4x TA02 Acog vs Elcan Specter 1-4

[DDadams]

Anyone have decent experience with both?

I have absolutely *zero* with the Elcan but the rapid switch between 1 and 4 seems awfully appealing to me. Not having to raise my head to a smaller 1x mounted on top of the acog seems like it would be easier to get proficient with faster, as well.

Is the elcan worth the added weight and price though - to those who have had both? Has the durability of the small parts been fine? The elcan being able to somewhat move a bit after being mounted according to some reviews on YouTube makes me wonder, but nobody has said it affected their zero as long as it wasn't being purposely shifted during shooting.


Floating the idea of just going with a PA 3x micro prism and saving money, weight, and bulk. Sure I won't have a 1x, but being only 3x it will still be pretty usable in most distances. But it doesn’t have that 'cool' factor..

 

[patience0830]

Does the Elcan use batteries. If so, ACOG for me.

 

[DDadams]

Does the Elcan use batteries. If so, ACOG for me.

Oh - as crazy as I sound for this- I plan on using the TA02 acog if I get one - which does use batteries. So the 'no battery' argument doesn't apply for my situation.

Edit:

The ta02 also allows for a front top mount of piggybacked red dots - not the rear like the other models.

 

[SOUP]

The best acog I’ve had my hands on is the ta11 series. The eye relief that everyone complains about on the 4X isn’t an issue with the ta11. It’s a 3.5x, so you sacrifice a little magnification and some weight. However, you get better eye relief and also a better rmr placement if you choose to piggyback on top of the acog, it’s more forward mounted, which is the way to go imo.

As for the elcan, I’ve been trying to trade into one for years. I’ve only had the 1-3-9, it was very clear, but that particular model wasn’t for me. The 1.5-6 is what I’m after for my .308 sig spear, either that or a ta11…
But I may want more magnification on it.

 

[Kdf101]

No Elcan experience, butnI really like my acog. It is a ta31f though, so no batteries. I do have on of the PA 3x micro prisms and couldn’t be happier with it. Especially since it is 300 ish as opposed to 1k+. Really a nice, solid feeling, tank of an affordable scope.

 

[10mm]

I haven't had an elcan, but I have had a couple models of acog. I also have a PA 5x prism. The 5x can be used as a red dot with both eyes open. The 3x can be used similarly. Acog is crystal clear, but the prism isn't so far behind you'll hate it.

I find myself consistently wanting more magnification though. So I have to ask, why only 4x?

 

[DDadams]

I find myself consistently wanting more magnification though. So I have to ask, why only 4x?

Because I have two versions of basically the same exact replacement for my old go-to and ones getting this while the other is going to get more magnification. But that more magnification is going to take some time as the scope I want costs about the same price as each of these whole rifles and it takes me a while to put that kind of money together to be bluntly honest.

Another reason I'm considering just using the 3x micro prism on this one and using the difference to go towards the nice scope.

 

[Creedmoor]

We have a few TA31RCO ACOG's in our stable. One is on a BCM 16" gunfighter and another is on a RR government model, like a M4.
One son has about 5 1/2 yrs using that model ACOG at work and his BCM at home. If you would like to sit behind one just let us know and we can meet you between Alex and Elwood you can get some seat time before you dump a thou plus.

 

[10mm]

Because I have two versions of basically the same exact replacement for my old go-to and ones getting this while the other is going to get more magnification. But that more magnification is going to take some time as the scope I want costs about the same price as each of these whole rifles and it takes me a while to put that kind of money together to be bluntly honest.

Another reason I'm considering just using the 3x micro prism on this one and using the difference to go towards the nice scope.

Seems reasonable to me. The whole appeal of the PA prisms for me was the reticle and they provide a lot of info without being overly complicated. I'd argue you're on the right track with the 3x if you're looking to save for an atacr or something wild. I think we all know the burden of saving for shiny eyepieces

 

[Kdf101]

Like I said upthread, I think you would be happy with the PA 3x micro prism as a stop gap until you get saved up. Mine has been rock solid. Great reticle, very clear glass, and illuminated reticle if you need it.

 

[Tombs]

Lots of experience with both. The elcan has better glass but the eyebox is a tad more picky.

For what I like in an optic, I prefer the elcan. I wish it had the fiber optic illumination of an acog though.

They both have a similar FOV but the acog feels like it's a wider FOV. I also believe 1x magnification is redundant and silly when you can piggy back an RMR on an elcan and have a FAR better solution than optical 1x. A side benefit is the elcan is externally adjusted so when you zero your elcan it will also zero your RMR, providing you had zeroed them together before.

The OS4x was the perfect model but I don't think they make it anymore. Almost half the weight of the dual power by sacrificing the 1x.

 

[Tombs]

I haven't had an elcan, but I have had a couple models of acog. I also have a PA 5x prism. The 5x can be used as a red dot with both eyes open. The 3x can be used similarly. Acog is crystal clear, but the prism isn't so far behind you'll hate it.

I find myself consistently wanting more magnification though. So I have to ask, why only 4x?

Are you trying to hit man sized targets or shoot groups? 4x is plenty for shooting a man sized target out to any distance you can reliably hit something with 5.56. More magnification just makes it harder to track and acquire a target.

With the PA micro prisms you run into wanting more magnification because of a design issue with the optic. It has a tiny apparent image size which makes it difficult to resolve fine details on a target. It isn't a lack of magnification, it's that the image being presented to you is tiny.

With a TA31 acog or an elcan, the apparent image size is MASSIVE, making it very easy to resolve fine details.
With my elcan OS4x I can see the outlines of paint chips on targets at 300 yards.

 

[10mm]

I'm typically shooting groups at close to middle distance (100-600m) with most rifles and I reload for precision even with 5.56/.223. For fast and close target acquisition inside 300m you're 100% correct. I didn't notice that big of a difference between the PA and the acog field of view until I popped them out together and wow. It looks to be almost half again bigger in the acog. Of course the acog is also crystal clear, but the PA is definitely still serviceable for the price.

While this is an issue, I've rarely felt like I've had too much magnification for my purposes. Hunting purposes always get a red dot or a 3-9x though as I've had friends who couldn't take a shot with a 5x low end.

 

[Tombs]

I'm typically shooting groups at close to middle distance (100-600m) with most rifles and I reload for precision even with 5.56/.223. For fast and close target acquisition inside 300m you're 100% correct. I didn't notice that big of a difference between the PA and the acog field of view until I popped them out together and wow. It looks to be almost half again bigger in the acog. Of course the acog is also crystal clear, but the PA is definitely still serviceable for the price.

While this is an issue, I've rarely felt like I've had too much magnification for my purposes. Hunting purposes always get a red dot or a 3-9x though as I've had friends who couldn't take a shot with a 5x low end.

Well the PA3x is great and even preferable to an acog in some situations solely because of the weight and size. I also like the shake awake quite a lot and wish more top shelf companies would integrate it.

The PA3x allowed me to get an AR10 set up the way I wanted, even with all the night vision accessories, and arrive at a weight comparable to an M4. Sure it's a compromise on optical performance, but if you aren't shooting groups it's an amazingly useful little thing.

If you're shooting for groups nothing is going to compare to getting a 5-25 with a 56mm objective. Or going even further, along with a really really stable bipod setup. You will never wish you had a smaller objective lens. For a large optic my favorite range is 3-15. With a good sized scope, the performance at 3x is nutty and that's a perfectly reasonable magnification for doing anything.