Because they all think the black dog comes for other people. Not them. But, it do.
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Addiction
- Thread starter DeadeyeChrista'sdad
- Start date
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I agree with Pistolbob. Calling it a disease makes it sound like the addicted have been victimized by someone and should therefore be treated as such. I don't agree and I've have had my own issues over the years. Call it a condition if you will or any other term which doesn't promote the victim culture.
hoosierdoc
Freed prisoner
It seems to me the people who want to claim it's not a disease do so because of the desire to justify withholding sympathy and blame the person. I'm not excusing them for starting down the road, but at some point it becomes a disease. Sure, the first few months of drinking and partying are choices and free will. But then the disease sets in and alcoholism is no longer the "choice to drink alcohol". Same with heroin, meth, etc.
Is gout a disease in someone who loves cod? Or is it a choice? Is diabetes a choice in a 400# 30 year-old?
Why does it matter?
Is gout a disease in someone who loves cod? Or is it a choice? Is diabetes a choice in a 400# 30 year-old?
Why does it matter?
Hoosierdood
Grandmaster
How does one stop the addiction? They must choose to stop. It will never happen unless they make that choice. So if an addict must choose to stop, are they not also choosing to continue in their addiction?
Seems like a freewill choice to me.
Calling it a disease assumes that the person has no choice at all. IMO, there is always a choice no matter how deep you are.
hoosierdoc
Freed prisoner
I don't think calling it a disease removes choice in the equation. Dependency isn't a choice, your body has been modified by the substance you've been abusing. If you stop drinking you might have a seizure. Did they choose to have a seizure? Or has a disease developed as a result of initial choices?
Are obesity-related conditions not diseases?
Are obesity-related conditions not diseases?
Yeah, it's not a disease...it's a weakness or at best an indiscretion that becomes a weakness. I had a heroin addict, who was a friend of mine, die on my bed in the barracks after being intentionally ODd by his supplier because he was going to PCS before he paid his debts. It was both of their faults. Thankfully Delgado went to Mannheim Prison for his efforts.
hoosierdoc
Freed prisoner
What of the proven genetic component to addictions? Did they choose to have a gene that increases their risk of addiction? Is a genetic predisposition a choice? Is it a weakness?
I don't consider having a disease to be a victim status. Certain diseases I guess. But it's all how you view them. I've seen people who don't consider themselves victims despite devastating illness. and I've seen people with basically nothing wrong who consider themselves disabled. Victimhood mentality is often independent of the severity of what's going on in their lives IMO.
Addiction isn't treated by the person "trying harder". That's just not gonna work.
I don't consider having a disease to be a victim status. Certain diseases I guess. But it's all how you view them. I've seen people who don't consider themselves victims despite devastating illness. and I've seen people with basically nothing wrong who consider themselves disabled. Victimhood mentality is often independent of the severity of what's going on in their lives IMO.
Addiction isn't treated by the person "trying harder". That's just not gonna work.
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I know many of you have seen the darker side in this. I grew up around the beginnings of this culture in my area. Many I knew are gone. Many are mere shadows of who they were or in prison.
Every one of them stepped in of free will. Full well knowing. In that I have issues with what we label this. They all knew. I have had issues deeper than alcohol. I knew the score.
Choices. Clear for some. Others not much to loose anyway.
hoosierdoc
Freed prisoner
No one steps in to heroin addiction. They experiment. They get drunk and do something impulsive.
Then they find themselves addicted.
[devil’s advocate]Since it’s a “choice” then who cares what they do to themselves, it’s their own fault. As long as it doesn’t affect me i don’t Care. Everyone is free to live life how they want, even if it’s bad decisions. And since addiction is a choice it’s absurd for my tax dollars to go to help them. And narcan? What a waste! If someone chooses to OD we should let them” [/DA]
what’s the difference between a “disease” and a “medical condition”? Is a nervous tic a disease? Are they a victim? Is poor eyesight a “disease”? Or a condition?
whocares
is poor hearing from too much recreational shooting a choice? A condition? A disease?
ringworm isn’t a choice. Not really a disease, more of a condition. Is that a better word for addiction? Condition? We treat “conditions” all the time.
Perhaps we could ignore labels and focus on people instead.
Then they find themselves addicted.
[devil’s advocate]Since it’s a “choice” then who cares what they do to themselves, it’s their own fault. As long as it doesn’t affect me i don’t Care. Everyone is free to live life how they want, even if it’s bad decisions. And since addiction is a choice it’s absurd for my tax dollars to go to help them. And narcan? What a waste! If someone chooses to OD we should let them” [/DA]
what’s the difference between a “disease” and a “medical condition”? Is a nervous tic a disease? Are they a victim? Is poor eyesight a “disease”? Or a condition?
whocares is poor hearing from too much recreational shooting a choice? A condition? A disease?
ringworm isn’t a choice. Not really a disease, more of a condition. Is that a better word for addiction? Condition? We treat “conditions” all the time.
Perhaps we could ignore labels and focus on people instead.
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Exactly.No one steps in to heroin addiction. They experiment. They get drunk and do something impulsive.
Then they find themselves addicted.
[devil’s advocate]Since it’s a “choice” then who cares what they do to themselves, it’s their own fault. As long as it doesn’t affect me i don’t Care. Everyone is free to live life how they want, even if it’s bad decisions. And since addiction is a choice it’s absurd for my tax dollars to go to help them. And narcan? What a waste! If someone chooses to OD we should let them” [/DA]
what’s the difference between a “disease” and a “medical condition”? Is a nervous tic a disease? Are they a victim? Is poor eyesight a “disease”? Or a condition?
is poor hearing from too much recreational shooting a choice? A condition? A disease?
ringworm isn’t a choice. Not really a disease, more of a condition. Is that a better word for addiction? Condition? We treat “conditions” all the time.
Perhaps we could ignore labels and focus on people instead.
What other "disease" can you make the conscious decision to quit and "bam" youre cured?
Pretty much my point. But yes, some folks go in eyes wide open.
I also mentioned that if we eliminate the user market this will be greatly diminished. Both mean working with people. So............."How"
That, I believe, is the 64,000 dollar question.
Diabetes. Depending on the type, it can be controlled or even reversed with diet and exercise. An alcoholic/addict is always going to be an alcoholic/addict if they start using again after they've quit. Just like the diabetic that doesn't maintain their diet/exercise, they will again develop the symptoms of diabetes. So it's not a question of "bam" you're cured. The disease is still there even though the symptoms have abated.
As I have said repeatedly whenever this subject comes up, addicts/acoholics' brains are wired differently. Brain scans have shown this. It is scientific fact. What makes one person be able to have a couple of beers and stop, vs. someone else that has a couple of beers and can't stop? It's not just a question of willpower. Their bodies and brains do not process the alcohol the same way. It can not be cured. All an addict or alcoholic can hope for is a daily reprieve, hence the saying in AA or NA of "one day at a time." If anyone wants to learn more, I suggest attending an AA or NA meeting and just listening. Or even Alanon or Narcanon (for families of alcoholics and addicts). Listen to their stories. If you come away from that still believing it's totally a choice, then I don't know what to tell you.
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I am slowly leaning this direction. But we all choose to take a given path. So some of this still falls back on the individual.
At what point do we as Parents/friends step back and let go. How much stress and misery are we supposed to endure. Solid question.
I ask this in earnest. We are facing this break point s a family right now and trust that it sucks.
The first drink/drug use is a choice. It's what happens afterwards that makes it apparent that it's no longer a choice for some people. And as far as when you step back and let it go? Sometimes that is what is necessary. Of course you never stop caring, but when support becomes enabling, that is where the line is crossed. At that point, it can do more harm than good. You wouldn't hand a suicidal person a gun would you? That's what enabling an alcoholic/addict is like.
Clay Pigeon
Shooter
Once it's a disease, insurance companies pay the bill. Lots of money to be made once it's a disease.
Always follow the money.
We have ran the entire course multiple times only to find it will never change. Ever. In that we have cut the umbilical. It hurts.
Bad choices ruin lives, sometimes the effects of those choices can't be undone. We can't be vaccinated against stupidity. Free will requires great personal responsibility to oneself and to others. Some people are great at being responsible...some aren't...some are just lousy at it and end up depending on the safety net of friends and family to keep them alive. Don't be a junkie.
