The INGO Hardcore Weight Loss/Fitness Thread

Snapdragon · Sep 14, 2023

217.6. Hopefully I broke the plateau. :yesway:

bwframe · Sep 14, 2023

JTKelly · Sep 20, 2023

When the alien lizard people come for me all they are going to get is bone, gristle, lead and hate.

bwframe · Sep 20, 2023

JTKelly · Oct 2, 2023

I got my 6month report today. A1C down 5.5, from 6.3. Weight down 203, from 210. Rest of the labs were all good. Doc asked again if I'm getting enough to eat. Never heard that in my LIFE from a doctor and now I've been asked that twice in two visits.

Hoosier8 · Oct 2, 2023

Snapdragon said:
I'll admit it... when I go to the INGO Fitness Club thread and see people posting about running ten miles or doing 100 push-ups or wanting to lose that last five pounds, I feel more discouraged than motivated. This thread is for members who have hardcore weight issues so we can support each other.

Let me give you some encouragement. First, exercise is important but you will not lose the weight you want to lose by exercise.

In my late 40’s I lost about 45 lbs counting calories and exercising. Many times in the past I would lose about 20 lbs counting calories and it was never sustainable. Counting calories leaves you hungry and you will fail, period, full stop. Not eating is unnatural.

So it turns out that if you don’t change what you eat you will not lose weight, period. The poison for your system that creates almost many metabolic issues are sugars and carbs. The food industry studies how to make food addictive so avoid ALL processed food.

I cut my carbs to 20 grams or less and so far have lost 21 lbs without exercise. To give an idea how many carbs an average American eats is around 400. An apple has 15 grams. This means I eat meat, eggs, bacon, and butter along with some other low carb foods like some above ground vegetables.

Since the 80’s the new dietary standards have us eating a lot of carbs and it is no wonder obesity has exploded and diabetes has increased at even a higher rate and is now even being found in children.

I have about 29 more lbs to go to get to my ideal weight but many have lost over 100 lbs eating on the keto or carnivore diets. I am losing now about 1.2 lbs a week. Doctors are not trained in nutrition but in giving medications so my goal is to get off of them through health.

One of the benefits of the diet is stabilized blood glucose. By avoiding carbs the painful hunger pains level out to the point that you no longer crave them which is an addiction response.

Two months now and I no longer feel bloated, wake up refreshed, and losing the fat internally and externally helps reduce or remove metabolic inflammation. My injured quad patella ligament inflammation so far is at least 90% better with less pain.

For me this will not be a diet but a lifestyle change. It isn’t easy as doctors are not nutritionists and many will say it’s bad but that’s because of what we are told without actual scientific proof. New studies are now coming along how this diet eliminates diabetes for many.

Well that’s my two cents.

Snapdragon · Oct 2, 2023

Thank you so much for your input. I am trying to restrict carbs, but I don't know if I can cut them down that much. It might be worth revisiting it.

Meanwhile, after posting over two weeks ago that I was down to 217.6, I bounced up to 224 and still have not made it all the way back down yet. I hate the yo-yo stuff. One pound down and five pounds up. I am currently at 219. Hoping that I can get back down below 217 soon.

Hoosier8 · Oct 2, 2023

Snapdragon said:
Thank you so much for your input. I am trying to restrict carbs, but I don't know if I can cut them down that much. It might be worth revisiting it.

Meanwhile, after posting over two weeks ago that I was down to 217.6, I bounced up to 224 and still have not made it all the way back down yet. I hate the yo-yo stuff. One pound down and five pounds up. I am currently at 219. Hoping that I can get back down below 217 toon.

I went whole hog (pun intended) going carnivore. I bought 1/8 cow from Tyner Ponds. Grass fed and grass finished beef. About 25 lbs of hamburger and 25 lbs of other cuts. I have added some veggies like green beans and broccoli but they have to be cooked fresh. I get 1/4 lb patties from McDonalds sometimes when out. They are $1.79 a piece.

It’s actually kind of boring but I often only eat once or twice a day due to much lower hunger. It makes eating out more difficult.

You can get all needed nutrients from ruminant meat like beef, goats, etc. animals with multiple stomachs.

You can have some side effects when you start. Some get what they call the carnivore flu which is actually carb withdrawal. The change of food to the gut can give you constipation or diarrhea for a time until your gut gets used to it. I got the later.

I also gave up alcohol entirely and I love single malt scotch and beer but the benefits so far of that and the diet have been good.

No alcohol going on 2 years and the diet over 2 months.

BehindBlueI's · Oct 2, 2023

Snapdragon said:
Thank you so much for your input. I am trying to restrict carbs, but I don't know if I can cut them down that much. It might be worth revisiting it.

Meanwhile, after posting over two weeks ago that I was down to 217.6, I bounced up to 224 and still have not made it all the way back down yet. I hate the yo-yo stuff. One pound down and five pounds up. I am currently at 219. Hoping that I can get back down below 217 toon.

You can lose weight eating carbs. I know it's popular to demonize them at the moment, but bread has been a staple in human diet for longer than writing has existed, and beer wasn't far behind, so it's not really about carbs. Gladiators ate barley and beans in large quantity. Asia's reliance on rice hasn't led to anything like our obesity crisis, etc. Walk around downtown Paris or Naples and you'll see plenty of very thin people eating bread, drinking wine/beer, and having a gelato. Avoiding overly processed carbs, absolutely. Sugar, absolutely. Just saying carbs leads to some sort of metabolic issue is not inline with human history or observation, though.

I'm back to losing weight again, trying to push to 180-190, and while I'm literally running my ass off, I've cut back on meat quite a bit. Not because I think meat is bad, just a matter of time savings and portability. I backpacked 21 miles over 2 days and took whole wheat bread, hummus, and rotisserie chicken for my main calorie sources. I rely pretty heavily on oats, beans, and Greek yogurt in my daily diet.

Simply walking more can help a lot, exercise doesn't have to be intense to be effective.

wcd · Oct 2, 2023

BehindBlueI's said:
You can lose weight eating carbs. I know it's popular to demonize them at the moment, but bread has been a staple in human diet for longer than writing has existed, and beer wasn't far behind, so it's not really about carbs. Gladiators ate barley and beans in large quantity. Asia's reliance on rice hasn't led to anything like our obesity crisis, etc. Walk around downtown Paris or Naples and you'll see plenty of very thin people eating bread, drinking wine/beer, and having a gelato. Avoiding overly processed carbs, absolutely. Sugar, absolutely. Just saying carbs leads to some sort of metabolic issue is not inline with human history or observation, though.

I'm back to losing weight again, trying to push to 180-190, and while I'm literally running my ass off, I've cut back on meat quite a bit. Not because I think meat is bad, just a matter of time savings and portability. I backpacked 21 miles over 2 days and took whole wheat bread, hummus, and rotisserie chicken for my main calorie sources. I rely pretty heavily on oats, beans, and Greek yogurt in my daily diet.

Simply walking more can help a lot, exercise doesn't have to be intense to be effective.

Same here I enjoy bread, Pizza . And I do not count carbs . I average 15 to 30k steps a day so I think it’s more about balance and exercising to maintain or loose weight.

JTKelly · Oct 2, 2023

Hoosier8 said:
Let me give you some encouragement. First, exercise is important but you will not lose the weight you want to lose by exercise.

In my late 40’s I lost about 45 lbs counting calories and exercising. Many times in the past I would lose about 20 lbs counting calories and it was never sustainable. Counting calories leaves you hungry and you will fail, period, full stop. Not eating is unnatural.

So it turns out that if you don’t change what you eat you will not lose weight, period. The poison for your system that creates almost many metabolic issues are sugars and carbs. The food industry studies how to make food addictive so avoid ALL processed food.

I cut my carbs to 20 grams or less and so far have lost 21 lbs without exercise. To give an idea how many carbs an average American eats is around 400. An apple has 15 grams. This means I eat meat, eggs, bacon, and butter along with some other low carb foods like some above ground vegetables.

Since the 80’s the new dietary standards have us eating a lot of carbs and it is no wonder obesity has exploded and diabetes has increased at even a higher rate and is now even being found in children.

I have about 29 more lbs to go to get to my ideal weight but many have lost over 100 lbs eating on the keto or carnivore diets. I am losing now about 1.2 lbs a week. Doctors are not trained in nutrition but in giving medications so my goal is to get off of them through health.

One of the benefits of the diet is stabilized blood glucose. By avoiding carbs the painful hunger pains level out to the point that you no longer crave them which is an addiction response.

Two months now and I no longer feel bloated, wake up refreshed, and losing the fat internally and externally helps reduce or remove metabolic inflammation. My injured quad patella ligament inflammation so far is at least 90% better with less pain.

For me this will not be a diet but a lifestyle change. It isn’t easy as doctors are not nutritionists and many will say it’s bad but that’s because of what we are told without actual scientific proof. New studies are now coming along how this diet eliminates diabetes for many.

Well that’s my two cents.

I concur.

100%

The food industry, the government health standards, government farming subsidies, medical industry they are all scams, cons, a cartel of corruption plotting to keep the population fat, happy, docile and dependent.

For some people carbohydrates can be as addictive as alcohol is for others. You HAVE TO EAT TO LIVE but you DON'T have to carbohydrate yourself to death.

Hoosier8 · Oct 2, 2023

BehindBlueI's said:
You can lose weight eating carbs. I know it's popular to demonize them at the moment, but bread has been a staple in human diet for longer than writing has existed, and beer wasn't far behind, so it's not really about carbs. Gladiators ate barley and beans in large quantity. Asia's reliance on rice hasn't led to anything like our obesity crisis, etc. Walk around downtown Paris or Naples and you'll see plenty of very thin people eating bread, drinking wine/beer, and having a gelato. Avoiding overly processed carbs, absolutely. Sugar, absolutely. Just saying carbs leads to some sort of metabolic issue is not inline with human history or observation, though.

I'm back to losing weight again, trying to push to 180-190, and while I'm literally running my ass off, I've cut back on meat quite a bit. Not because I think meat is bad, just a matter of time savings and portability. I backpacked 21 miles over 2 days and took whole wheat bread, hummus, and rotisserie chicken for my main calorie sources. I rely pretty heavily on oats, beans, and Greek yogurt in my daily diet.

Simply walking more can help a lot, exercise doesn't have to be intense to be effective.

Hey man, do your own thing. You can lose weight a number of ways one of which is the Whole Food Plant Based (WFPB) diet.

At my age this is working for me so time will tell if it is sustainable but all indications right now is that it has had great effect reducing metabolic inflammation.

I was addicted to CostCo’s chocolate chip cookies. Yum!

What my weight loss looked like when I started using MyFitnessPal and counting calories the last 15 years.

BehindBlueI's · Oct 2, 2023

Hoosier8 said:
Hey man, do your own thing. You can lose weight a number of ways one of which is the Whole Food Plant Based (WFPB) diet.

At my age this is working for me so time will tell if it is sustainable but all indications right now is that it has had great effect reducing metabolic inflammation.

I was addicted to CostCo’s chocolate chip cookies. Yum!

What my weight loss looked like when I started using MyFitnessPal and counting calories the last 15 years.

View attachment 303038

Like your chart shows, lots of things work well for awhile, but lots of things aren't sustainable. The number of people who stay "keto" over the course of a year is probably pretty small, and I'd bet it's essentially zero over 5 years. I'd also suggest there's a difference between a cookie and the same calories worth of whole grain bread or natural oats. I'm certainly not saying it won't work, I'm also saying there's more than one way to do this and that 'carbs aren't healthy' isn't a fact given the lack of obese people on carb heavy diets in many cultures in time, modern and historical.

Counting calories is great to start, but the main focus on counting calories should be to learn what a 'normal' portion looks like. Portion control is key regardless of what you're eating, bacon or Oreos or beans.

I think another often overlooked successful strategy is eating the same thing routinely when you're losing weight. Once you know what a normal portion looks like of, say, whole grain pasta and tomato sauce, it's easy to scoop that much that out...but if you get an unknown lasagna, what's a normal portion look like? Again, doesn't matter if it's bacon or beans, it just needs to be consistent. I suspect the smaller portions, combined with lots of walking, is why our urban European counterparts are so much thinner on average. They aren't eating a lumberjack breakfast on an office worker calorie schedule.

Both my wife and I gained weight when we started shopping at CostCo because we were suddenly eating lots of new things and the variety was both hard to track and enjoyable enough that we simply ate more. Now we're back to eating the same thing routinely.

Breakfast options :
Oatmeal
Breakfast burrito (beans and rice)
Turkey sausage/eggs

Lunch options :
Gyro and salad
Tuna and salad
Chicken tacos and salad
Black bean burgers and salad
Orange chicken, rice and veggies
Cauliflower pizza
Hummus/chicken sandwiches or wraps

Then greek yogurt with add-ins

Dinner options :
Repeat of lunch options, but different for the day

And there's a few snacks we make. and some different sides on occasion for the variety, but if we're not traveling that's 95% of our meals. We don't eat out very often, but if we want to go out with friends we do.

The nice thing is, even though we gained we never remotely got back to our heaviest and we maintained the ability to do the things we want to do. She hiked 6-9 miles a day with me in Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, etc for example.

Exercise, for me, is mandatory. Without exercise I'm less inclined to diet/eat right and having those goals motivates me. I know I want to be a certain weight for a certain event, etc.

bwframe · Oct 2, 2023

BehindBlueI's said:
... The number of people who stay "keto" over the course of a year is probably pretty small, and I'd bet it's essentially zero over 5 years. ...

Rounded five years last February.

Max Volume · Oct 2, 2023

Just checking out this thread. Lost 35 lbs down to 200. At 6'2" maybe I could loose more. Just had a hip replacement and got the required tests to be cleared. Cardiologist and GP both like that I lost the weight. All I did was quit drinking last year and it was all the beer that added the weight. Didn't care for light beer either. Don't miss it at all.

I worked with a guy that had a major belly. All he drank was soda morning, noon and night. He never drank coffee but woke
up to pop. The time he stopped he was looking very svelte. Told him he was half the man he used to be.

JTKelly · Oct 2, 2023

Keto and the recommended ideal diabetic diet are pretty near the same thing, so I'd say there are probably a few thousand at least who stick with it more than a year. I know more than a few personally who have.

Hoosier8 · Oct 3, 2023

BehindBlueI's said:
Like your chart shows, lots of things work well for awhile, but lots of things aren't sustainable. The number of people who stay "keto" over the course of a year is probably pretty small, and I'd bet it's essentially zero over 5 years. I'd also suggest there's a difference between a cookie and the same calories worth of whole grain bread or natural oats. I'm certainly not saying it won't work, I'm also saying there's more than one way to do this and that 'carbs aren't healthy' isn't a fact given the lack of obese people on carb heavy diets in many cultures in time, modern and historical.

Counting calories is great to start, but the main focus on counting calories should be to learn what a 'normal' portion looks like. Portion control is key regardless of what you're eating, bacon or Oreos or beans.

I think another often overlooked successful strategy is eating the same thing routinely when you're losing weight. Once you know what a normal portion looks like of, say, whole grain pasta and tomato sauce, it's easy to scoop that much that out...but if you get an unknown lasagna, what's a normal portion look like? Again, doesn't matter if it's bacon or beans, it just needs to be consistent. I suspect the smaller portions, combined with lots of walking, is why our urban European counterparts are so much thinner on average. They aren't eating a lumberjack breakfast on an office worker calorie schedule.

Both my wife and I gained weight when we started shopping at CostCo because we were suddenly eating lots of new things and the variety was both hard to track and enjoyable enough that we simply ate more. Now we're back to eating the same thing routinely.

Breakfast options :
Oatmeal
Breakfast burrito (beans and rice)
Turkey sausage/eggs

Lunch options :
Gyro and salad
Tuna and salad
Chicken tacos and salad
Black bean burgers and salad
Orange chicken, rice and veggies
Cauliflower pizza
Hummus/chicken sandwiches or wraps

Then greek yogurt with add-ins

Dinner options :
Repeat of lunch options, but different for the day

And there's a few snacks we make. and some different sides on occasion for the variety, but if we're not traveling that's 95% of our meals. We don't eat out very often, but if we want to go out with friends we do.

The nice thing is, even though we gained we never remotely got back to our heaviest and we maintained the ability to do the things we want to do. She hiked 6-9 miles a day with me in Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, etc for example.

Exercise, for me, is mandatory. Without exercise I'm less inclined to diet/eat right and having those goals motivates me. I know I want to be a certain weight for a certain event, etc.

All good. I cannot run anymore due to age related knee and foot issues. Biking is better but still bothers my knee. Walking is probably the least problematic.

Many on keto and carnivore lose and maintain weight, some for decades so it is sustainable.

Dieting by reducing calories but eating the same is not sustainable because we are designed to eat until full to avoid starvation during periods when food is scarce. We now have a great abundance of food but the programming is still there and for the majority of people their brain will say eat.

What I have found with carnivore is greatly reduced hunger as the diet satiates you much longer than a carb heavy diet. When I say carb heavy that is the standard American diet.

I don’t suggest to anyone that it is the only way to go but it works for me and that is what is important. I weight every Thursday and I may post my loss weekly here just for fun. Can I get to my target weight? Only time will tell but calculation says about 6 months at my current loss rate. I started at 245 and my goal is 195 which was my healthy 25 year old weight.

No one needs to defend their strategy. Do what works for your own health.

BehindBlueI's · Oct 3, 2023

Hoosier8 said:
Dieting by reducing calories but eating the same is not sustainable because we are designed to eat until full to avoid starvation during periods when food is scarce.

The goal isn't to perpetually reduce calories, it's to get to the point that 'reduced calories' is the maintenance caloric need. You get hungry running a calorie deficit eventually and nothing (other than drugs) is going to change that. You do get used to the new weight and needs. At my fattest of some 280-285, I would smash a Chinese buffet for at least 4 trips plus dessert. Now? 2 and I'm stuffed. Same food, big weight difference and years of training my body on what a normal portion is.

What I have found with carnivore is greatly reduced hunger as the diet satiates you much longer than a carb heavy diet. When I say carb heavy that is the standard American diet.

Sure, if the carbs you were eating before were from sweets and treats, I don't doubt your experience in the slightest. Heavily processed, refined, and sugary carbs =/= fiber, complex carbs, etc.

My breakfast today was 2 eggs and a 350 calorie rice/bean/cheese burrito. Roughly 500 calories, I'm 'full'. I would also be 'full' on the same amount of calories of all eggs and maybe on eggs and bacon. On pancakes with syrup? No way, I'd be smashing through 1500 calories easy. 500 calories of oatmeal and nuts with a little jelly swirled in? Stuffed. Pancakes are like tequila, portion control can be problematic...

I cannot run anymore due to age related knee and foot issues. Biking is better but still bothers my knee. Walking is probably the least problematic.

Reduced mobility in older age is the primary reason I do exercise. I was out at Yellowstone recently and, given the season, it was heavily weighted toward retirement age folks in the park at the time. Kids are still in school, etc. so not nearly as many younger people. You could see a huge difference in ability among them. We got absolutely smoked by some 70-ish year old woman and her 40-ish year old presumable son. My wife thought they were German, I thought some Nordic country, but either way they were hustling along uphill and conversing with no issues. Meanwhile some people are winded just getting out of the parking lot. I know which I want to be.

No one needs to defend their strategy. Do what works for your own health.

True enough, but when you start giving advice to others I think it's important to provide other viewpoints as well, and "carbs cause metabolic disease" is worth addressing. I've repeatedly said a meat based diet can work, just disagreed that carbs are the evil that pop-sci says they are today. Carbs today are the 90's fat. Neither is problematic if used/consumed correctly and in proper portions.

wcd · Oct 3, 2023

I think many are spot on everyone is different and you need to find what works for you and stick with it.

I think Keto may work for some, Low carb, All meat diet insert current fad. Ultimately I think consistency is the key. Exercise can Have many benefits other than burning calories. If I skip my workouts I feel less than 100% and my Ability to handle stress is diminished.

chipbennett · Oct 3, 2023

BehindBlueI's said:
The goal isn't to perpetually reduce calories, it's to get to the point that 'reduced calories' is the maintenance caloric need. You get hungry running a calorie deficit eventually and nothing (other than drugs) is going to change that. You do get used to the new weight and needs. At my fattest of some 280-285, I would smash a Chinese buffet for at least 4 trips plus dessert. Now? 2 and I'm stuffed. Same food, big weight difference and years of training my body on what a normal portion is.

Sure, if the carbs you were eating before were from sweets and treats, I don't doubt your experience in the slightest. Heavily processed, refined, and sugary carbs =/= fiber, complex carbs, etc.

My breakfast today was 2 eggs and a 350 calorie rice/bean/cheese burrito. Roughly 500 calories, I'm 'full'. I would also be 'full' on the same amount of calories of all eggs and maybe on eggs and bacon. On pancakes with syrup? No way, I'd be smashing through 1500 calories easy. 500 calories of oatmeal and nuts with a little jelly swirled in? Stuffed. Pancakes are like tequila, portion control can be problematic...

Reduced mobility in older age is the primary reason I do exercise. I was out at Yellowstone recently and, given the season, it was heavily weighted toward retirement age folks in the park at the time. Kids are still in school, etc. so not nearly as many younger people. You could see a huge difference in ability among them. We got absolutely smoked by some 70-ish year old woman and her 40-ish year old presumable son. My wife thought they were German, I thought some Nordic country, but either way they were hustling along uphill and conversing with no issues. Meanwhile some people are winded just getting out of the parking lot. I know which I want to be.

True enough, but when you start giving advice to others I think it's important to provide other viewpoints as well, and "carbs cause metabolic disease" is worth addressing. I've repeatedly said a meat based diet can work, just disagreed that carbs are the evil that pop-sci says they are today. Carbs today are the 90's fat. Neither is problematic if used/consumed correctly and in proper portions.

I'm not going to get into the weeds on this too much.

1. I think the real issue with carbs is whole-food carbs vs processed-food carbs - for multiple reasons, which includes the increase in consumption of unnatural, inflammatory, industrial seed oils

2. The Biggest Loser disproved - forever - the "science" and viability of "eat less, move more". Those contestants still have damaged metabolisms, to this day.

3. The body has zero clue what a calorie is. We consume, metabolize, and use mass, not heat-transfer energy (i.e. calories). There is not a single physiological function that understands, uses, or measures in calories. Further, calories are not even an accurate proxy for the body's energy needs or use. The body's unit of energy is ATP (adenosine triphosphate). Energy transfer is creation and release of chemical bonds - i.e. the addition and release of phospate to/from adenosine. That chemical bond energy simply does not correlate to heat-transfer energy through combustion.

Focusing on calories is, has always been, and will always be a fool's errand when pursuing optimal health.

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