22LR flippers

[jcwit]

It is my personal belief that one of my primary roles is to provide for my family. I find it hard to believe that there are many here that if they purchased a car below market value would sell for what you have in it. ie, (theoretical) 72 Corvette that you bought for $1000 that has a market value of $5000, would you really sell it for $1000 to "help your fellow enthusiasts". Same thing with your home when you go to sell. There is nothing wrong with helping your fellow enthusiasts (as I have sold some reloading supplies over the past year to friends of mine way below market value as a favor) however being angry at them for making a profit because you are unprepared is unreasonable.

Not a good analogy at all. The Corvette purchased was sold way undervalued, show me a brick of ammo selling undervalued.

 

[hornadylnl]

What do I know, I'm just an idiot who hoarded a bunch of ammo at cheap prices and don't have to camp out at every retailer to get my next fix or pay $75 a brick.

 

[dieselrealtor]

Not a good analogy at all. The Corvette purchased was sold way undervalued, show me a brick of ammo selling undervalued.

Theoretical pricing & scenario, What if the vette was purchased previously?
Cars sell undervalued every day, I have purchased some over the years, some of which I drove for several years then still sold for a profit.

If walmart is selling bricks at $25 that are being turned & flipped for $50-$75 then all the bricks walmart sells are selling undervalued.

 

[Win52C]

If I am going to pay over a dime a shot for .22lr, it will be Eley 10X or mid 90's vintage Fed 900B.

I have three grandsons that really need to be learning to shoot the 3 .22LR rifles I have for them. I cannot believe the "shortage" has been this long.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

Of your going too shoot Eley tenex plan on .40 a shot. That's the going rate. Has been for some time. $20 per box of 50.

 

[jcwit]

If walmart is selling bricks at $25 that are being turned & flipped for $50-$75 then all the bricks walmart sells are selling undervalued.

Ya! It's clearly obvious Wally World has no idea how the retail market works. LOL

 

[billt]

Not a good analogy at all. The Corvette purchased was sold way undervalued, show me a brick of ammo selling undervalued.

In today's market, it would be every one sold at Walmart. If that were not true, this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[billt]

What do I know, I'm just an idiot who hoarded a bunch of ammo at cheap prices and don't have to camp out at every retailer to get my next fix or pay $75 a brick.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. All of these type of arguments always come down to the haves vs. the have not's.

 

[Win52C]

I can speak from my personal experiences. I have bought 17K rounds of .22LR from Wal-Mart since Sandy Hook, and haven't flipped a single round for profit. Not one. I haven't bought any since probably last summer, but I've turned LOTS of friends onto most shipments of .22LR that hit our local store, and none of them are reselling. My buddy has friends who have hit Wal-Marts here in Indiana for 50K+ rounds of .22LR EACH in the last year, and none of them are reselling either. So, I can vouch for hundreds of thousands of rounds of .22LR in southern Indiana that aren't being bought by flippers. My store gets .22LR in on a weekly basis.

Isnt this his another facet of the problem. ?? Guys buying 50k+ rounds of 22lr that they will never shoot in their lifetime?? Don't get me wrong, there shouldn't be limits on what you can buy, but get real. Will you really shoot up 50k rounds? Anytime soon. Wouldn't 10k be enough. For the next year?? Leaving a lot more on the shelves for others ? Just a thought

 

[billt]

Isnt this his another facet of the problem. ?? Guys buying 50k+ rounds of 22lr that they will never shoot in their lifetime??

How can that be a problem when it was pointed out that these purchases were carried out over 2 decades ago when this ammo was cheap, and no one wanted it? I bought over 30,000 rounds of Federal 550 round bulk packs off a pallet in a local Walmart for $8.88 a pack, back in the early 90's. How does that effect anyone standing in line at Walmart today for their weekly fix or flip?

 

[AA&E]

Some here need to read up on what the true meaning of "fair market value" truly is.

Fair market value - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fair market value (FMV) is an estimate of the market value of a property, based on what a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured buyer would probably pay to a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured seller in the market. An estimate of fair market value may be founded either on precedent or extrapolation. Fair market value differs from the intrinsic value that an individual may place on the same asset based on their own preferences and circumstances.
Since market transactions are often not observable for assets such as privately held businesses and most personal and real property, FMV must be estimated. An estimate of Fair Market Value is usually subjective due to the circumstances of place, time, the existence of comparable precedents, and the evaluation principles of each involved person. Opinions on value are always based upon subjective interpretation of available information at the time of assessment. This is in contrast to an imposed value, in which a legal authority (law, tax regulation, court, etc.) sets an absolute value upon a product or a service.

I believe this can be paraphrased as I listed above, what a reasonable seller & reasonable buyer agree upon. Many buyers in the current market are under a self imposed duress, which excludes them from the definition.

Well said Diesel. If the retailers would take it upon themselves to charge $50 to 75, this retarded crap would be over in a week or two and within a couple months prices would be somewhat normal again.

 

[AA&E]

Not a good analogy at all. The Corvette purchased was sold way undervalued, show me a brick of ammo selling undervalued.

He is also talking about the sale of an item that has appreciated. Ammo is selling everyday at the normal price, and immediately resold for profit because some loser has nothing better to do than sit outside walmart when the truck comes in. (not referencing the people that bought pre shortage) It flies off the shelf in many places because others seek an opportunity to profit. Someone else pointed out earlier doing this continuously and not reporting the income is illegal. You have to be registered with the Sec of State in Indiana to conduct regular routine sale of anything. You have to collect sales tax. You have to report profit and losses.

I conduct my business honorably and legally. I doubt many of the flippers are doing so.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Here's an issue for you to ponder. This is all real. Leave aside what you THINK ammo should cost and bear with me. I am getting ready to sell some .22lr ammo (up to 3k rounds) to a fellow InGOer who is local and out of .22lr ammo. He assures me he's not looking to resell and I believe him (I approached him when he responded to an ad from someone selling cheap ammo high).

ONE of the types of ammo I bought (good quality, not high end target, but not low end bulk) for $28.95 plus tax for a brick, so about $31. I am selling it to him for $40. Raise your hands if you think I am gouging him, or even if you think I am taking advantage of him.


Anyone?



Does it matter that I paid that back in 2010 and at the time if I had wanted to I could have bought a truckload of it and not made anyone else not be able to buy any, and if I had invested the same money in a CD at the time I would now have about $38? or the fact that I ran the risk and expense of storing it during that time? It could have been stolen in the 4 years I've had it, or damaged or lost.

Am I still taking advantage of my fellow shooter?


What about the fact that this same ammo from Midwayusa right now is selling for $39 per 500 without shipping?

Am I helping the rest of you out in a small way because not only have I decreased the demand a little from some flipper out there, but I am also selling ammo that idiot me stockpiled away at a time when anyone could have bought as much as I did?

 

[AA&E]

What do I know, I'm just an idiot who hoarded a bunch of ammo at cheap prices and don't have to camp out at every retailer to get my next fix or pay $75 a brick.

For a guy that claims to not be a flipper, you sure do get your feelings hurt at all the negativity towards them. Nobody has a problem with HORDERS, which is what you claim to be. You come across as being a bit more vested in the subject at hand than you are admitting to.

 

[Leadeye]

I've never understood why idiots think they have to stockpile 50k - 100k rounds of .22
If the SHTF, unless a person has extensive military training, no one could get off more than 50 shots of .22 in defense/fights before they themselves died. And why would you use .22 for defense?
In a survival situation, a person is unlikely to shoot more than 5,000 rnds in 10 years. And the local squirrel/rabbit population would go extinct long before then.

By stockpiling today all you are doing is preventing your fellow shooters from acquiring ammo.

Depends on what you're shooting, the old American 180 got rid of 50 rounds in a little over a second.

 

[shibumiseeker]

For a guy that claims to not be a flipper, you sure do get your feelings hurt at all the negativity towards them. Nobody has a problem with HORDERS, which is what you claim to be. You come across as being a bit more vested in the subject at hand than you are admitting to.

Nah, like him, I get tired of hearing the whining and complaining from folks, MOST of whom had the same opportunity to put some away as we did when supply was plentiful and cheaper than today. The new guy who JUST started shooting, ok, I have some pity for. But after the last THREE shortages several of us were BEGGING people, who talked about only buying what they needed for that afternoon from WM on their way to the range, to buy some extra and put away for the next time it was short. Most didn't take our advice. Many of those same people are the ones who are now calling us names for not selling them our ammo for cheap. Hornady is one of those guys who for the last few years has been asking folks to stock up when it was cheap, and most people just ignored it, so he's having a little "I told you so" right now because the folks who didn't listen deserve it. With a little luck, when supply eases a little maybe a FEW of them will have listened and learned and work on putting more away for the next time instead of just being part of the panic problem once again.

 

[AA&E]

Here's an issue for you to ponder. This is all real. Leave aside what you THINK ammo should cost and bear with me. I am getting ready to sell some .22lr ammo (up to 3k rounds) to a fellow InGOer who is local and out of .22lr ammo. He assures me he's not looking to resell and I believe him (I approached him when he responded to an ad from someone selling cheap ammo high).

ONE of the types of ammo I bought (good quality, not high end target, but not low end bulk) for $28.95 plus tax for a brick, so about $31. I am selling it to him for $40. Raise your hands if you think I am gouging him, or even if you think I am taking advantage of him.


Anyone?



Does it matter that I paid that back in 2010 and at the time if I had wanted to I could have bought a truckload of it and not made anyone else not be able to buy any, and if I had invested the same money in a CD at the time I would now have about $38? or the fact that I ran the risk and expense of storing it during that time? It could have been stolen in the 4 years I've had it, or damaged or lost.

Am I still taking advantage of my fellow shooter?


What about the fact that this same ammo from Midwayusa right now is selling for $39 per 500 without shipping?

Am I helping the rest of you out in a small way because not only have I decreased the demand a little from some flipper out there, but I am also selling ammo that idiot me stockpiled away at a time when anyone could have bought as much as I did?

No, I don't think anyone would fault you for what you are doing. I certainly wouldn't. I don't even take issue with LGS that buy stock from Walmart and resell it for a marginally larger amount. But this is the equivalent of scalping. I view these people as having nothing productive going on in their lives, that allow them to camp for an item of marginal value, in hopes to buy a limit of three items and make a $120-150/day profit. To some people successfully doing this 3 or 4 times a week is probably acceptable income for them. They never report this income so they can keep on taking advantage of things like unemployment insurance, food stamps, etc. as well. People with jobs and responsibilities in their lives aren't the people available 24/7 to be at walmart when the truck arrives. You people are likely defending the exact type you personally loath if you new the real truth. The American way, huh guys?

 

[billt]

Now, bear with me here because I'm not trying to sell any ammo to anyone. But let's say I was. If I sold my Federal Bulk Packs I paid $8.88 for back in the 90's for $50.00. Would I be gouging them the same as if I sell my house for 3 times what I paid for it at the same time? Something is worth what it is worth. It doesn't matter, and is totally meaningless what event transpired to make it worth that.

 

[AA&E]

Nah, like him, I get tired of hearing the whining and complaining from folks, MOST of whom had the same opportunity to put some away as we did when supply was plentiful and cheaper than today. The new guy who JUST started shooting, ok, I have some pity for. But after the last THREE shortages several of us were BEGGING people, who talked about only buying what they needed for that afternoon from WM on their way to the range, to buy some extra and put away for the next time it was short. Most didn't take our advice. Many of those same people are the ones who are now calling us names for not selling them our ammo for cheap. Hornady is one of those guys who for the last few years has been asking folks to stock up when it was cheap, and most people just ignored it, so he's having a little "I told you so" right now because the folks who didn't listen deserve it. With a little luck, when supply eases a little maybe a FEW of them will have listened and learned and work on putting more away for the next time instead of just being part of the panic problem once again.

Perhaps the last shortage was more regional in nature? I was in Florida until fairly recently for the majority of my adult life and never experienced a shortage prior to the current one.

 

[AA&E]

Now, bear with me here because I'm not trying to sell any ammo to anyone. But let's say I was. If I sold my Federal Bulk Packs I paid $8.88 for back in the 90's for $50.00. Would I be gouging them the same as if I sell my house for 3 times what I paid for it at the same time? Something is worth what it is worth. It doesn't matter, and is totally meaningless what event transpired to make it worth that.

Honestly, I don't know that I would take issue with this either. You have sat on something that has appreciated over time. You aren't buying something of limited quantity right now and selling it immediately (and assumably illegally, taxes etc) for profit. If you aren't doing this routinely you wouldn't need to register it as a business.

 

[shibumiseeker]

No, I don't think anyone would fault you for what you are doing. I certainly wouldn't. I don't even take issue with LGS that buy stock from Walmart and resell it for a marginally larger amount. But this is the equivalent of scalping.

You see though, the problem here is that there is a vocal group of shooters, many right here on InGO who DON'T MAKE ANY DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE TWO.

If I paid $25 a brick, they insist I should only sell it for $25 a brick. No matter when I bought it. If I charge $26 a brick that I bought when anyone could walk into a store and buy it, they still call me a flipper. If I sold some of my "hoard" for more than I bought it for, I am "taking advantage of my fellow shooters." If I DON'T sell my "hoard" then I am just selfish.

And I have, for YEARS now, watched many of these very same people rail on in other threads about socialism and "free market" and whatnot, only to see their hypocrisy when it comes to something they WANT (yes, a WANT, not a NEED) that they can't get because they didn't have the foresight to prepare for.

I got no use for the guys who are camping out to buy as much as they can for an immediate 100% profit, they are what are contributing to the problem, but so are the folks who only ever buy 1 box at a time because they can't weather the situation. And now that this stupidity has gone on for a long enough time, even the guys who HAD a year or so supply on hand are running out.

Oh, and FWIW, the guy who is buying my ammo offered to pay a few bucks extra over what I was asking because of my willingness to help him out. THAT is why I offered to sell to him in the first place, because THAT is the kind of person I don't mind helping out. A far cry from the whiners here who think I should be giving them my ammo. In the long run too, I will remember that and if there is ever a real SHTF, that is the kind of person I will be far more likely to try to help out, not the "gimme gimme gimme" crowd.