9mm question

[subtlesixer03]

OK so what i would like to know is the 9mm nato basicly the same pressures as 9mm+p? as in if your firearm is rated for +p can it shoot 9mm nato ammo? I know the pressures of 9mm nato is higher then 9mm luger. im just wondering if it relitave to the +p. also correct me if im wrong all glocks are +p rated correct?

 

[OlBluesmoke]

You are exactly right. The 124 gr Nato round is bascially a +P round. Glocks are rated for +P/Nato rounds but of course any higher pressure round would accelerate wear on your pistol more quickly that a "standard" pressure round. Glocks are tough though and you should be able to fire a good amount of them if you like, with proper maintenance.

 

[rimfire_crazed]

Eh. Not quite

Standard pressure 9mm is 35,000 psi
+P 9mm is 38,500 psi
9mm Nato is around 36,500 psi


Overpressure - yes. +P? Not really. Your Glock was BUILT to fire 9mm NATO. Fire all of it you want.

 

[OlBluesmoke]

Rimfire is right...I was being lazy with my figures, my bad. I believe Glocks are actually rated for +P+ ammo, so you will be fine with the Nato stuff.

 

[subtlesixer03]

cool thanks for the info. i figured the glocks were made for 9mm nato since the are from austura and that i believe is the stardard over there.

 

[OlBluesmoke]

No problem. Rimfire is right about the ammo specs and Glocks are very well built pistols, One of the best made IMHO. Enjoy your time at the range, remember to focus on sight alignment, trigger control and most importantly safety procedures. Lastly, practice as much as possible, that way those 9mm Natos you're gonna use will do their job well if a moment of need arises (And of course the range is just plain fun).

 

[slow1911s]

+P ammo is, more than anything else, a designator for modern ammunition made to be fired in modern guns. The best example I can think of with 9mm would be a Luger.

 

[rimfire_crazed]

+P ammo is, more than anything else, a designator for modern ammunition made to be fired in modern guns. The best example I can think of with 9mm would be a Luger.

Sorry - I have to disagree. Many modern guns are not built for extended shooting of +P ammo - especially in the consumer market.

It is not safe to assume you can feed your gun a steady diet of +P just because it is "modern" and not a 90 year old German Luger or P38.

+P is a clear designation that the ammo is loaded to SAAMI specs for +P ammo.

 

[Disposable Heart]

While 9mm Nato isn't super plus P, it is disappointing in the bang/boom department (probably the reason folks buy it to begin with, thinking it is wonder ammo). I had thought that 125 going 1250 would be cool, until I chrono'ed a lot of WCC 9mm Nato. Only 1100 roughly FPS out of a CZ SP01 (read: long barrel). Bleh, not worth the extra cost for plinking and better ammo is available for 9mm in hollow pointed variety for defense.

To me, +p is a warning to use the ammo in a QUALITY gun of decent repute. The only modern guns that I have seen that do not like extended +P are usually inexpensive, cheap or poorly built guns to begin with (not crapping on Keltec, but I think $50 more bucks and they could have something to REALLY compete with the G26 instead of going bargain basement at every turn).

I think there is a wording issue with Modern. There is modern (up to "todays" standards) and there is new (any old thing made recently). New guns can be not rated, Modern ones are.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

To me, +p is a warning to use the ammo in a QUALITY gun of decent repute. The only modern guns that I have seen that do not like extended +P are usually inexpensive, cheap or poorly built guns to begin with (not crapping on Keltec, but I think $50 more bucks and they could have something to REALLY compete with the G26 instead of going bargain basement at every turn).

What is it that you don't like about a Kel-Tec? My P11 shoots 115 gr.+P Cor-Bon ammo all the time...AND it is inexpensive. Poorly built? Don't think so.

 

[rimfire_crazed]

Kel-Tec's own literature says not to feed the PF9 a steady diet of +P ammo. I carry standard pressure in mine. I dunno about the P11

 

[Disposable Heart]

What is it that you don't like about a Kel-Tec? My P11 shoots 115 gr.+P Cor-Bon ammo all the time...AND it is inexpensive. Poorly built? Don't think so.

Not poorly built, but underbuilt in my mind. A new production gun should be up to MODERN standards, including the ability to consume a steady diet of +P 9mm. I have had a PF9 before (and the P11, but got rid of it, terrible trigger, just my opinion) and liked it, but wished it was a bit better finished and a little more reinforcing material.

Biggest thing was the "poorly built" was a catch all for guns made today that I would not carry, such as Hi Point (okay, here we go, everyone with a Hi Point flip out, point to their manual, read the warranty verbatim, and personal stories of heroism of them using their Hi Points to defeat the army of darkness, etc...). Realistically, any gun that can't handle lots of plus P is poorly built in my mind. Not just Keltec, any gun for that matter. Hi Point rated for +P+? Yeah. Ever see one try to function on a constant basis with it? I have seen hundreds working at a range and have yet to see one work well enough for me to get one or carry one. No questions asked warrantee? Okay, thats fine, but when the Hi Point is in the shop getting fixed, what will one carry until that point? Not my idea of confidence inspiration.

Generally, all of the Keltecs (including some P32 and P3AT additions) were great guns, but cheaply built, no dancing around the subject. Do they get the job done? Yeah. Will 50 bucks of more materials, manhours to finish them a little better and maybe steel recievers instead of alloy kill Keltec? Probably not.

Just my opinion, not a personal attack. Folks need to chill out when it comes to guns, it isn't personal all the darn time!

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

Not poorly built, but underbuilt in my mind. A new production gun should be up to MODERN standards, including the ability to consume a steady diet of +P 9mm. I have had a PF9 before (and the P11, but got rid of it, terrible trigger, just my opinion) and liked it, but wished it was a bit better finished and a little more reinforcing material.

Biggest thing was the "poorly built" was a catch all for guns made today that I would not carry, such as Hi Point (okay, here we go, everyone with a Hi Point flip out, point to their manual, read the warranty verbatim, and personal stories of heroism of them using their Hi Points to defeat the army of darkness, etc...). Realistically, any gun that can't handle lots of plus P is poorly built in my mind. Not just Keltec, any gun for that matter. Hi Point rated for +P+? Yeah. Ever see one try to function on a constant basis with it? I have seen hundreds working at a range and have yet to see one work well enough for me to get one or carry one. No questions asked warrantee? Okay, thats fine, but when the Hi Point is in the shop getting fixed, what will one carry until that point? Not my idea of confidence inspiration.

Generally, all of the Keltecs (including some P32 and P3AT additions) were great guns, but cheaply built, no dancing around the subject. Do they get the job done? Yeah. Will 50 bucks of more materials, manhours to finish them a little better and maybe steel recievers instead of alloy kill Keltec? Probably not.

Just my opinion, not a personal attack. Folks need to chill out when it comes to guns, it isn't personal all the darn time!

Wasn't taking it as a personal attack, but was trying to understand your reasoning. This goes back to all previous threads about Kel-Tec 9's...in which it is understood that they are inexpensive and ugly and that's great, because they are purely a defensive handgun. Trigger? Yeah it's a little long and maybe a little hard for some folks, but then again, it's not a gun for the average person either.

And I suppose, should I ever find myself defending my home or family and the police confiscate my pistol while the investigation is taking place, I'm not worried about where my inexpensive pistol is or how soon I can get it back.

I've just never had a bad experience with mine.

 

[slow1911s]

Sorry - I have to disagree. Many modern guns are not built for extended shooting of +P ammo - especially in the consumer market.

It is not safe to assume you can feed your gun a steady diet of +P just because it is "modern" and not a 90 year old German Luger or P38.

+P is a clear designation that the ammo is loaded to SAAMI specs for +P ammo.

+P Ammunition Information

Now we're talking about extended shooting of +P ammo?

Like it or not, the +P designation was instituted so that shooters could discern modern loads from older ones in older calibers (38 SPL, 38 Super/38 ACP, 45 ACP, 9mm Para). These days, more than anything, it is a marketing tool.

Oh, and find me where in the SAAMI specs you see 40 S&W +P.

 

[subtlesixer03]

No problem. Rimfire is right about the ammo specs and Glocks are very well built pistols, One of the best made IMHO. Enjoy your time at the range, remember to focus on sight alignment, trigger control and most importantly safety procedures. Lastly, practice as much as possible, that way those 9mm Natos you're gonna use will do their job well if a moment of need arises (And of course the range is just plain fun).

Oh i love shooting and wish i coulod aford to do it everyday. starting shooting bb's at age 4. pop cans are still a blast to shoot

im actually planing on takeing my first formal shooting classes this oct in warsaw with ACT. defencive pistol 101 and 201.

 

[rimfire_crazed]

+P Ammunition Information

Now we're talking about extended shooting of +P ammo?

Like it or not, the +P designation was instituted so that shooters could discern modern loads from older ones in older calibers (38 SPL, 38 Super/38 ACP, 45 ACP, 9mm Para). These days, more than anything, it is a marketing tool.

Oh, and find me where in the SAAMI specs you see 40 S&W +P.

There's no such thing - 40S&W is already a high pressure round - but we all knew that, and we're not talking about 40S&W. We're talking about the pressure levels of 9mm Luger, Nato and +P.

Like it or not - there are modern guns built and sold that are not +P rated. There are other modern guns who's manufacturer's recommend only "limited" use of +P rated ammo. I own two "modern" 9mm's with this stipulation, and I respect it. I avoid making blanket statements at all costs because I don't want someone taking something I wrote, bending it to their needs, and then blowing themselves up.

So yes - yes we are talking about "extended use" because the thread progressed there.

 

[slow1911s]

This is news to me (really). What guns have manufacturer restrictions on +P ammo? If there is a list, I'd like to see it so we all can learn. I have no doubt some mfgs will state in their manuals that extended use of +P isn't recommend. But my guess is that is simply due to mechanical wear and tear relative to the same use of standard pressure rounds.

BTW - Buffalo Bore and Georgia Arms market +P 40 S&W. You're right, SAAMI doesn't list it. I wonder why they'd choose to labor and market such a thing? Maybe to sell more ammo?

 

[Disposable Heart]

Sort of like .380 +P, no such ACTUAL SAAMI pressure creature, just an indication to use it in a quality, durable, overbuilt for caliber weapon and probably not alot of them should be fired.

.40+P? Sounds expensive (new gun). The cartridge is already having issues in some guns, and now this. BTW: I hate when folks call .40 a "high pressure cartridge". It is only a little more than 9mm, less than .357, etc.. but I never hear of the latter being called "high pressure cartridges" whenever they are brought up in reloading conversations, like .40 has the tendency to.

Keltec says little or no +P, Charter Arms .38 Undercovers say minimal plus P (yep, including the modern one!), an old RIA manual I had said no plus P, but it was old and I have yet to see it referenced anymore, etc... (though I think +P .45 out of a 1911 is foolish anyways... ).

 

[sti38super]

Several guys in USPSA shoot open guns in the major catagory with Glocks. The major power factor is 165000. Example( 124gr bullet at 1335 fps) bullet weight times velocity= power factor. This rounds are higher pressure than the +P+ rounds and these guys shoot several hundred rounds every week with no problems with the Glocks.

 

[opus1776]

.40+P? Sounds expensive (new gun).

DH,

Isn't a 10mm bascially a .40+P????

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