ALMOST 1,000,000,000 GUNS REGISTERED

[Twangbanger]

Ok. Let's say you are right, they've used AI to digitize all the paper records into a searchable database and scanned it all in to your 5 minute database. Then they illegally use the database to find out I bought a gun at an FFL last year.

I've got a lot of guns. Some I bought from an FFL, some I didn't. I've given some to family members, I've sold a couple, I've traded others. So the database says I bought that gun last year. Now what? What do you do with that information and why?

I know you're talking present tense, but in the future tense, let's say you traded it off in an impromptu parking lot deal to someone who has a LTCH and doesn't look like an axe murderer ("F.U. Joe Biden")...but universal 4473 w/ mandatory stolen/boat accident reporting became law 18 months ago, and your gun got taken off a criminal by police. It's not hard to see how this comes to your doorstep in a way people might be justifiably concerned about.

Yes, I realize they'll probably "fix" the database law concurrently with passing the other legislation, and I know there's an act of noncompliance there which makes the person culpable. But some people do see principled noncompliance with laws to be justified (cf. refugee outrage thread). They would like to keep the "Let's Go Brandon" option as viable as possible, especially for guns they've had for years and years. And I get that.

 

[BigRed]

ATFE has long admitted to their illegal registry. The first time was in an interview on a defunct show called Day One with Forrest Sawyer in 1995.

Director Noble admitted to the project on the show. ATFE has never retracted that admission.

Given atf agents take an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the united States and then soemd their years shredding it, I must say I find this shocking.

 

[BigRed]

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I know you're talking present tense, but in the future tense, let's say you traded it off in an impromptu parking lot deal to someone who has a LTCH and doesn't look like an axe murderer ("F.U. Joe Biden")...but universal 4473 w/ mandatory stolen/boat accident reporting became law 18 months ago, and your gun got taken off a criminal by police. It's not hard to see how this comes to your doorstep in a way people might be justifiably concerned about.

Yes, I realize they'll probably "fix" the database law concurrently with passing the other legislation, and I know there's an act of noncompliance there which makes the person culpable. But some people do see principled noncompliance with laws to be justified (cf. refugee outrage thread). They would like to keep the "Let's Go Brandon" option as viable as possible, especially for guns they've had for years and years. And I get that.

We can spin dystopian futures without end, but hypotheticals are just that and if we are to that point we've got bigger issues.

I'd be fine if they simply set a dispose date on records. Seems like that may allay some fears. What the statute of limitations for straw purchases?

 

[BigRed]

We can spin dystopian futures without end, but hypotheticals are just that and if we are to that point we've got bigger issues.

I'd be fine if they simply set a dispose date on records. Seems like that may allay some fears. What the statute of limitations for straw purchases?

I would be fine with simply adhering to the limitations placed on state in the second amendment.

 

[DadSmith]

We can spin dystopian futures without end, but hypotheticals are just that and if we are to that point we've got bigger issues.

I'd be fine if they simply set a dispose date on records. Seems like that may allay some fears. What the statute of limitations for straw purchases?

If a straw purchase is considered NFA violation I think I read NFA violation has 3 year statute of limitations. I am not sure that is correct just something I read in the past.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

We can spin dystopian futures without end, but hypotheticals are just that and if we are to that point we've got bigger issues.

I'd be fine if they simply set a dispose date on records. Seems like that may allay some fears. What the statute of limitations for straw purchases?

5 years.

 

[BE Mike]

Ok. Let's say you are right, they've used AI to digitize all the paper records into a searchable database and scanned it all in to your 5 minute database. Then they illegally use the database to find out I bought a gun at an FFL last year.

I've got a lot of guns. Some I bought from an FFL, some I didn't. I've given some to family members, I've sold a couple, I've traded others. So the database says I bought that gun last year. Now what? What do you do with that information and why?

The worst case scenario is that that gun is made illegal to own. You are not aware of the new law or ignore it and don't turn it in as required by law. "They" get a search warrant to search for that gun, based upon information from the LIST and lo and behold they find that you have several other guns that have been outlawed! You not only lose those guns, you get charged criminally. Goodbye job; goodbye savings (lawyers cost money) and possibly; goodbye freedom!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The worst case scenario is that that gun is made illegal to own. You are not aware of the new law or ignore it and don't turn it in as required by law. "They" get a search warrant to search for that gun, based upon information from the LIST and lo and behold they find that you have several other guns that have been outlawed! You not only lose those guns, you get charged criminally. Goodbye job; goodbye savings (lawyers cost money) and possibly; goodbye freedom!

x

We can spin dystopian futures without end, but hypotheticals are just that and if we are to that point we've got bigger issues.

 

[BE Mike]

x

It's not hypothetical for some folks living in the U.S. Gun control like that is already here! Not in Indiana, but look at California, etc. https://www.pe.com/2021/10/09/ex-ga...uilty-for-2nd-time-of-illegal-firearms-sales/

 

[gregr]

Ok. Let's say you are right, they've used AI to digitize all the paper records into a searchable database and scanned it all in to your 5 minute database. Then they illegally use the database to find out I bought a gun at an FFL last year.

I've got a lot of guns. Some I bought from an FFL, some I didn't. I've given some to family members, I've sold a couple, I've traded others. So the database says I bought that gun last year. Now what? What do you do with that information and why?

I believe the point to all of this is the principle. It`s illegal for the government to have this registry. And the obvious point of a gun registry is for future confiscation.

 

[drillsgt]

I believe the point to all of this is the principle. It`s illegal for the government to have this registry. And the obvious point of a gun registry is for future confiscation.

I'm not worried about the potential for abuse BBI says it's all good. Nevermind the fact they are as emboldened now as they have ever been, changing definitions of things on the fly etc. The definition of a registry is pretty simple and doesn't even involve it being 'searchable'.

 

[tbhausen]

We can spin dystopian futures without end, but hypotheticals are just that and if we are to that point we've got bigger issues.

I'd be fine if they simply set a dispose date on records. Seems like that may allay some fears. What the statute of limitations for straw purchases?

“Dispose dates” are of zero comfort to me. I simply don’t trust them to ever dispose of records or be able to verifiably and conclusively prove that they have done so.

 

[tbhausen]

The worst case scenario is that that gun is made illegal to own. You are not aware of the new law or ignore it and don't turn it in as required by law. "They" get a search warrant to search for that gun, based upon information from the LIST and lo and behold they find that you have several other guns that have been outlawed! You not only lose those guns, you get charged criminally. Goodbye job; goodbye savings (lawyers cost money) and possibly; goodbye freedom!

Not to mention they’ll rip the **** out of your house while doing so.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm not worried about the potential for abuse BBI says it's all good. Nevermind the fact they are as emboldened now as they have ever been, changing definitions of things on the fly etc. The definition of a registry is pretty simple and doesn't even involve it being 'searchable'.

Interesting. Where did I say it was all good? What I said is it's not a registry, and it isn't. Sales records =/= a registry, given there's no mandate to update anyone when I dispose of a gun. You can find out I bought it, *maybe*, but unless I tell you where it is now that's not going to get you far. As you say, the definition is pretty simple. None of my guns are 'registered', but all my vehicles that go on public roads are. I annually verify my ownership, verify my address, etc. That's a registry.

If it gets to the point where it's searched and "they" are coming to your house with a warrant, the 'registry' isn't the issue any longer, is it? You've got bigger fish to fry. Or bigger complaints to complain online about, I suppose. Pretty silly to think you're difficult to identify as a gun owner without the 'registry' as well. As you post on a gun forum. Probably using credit cards for 'sporting goods'. With a hunting license and LTCH.

 

[Leo]

I have had County deputies at my door over a stolen handgun. I bought a used Revolver at a legitimate shop that was open for years. The owner and his wife ran a nice, honest business, great people.

I used it for IHMSA matches in 4 states. I traded it back in at the same shop. He resold it, and the new owner took it to the Gary Police Station (for reasons unknown). If I did not have the original receipt, I am sure I would have spent a night in jail. I shudder to think if for some reason a Michigan or Illinois LEO would have ran the serial number. May as well add Ohio to the list. I am glad it never got to the FBI level of investigation.

Long story short, the pistol was stolen by the original owners brother and he traded it at that shop.

 

[DadSmith]

 

[gregr]

Interesting. Where did I say it was all good? What I said is it's not a registry, and it isn't. Sales records =/= a registry, given there's no mandate to update anyone when I dispose of a gun. You can find out I bought it, *maybe*, but unless I tell you where it is now that's not going to get you far. As you say, the definition is pretty simple. None of my guns are 'registered', but all my vehicles that go on public roads are. I annually verify my ownership, verify my address, etc. That's a registry.

If it gets to the point where it's searched and "they" are coming to your house with a warrant, the 'registry' isn't the issue any longer, is it? You've got bigger fish to fry. Or bigger complaints to complain online about, I suppose. Pretty silly to think you're difficult to identify as a gun owner without the 'registry' as well. As you post on a gun forum. Probably using credit cards for 'sporting goods'. With a hunting license and LTCH.

Does any part of the fact that this is illegal have any meaning to you? It doesn`t matter if they can do this, or see that, or find something the other. This is illegal, it`s a threat to the country, and why isn`t there any accountability? Perhaps because some simply poo-poo the importance of it? Damn...

 

[gregr]

This is illegal, and the ongoing registry only preps us for more, further intrusive atf illegal activities, is detrimental to the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding U.S. citizens. Period. And some here ask what the problem is?

Know your friends, and separate them from some who claim to be your friends, but then won`t even acknowledge illegal government activity, or, the resulting assaults on your constitutional rights. There`s too much at stake.

 

[BigRed]

Little Johnny was in his Kindergarten class when the teacher asked the children what their fathers did for a living.

All the typical answers came up - fireman, policeman, salesman. Johnny was being uncharacteristically quiet, and so the teacher asked him about his father.

"My father's an exotic dancer in a gay cabaret and takes off all his clothes in front of other men. Sometimes, if the offer's really good, he'll go out to the alley with some customer and take it up the ***."

The teacher hurriedly set the other children to work on some coloring in and took little Johnny aside to ask him "Is that really true about your father?"

"No," said Johnny, "he really works for atf, but I was too embarrassed to say".