6.8 SPC downgraded by Remington? WTF!?!

[melensdad]

Did anyone else notice?

The 6.8 SPC from Remington has been gaining popularity because it was claimed to have short range ballistics similar to the 308 and was claimed to be competitive to the 6.5 Grendel. Even the military tested the round and its been adopted by deer hunters in some states.

But now Remington dropped its velocity and energy figures.

• Velocity was dropped from a claimed 2800fps by nearly 200 fps to 2625.
• Energy was dropped from a claimed 2002 fp lb/muzzle to 2759 ft lb/muzzle.

The differences don't seem huge, until you start to compare them to other cartridges, and especially compared to the 5.56 Nato round. The whole purpose of this round was to replace the 5.56 and it was claimed that the 6.8 SPC would ballistically thrash the little 5.56. And to be honest, at 2800 fps it did a respectable job of whipping the 5.56.

But look at some velocity comparisons with new load data:

5.56/77gr OTM has a velocity of 2368 @ 200 yards
6.8/115gr OTM has a velocity of 2135 @ 200 yards
6.5 Grendel/123gr OTM has a velocity of 2432 @ 200 yards
and for comparison the much larger:
7.62 Nato/175gr OTM has a velocity of 2263 @ 200 yards
​

So the 6.8 clearly has lowest velocity of the bunch.

Then look at ENERGY with the new Remington published data:

5.56/77gr OTM has 958 ft lbs of energy @ 200 yards
6.8/115gr OTM has 1163 ft lbs of energy @ 200 yards
6.5 Grendel/123gr OTM has 1615 ft lbs of energy @ 200 yards
and for comparison the much larger:
7.62 Nato/175gr OTM has 1987 ft lbs of energy @ 200 yards​

For energy at 200 yards, the 6.8 clearly more than the 5.56 but the advantage is under 18% and any claim that it compares to the 6.5 Grendel (almost 30% less) or the 7.62 NATO (42% less) are clearly silly.

So what is to like about the 6.8 SPC? Its expensive to shoot and doesn't live up to the hype. Add to that there is now a new 6.8 SPC II load that is unsafe to shoot in the original 6.8 SPC chambers/barrels and requires a special "SPC II" chamber and slow barrel twist but most 6.8 SPC guns don't have that and I have to really question what Remington is doing with this round (by the way, Remington doesn't even load bullets in the 6.8 SPC II configuration).

 

[IndyBeerman]

Did anyone else notice?

The 6.8 SPC from Remington has been gaining popularity because it was claimed to have short range ballistics similar to the 308 and was claimed to be competitive to the 6.5 Grendel. Even the military tested the round and its been adopted by deer hunters in some states.

But now Remington dropped its velocity and energy figures.

• Velocity was dropped from a claimed 2800fps by nearly 200 fps to 2625.
• Energy was dropped from a claimed 2002 fp lb/muzzle to 2759 ft lb/muzzle.

The differences don't seem huge, until you start to compare them to other cartridges, and especially compared to the 5.56 Nato round. The whole purpose of this round was to replace the 5.56 and it was claimed that the 6.8 SPC would ballistically thrash the little 5.56. And to be honest, at 2800 fps it did a respectable job of whipping the 5.56.

But look at some velocity comparisons with new load data:

5.56/77gr OTM has a velocity of 2368 @ 200 yards
6.8/115gr OTM has a velocity of 2135 @ 200 yards
6.5 Grendel/123gr OTM has a velocity of 2432 @ 200 yards
and for comparison the much larger:
7.62 Nato/175gr OTM has a velocity of 2263 @ 200 yards
​

So the 6.8 clearly has lowest velocity of the bunch.

Then look at ENERGY with the new Remington published data:

5.56/77gr OTM has 958 ft lbs of energy @ 200 yards
6.8/115gr OTM has 1163 ft lbs of energy @ 200 yards
6.5 Grendel/123gr OTM has 1615 ft lbs of energy @ 200 yards
and for comparison the much larger:
7.62 Nato/175gr OTM has 1987 ft lbs of energy @ 200 yards​

For energy at 200 yards, the 6.8 clearly more than the 5.56 but the advantage is under 18% and any claim that it compares to the 6.5 Grendel (almost 30% less) or the 7.62 NATO (42% less) are clearly silly.

So what is to like about the 6.8 SPC? Its expensive to shoot and doesn't live up to the hype. Add to that there is now a new 6.8 SPC II load that is unsafe to shoot in the original 6.8 SPC chambers/barrels and requires a special "SPC II" chamber and slow barrel twist but most 6.8 SPC guns don't have that and I have to really question what Remington is doing with this round (by the way, Remington doesn't even load bullets in the 6.8 SPC II configuration).

For over a year I've considered buying a 6.5 Grendel upper rather than a 6.8 due to some of numbers I've seen this just reinforces that.

Plus another reason for not going the 6.8 route is that the 6.5 Grendel can use the standard AR-15 mags for the round, being able to put 25 6.5's in a 30 round mag.

Saves me money using 1 mag for 2 different rounds cutting my cost down overall

 

[IndyGunworks]

Yep... if i ever build an AR in a differant caliber it will be 6.5 grenel... thanks for the post really informative.... repped

 

[melensdad]

For over a year I've considered buying a 6.5 Grendel upper rather than a 6.8 due to some of numbers I've seen this just reinforces that.

Plus another reason for not going the 6.8 route is that the 6.5 Grendel can use the standard AR-15 mags for the round, being able to put 25 6.5's in a 30 round mag.

Saves me money using 1 mag for 2 different rounds cutting my cost down overall

Yep... if i ever build an AR in a differant caliber it will be 6.5 grenel... thanks for the post really informative.... repped

Well as someone who now has 3 6.5 Grendel uppers and who sold his 1 6.8 Remington SPC upper all I can say is the 6.5 Grendel is not perfect, but its damn close to it.

I didn't start this thread to compare the 6.5 Grendel to the 6.8 SPC, but rather to simply show what Remington has done with it . . . which really is do a huge disservice to shooters who trust the brand and its reputation. By pushing out a bullet with wild claims and then be forced to downgrade it when the truth comes out is simply wrong. If you sit down and run the numbers on a ballistics calculator, the 6.8 SPC is really just a little better than the 5.56, and that is the round it should be compared to because that is what it was designed to be vastly superior to.

I'm actually a fan of Remington, I think many of their products are excellent. But they've been working on a new round called the 30 RAR which is designed from the ground up as an AR15 based hunting round. Given what they have done with the 6.8 SPC, I have to wonder what the truth is with the ballistics of the 30 RAR???

 

[fireball168]

I was intrigued by the 6.8 early on.

Picked up as much information as I could at the time, put together the first on a 9 twist commercial barrel. Figured it was overgassed for my RL-10X loads, sleeved the gas port and most of my "believed" overpressure indicators were gone. Never did get the velocity I thought I should have out of it though - although other folks did, using the same barrel manufacturer.

The second was on an 11 twist barrel, as it was the slowest I could procure at the time. Rented a "SAAMI" body reamer and gave it .075" throat with a throating reamer at .278". That barrel shot, and had a distinct velocity advantage over the previous barrel, using the same gas port dimension.

Projectile availability is what soured me on the chambering, but that appears to have been resolved at this point.


All of this is to say - It is my opinion that Remington is reacting to the products in the marketplace that may use their ammunition or loading data.

Not unlike their 8mm Mauser loads, they need to have enough margin to be safe in the crappiest piece of rebarreled 1893/1895 Mauser as well as the latest production 700 Classic.

Same thing with the wide variation in 6.8 SPC chambers, throat length, twist and gas port dimensions.


The "best" thing I think that could happen would have Remington rename the cartridge, just like they did from the .244 Remington to the 6mm Remington. Change the specification for the twist and chamber dimensions and be done with it.

Plus another reason for not going the 6.8 route is that the 6.5 Grendel can use the standard AR-15 mags for the round, being able to put 25 6.5's in a 30 round mag.

That hasn't been my experience. Any more than seven, at best, will bulge GI or commercial magazines to the point they are unusable.

 

[melensdad]

The "best" thing I think that could happen would have Remington rename the cartridge, just like they did from the .244 Remington to the 6mm Remington. Change the specification for the twist and chamber dimensions and be done with it.

Agreed. The SPC II should be named something completely different. That would eliminate the confusion.

BTW, smoke a Don Tomas Cameroon Robusto today. Very nice. Amazing white ash that held well. Some veining in the wrapper, but only enough to give it visual character. Nicely made, consistent throughout with a smooth draw.

That hasn't been my experience. Any more than seven, at best, will bulge GI or commercial magazines to the point they are unusable.

I've used 30 round C Products 5.56 mags loaded with 15 to 20 rounds of 6.5 Grendel without any issue. But I admit to never having jammed one full to brim.