistol that was refinished at Springfield Armory before WWII. It's not pretty, but I love it. It also gives you an idea of what a really old refinish with a lot of honest wear looks like. Hope this helps, and good luck!
Fallschirmjaeger
Marksman
OP- that Ithaca looks good to me. It may or may not have a mix of small parts from different 1911 manufacturers, like a ton of these guns do. Some of the books or that website I posted can give you more info on that.
Unless you are in the market for a true collector (if so, get that wallet out!), as you noted, most true GI guns ended up becoming mixmasters just by virtue of armorers and troops swapping out small parts without a second thought during the service life of the gun. Just like with M1 carbines. Probably foxhole buddies stripped down their 1911s and even swapped whole slide assemblies when putting them back together and never thought anything about it. I think it adds to the true historical character of these old guns.
A true GI gun is much more likely to be a mixmaster instead of the very pricey all-matching collector guns that either saw very little use in military service or were painstakingly rebuilt to become all-matching specimens for collecting purposes.
Unless you are in the market for a true collector (if so, get that wallet out!), as you noted, most true GI guns ended up becoming mixmasters just by virtue of armorers and troops swapping out small parts without a second thought during the service life of the gun. Just like with M1 carbines. Probably foxhole buddies stripped down their 1911s and even swapped whole slide assemblies when putting them back together and never thought anything about it. I think it adds to the true historical character of these old guns.
A true GI gun is much more likely to be a mixmaster instead of the very pricey all-matching collector guns that either saw very little use in military service or were painstakingly rebuilt to become all-matching specimens for collecting purposes.
I just noticed that same scene with the white dot sights last weekend. Thought I was seeing things.
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