Advice needed on LTC appeal

[-ski-]

I'm new to the site, and I've looked over some of the threads on here. I'm glad you all are here, as I can use some advice.

On March 1, 2010 I applied for a lifetime LTC. Got printed and finished the application on March 31. I marked "yes" to the box marked "Have you ever been treated for psychiatric health care or an emotional or mental illness." After a few weeks, I received a letter requesting a statement from my treating psychologist.

I received six to eight sessions of psychotherapy in 1991 after graduating from college. I wrote a letter describing how I can some issues with post-college life and some depressed mood, and how I made a full recovery in 1991 and was not aware of any diagnosis made. I attached a letter from the clinic that stated that the treating psychologist had died and that records are not available (Ohio state law requires mental health records be preserved for seven years). It had been 19 years since treatment ended.

I heard nothing for weeks. I call on August 6 to check on the status and am told to call back in two weeks, which I did. I am told that the delay is likely due to the mental health question. Then I receive a letter from the Indiana State Police dated August 25 that says that my application is denied because:

start quote

"We are in posession of information that you are not a proper person to be licensed. As defined by IC 35-47-1-7, a proper person is one who: (6) "does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable belief that the personal has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct."

end quote

The kicker to this for me is that I am a licensed psychologist in Indiana, and have been since 2001 (I told them I was a state licensed psychologist in my letter). So I am not fit to carry a handgun, but I am fit to evaluate fitness for duty for Federal and State agencies (and I do, for one federal agency). Hmm.

So enough history. I am looking for recommendations for how to begin my appeal. I am willing to get an attorney involved if that seems to be the best course of action. I have the resources to pay for it, but I would want one that is solid and competent. Let me know what you think.

-ski-

 

[FULLMAGAZINE]

Best defense is a Congressional offense.

Your first step should be through your congressperson. (Been there, am doing that.) Keep copies of ALL correspondence, because SOMEONE must
be appointed to prosecute you for breaking the (non-existent) law, and
because you'll be asked the same things over, and over, and over again.
It may take a year, but carrying with you your initial app, proof of payments, plus the State Police denial letter (LEO can NOT decide your Constitutional Rights.) AND the record of your congressional contacts should let you continue to carry (assuming that you have legally carried in the past)
in most circumstances. The law is NOT what the State Police decide to say
it is; the Law is what the courts define it be. After the TICKET there comes the DOCKET. Keep the faith. The 2A will see you through, no matter the state you are in, if you are patient. Full M.

 

[-ski-]

Thanks for the reply and the advice. Would you recommend my state or US representative? I'm in US district 7 (Marion County), and I'm having trouble imagining that Andre Carson is going to have a lot of interest in the cause, especially as it could easily be dismissed as a state government issue. The local state representative might be more responsive... I'll have to consider that. Any other ideas? Would an attorney be helpful? I really don't want to lose on appeal.

-ski-

 

[Schwartzki]

Good Luck!

 

[dross]

I think you made a mistake. I don't believe that being treated for depression or seeing a psychiatrist in general is a disqualification. I don't think you had to report that.

 

[JoshuaW]

I think you made a mistake. I don't believe that being treated for depression or seeing a psychiatrist in general is a disqualification. I don't think you had to report that.

They ask the question, I cant remember what the IC says, but it is shaky at best.

Thanks for the reply and the advice. Would you recommend my state or US representative? I'm in US district 7 (Marion County), and I'm having trouble imagining that Andre Carson is going to have a lot of interest in the cause, especially as it could easily be dismissed as a state government issue. The local state representative might be more responsive... I'll have to consider that. Any other ideas? Would an attorney be helpful? I really don't want to lose on appeal.

-ski-

State. US wont care. Please do keep me updated on this. I have an interest in this incident, as we will more than likely be appealing a decision on my girlfriends app (that she has yet to file). In fact, can I PM or email you?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

-ski-,

How many co-workers and/or "sympathetic" colleagues might you have?

Those who can write a professional letter on your behalf, a kind of "diagnosis", if you will...

One of those guys can be your "new" psychologist that you've seen in order for a clean bill of health.

 

[Hawkeye]

First, I would not rely on what Fullmag said in his post. Congress is Federal, the Indiana license is a creature of the Indiana legislature. it is illegal to carry a handgun off your place of residence or work without said license.

I would seek competent legal counsel on the issue, and possibally seek professional psychological evaluation that would indicate you are not a "threat", but do that after you have discussed it with a lawyer.

 

[beararms1776]

I'm new to the site, and I've looked over some of the threads on here. I'm glad you all are here, as I can use some advice.

On March 1, 2010 I applied for a lifetime LTC. Got printed and finished the application on March 31. I marked "yes" to the box marked "Have you ever been treated for psychiatric health care or an emotional or mental illness." After a few weeks, I received a letter requesting a statement from my treating psychologist.

I received six to eight sessions of psychotherapy in 1991 after graduating from college. I wrote a letter describing how I can some issues with post-college life and some depressed mood, and how I made a full recovery in 1991 and was not aware of any diagnosis made. I attached a letter from the clinic that stated that the treating psychologist had died and that records are not available (Ohio state law requires mental health records be preserved for seven years). It had been 19 years since treatment ended.

I heard nothing for weeks. I call on August 6 to check on the status and am told to call back in two weeks, which I did. I am told that the delay is likely due to the mental health question. Then I receive a letter from the Indiana State Police dated August 25 that says that my application is denied because:

start quote

"We are in posession of information that you are not a proper person to be licensed. As defined by IC 35-47-1-7, a proper person is one who: (6) "does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable belief that the personal has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct."

end quote

The kicker to this for me is that I am a licensed psychologist in Indiana, and have been since 2001 (I told them I was a state licensed psychologist in my letter). So I am not fit to carry a handgun, but I am fit to evaluate fitness for duty for Federal and State agencies (and I do, for one federal agency). Hmm.

So enough history. I am looking for recommendations for how to begin my appeal. I am willing to get an attorney involved if that seems to be the best course of action. I have the resources to pay for it, but I would want one that is solid and competent. Let me know what you think.

-ski-

Doesn't seem fare does it. People who are not a danger to themselves or others get shafted by something as simple as looking for advice because a set of events caused you to be concerned for you and family's own safety. It's turned into something else and can make life hell for a person. Looks bad when you go to get a job to when employers start digging up old bones. It seems to follow you around from there. It's total bs. It's like the old saying though, one mans fun is anothers hell. Good Luck to ya. It's not about a gun at all, it's about control. That's what it was about before and that's what it's about now.

 

[singlesix]

I won't repeat what other have already posted, just adding my "good luck". Obviously there is still a stigma and misunderstanding about Mental Health. Punish the person that sought help and resolved the issue.

 

[beararms1776]

I won't repeat what other have already posted, just adding my "good luck". Obviously there is still a stigma and misunderstanding about Mental Health. Punish the person that sought help and resolved the issue.

There's nothing mental about it though.

 

[Hammerhead]

The problem with the application is that the question is asked, but there's no where on the online application to submit any info about it. It just says to put in the year you were "recently" treated and that you should submit info about it.

It seems as if they just want to deny it since being mentally unstable is a reason for denial, and they want you to have to appeal, if you realize you can and do, just to clear your name.

 

[downzero]

If there's an administrative appeal, go through that process. If you're qualified for a license, I would be surprised for you not to get one.

 

[-ski-]

Joshua_W, feel free to PM me, but know that I have to get my post count up to 15 before I can respond. Those that PMed me, I'm working on getting back to you; I'm not ignoring you, but being a newbie plinker on the site, and not wanting to just post for the sake of increasing post count, it will be a couple days before I can PM back.

Also, any names of attorneys? I put in a call to Bryan Lee Ciyou late yesterday, and I hope to hear back today. I've got a couple names of attorneys familiar with Indiana administrative law, but I'm looking for someone with experience in the matter of LTC appeals. Thanks.

-ski-

 

[braz007]

I think you made a mistake. I don't believe that being treated for depression or seeing a psychiatrist in general is a disqualification. I don't think you had to report that.

Totally agree.

 

[Tactical Dave]

I think you made a mistake. I don't believe that being treated for depression or seeing a psychiatrist in general is a disqualification. I don't think you had to report that.

What you or me beleive and what the law is is two different things.... he said that he was treated for a condition he had....... seems he did not want to lie on the application.

It is a little different then some who went to the doctor for depression and the doc giving them a persciption but the person never taking the persciption in and feeling better later...... then someone who saw someone multiple times and was treated for something.

 

[-ski-]

I don't think I made a mistake on the application. The wording on the question is awkward, but clear enough: "Have you ever been treated for psychiatric health care [sic] or an emotional or mental illness?"

This form is signed under the penalty of perjury. Giving false information or offering false evidence on the form is grounds for a felony conviction and up to three years in prison under IC-35-44-2-1. Also, there's the possibility of loss of my professional license and thus my career and income.

And ultimately, there's this little important thing called "truth" that still is operative, even if one is never found out, etc. If we affirm things that are not true, via an ends-justifies-the-means type argument, such as: I can misrepresent myself (e.g. perjury) because the I should never have to fill out such a form and the State has no business requiring a license, etc.), I think this leads to a slippery slope, where more and more can be justified for thinner and thinner reasons. Just my 2 cents.

-ski-

 

[Chuck26287]

I don't think I made a mistake on the application. The wording on the question is awkward, but clear enough: "Have you ever been treated for psychiatric health care [sic] or an emotional or mental illness?"

This form is signed under the penalty of perjury. Giving false information or offering false evidence on the form is grounds for a felony conviction and up to three years in prison under IC-35-44-2-1. Also, there's the possibility of loss of my professional license and thus my career and income.

And ultimately, there's this little important thing called "truth" that still is operative, even if one is never found out, etc. If we affirm things that are not true, via an ends-justifies-the-means type argument, such as: I can misrepresent myself (e.g. perjury) because the I should never have to fill out such a form and the State has no business requiring a license, etc.), I think this leads to a slippery slope, where more and more can be justified for thinner and thinner reasons. Just my 2 cents.

-ski-

It takes an honest man to tell the truth. It takes a man of character to tell the truth when the truth will deprive him, and a lie could so easily go unnoticed. Nice to know there are still people out there who feel the way you do. Repped.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Ski,

I still think that it'd be helpful if you got a professional clean bill of mental health from a colleague...

-J-

 

[EdC]

It takes an honest man to tell the truth. It takes a man of character to tell the truth when the truth will deprive him, and a lie could so easily go unnoticed. Nice to know there are still people out there who feel the way you do. Repped.

Me, too! Rep when I figure out how to do it. You didn't make a mistake, you answered the question truthfully exactly the way it's written. The only mistake I see (if I understood your initial post) is that you did not attach a letter from a mental health professional to the application when you sent it in. If I recall correctly, the app. states that if you answer that question "yes", you are supposed to send such a letter with the application. Without doing that, I believe, you will certainly get denied. But that's past history. Congressmen, lawyers, naw, not at this point.

Get a letter from a mental health professional with his or her evaluation, and find out what the appeals process is. In my opinion,based on no first hand knowledge whatsoever, you weren't denied just because you received mental health type treatment in the past, you were denied because you didn't accompany your application with the required letter from a mental health professional. Good luck!