New BATF ruling on stabilizing braces today

[JAL]

A couple of issues with this line of reasoning.

One, this is not our circuit court, so it may not apply if you are arrested here.
Two, joining after the ruling might not count in a court's eyes, since you were not a member at the time of the injunction.

In the end, it isn't going to matter. It is either a delay on having to comply if they lose, or it won't matter if they win.

I'm going with the email I got from FPC that was sent to all its members - that it applies to all its members regardless of jurisdiction - plus what I read in the court documents which isn't just the two I posted. Note that applicability to only a circuit court's jurisdiction isn't hard and fast. Circuit courts have issued orders applicable to all plaintiffs like this before, and occasionally applicable nationally. Same occurs with District Courts. Benitez in Southern District of Calif. has issued a number of decisions and injunctions applicable to the entire state of California and all four of its Districts, not just his. Plaintiffs are sometimes added after an injunction is issued, including automatically. Nothing in the injunction excludes anyone based on their geographic location or when they became an FPC member. It's everything that was filed in their motions and oppositions to motions that lead up to them. Lengthy reading that only a few will bother with. And I will be watching for anything significant as the case progresses . . . as the injunction is preliminary.

Well I joined. Just in case. Not that I own any of these contraptions.

Unlike the NRA, FPC are GOA are two major organizations with multiple lawsuits ongoing fighting unconstitutional Federal and State gun laws. Unlike the state and federal governments they tangle with with unlimited funds, they rely solely on dues/donations. The cost of what they do in litigation, especially in the Federal Courts, is high.

Most decisions, such as 2008 Heller, 2010 McDonald, 2016 Caetano and most recently the 2022 Bruen have an impact beyond the original, immediate and extant issue. As an example, the one-step "History and Tradition" test versus the former two-step "Public Good Balancing" test is being applied across the board, including with the "assault weapon and magazine bans", having spilled out of the 2008 Heller decision, and subsequently reinforced by the McDonald and Bruen. None of those three dealt specifically with semi-auto weapons or magazine bans. Recently in California it was applied to their approved handgun roster case.

It's why I joined FPC and GOA some time ago.

 

[JAL]

Since like I said, they essentially agreed with you on the order applying to all existing FPC members but subsequent members might be in question, you are saying I shouldn't believe either?

1. I received an email directly from FPC stating I was covered by the injunction.
2. I read FPC's news announcements on the FPC website for details - fell in line with email - which included PDFs of the court orders.
3. I read and reread the court documents including the injunction and its clarification for my own edification on Court Listener.

What FPC stated in their email, on Twitter (which I had to go find and read today) and, the actual court documents all line up. It's critical thinking and not relying on a single source of information which for many is usually report about facts the author supposedly read or found. I go for as original source as possible before relying on anything seen on Twitter. Too many fake accounts there. Someone can create an "FPC" account with that as its "name" . . . but with a different "@xxxxxxx" account name only seen in tiny print on their tweets . . . and begin spewing tweets. It's done all the time. Thus, I never rely solely on what I seen on Twitter. It's a cesspool.

 

[JAL]

In other news . . .

Rainier Arms LLC (et al.) v BATF, Northern District of Texas
(The "et al." plaintiffs include the Second Amendment Foundation and its members nationwide.)
Judge Jane J. Boyle issued a Preliminary Injunction enjoining BATF from enforcing the Pistol Brace Rule on its Named Plaintiffs, which includes Second Amendment Foundation Members, citing the 5th Circuit's Preliminary Injunction in Mock v Garland, pending the 5th Circuit appeal. In other words, she's hooking the wagon of this case to that case being adjudicated at the 5th Circuit, and will deal with any issues in her case not covered by Mock v Garland, after the 5th Circuit rules in Mock v Garland.

Second Amendment Foundation announcement of the injunction:
https://www.saf.org/saf-wins-preliminary-injunction-in-arm-brace-rule-challenge/

Court Listener Minute Entries for Rainier Arms LLC v BATF:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/29113985/rainier-arms-llc-v-bureau-of-alcohol-tabacco-firearms-and-explosives/

Preliminary Injunction Order (also attached as file):
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txnd.343209/gov.uscourts.txnd.343209.62.0.pdf

---

As before, this is a PRELIMINARY injunction pending outcome of the 5th Circuit appeal. One must remain cognizant of its status. The Pistol Brace Rule takes another torpedo below the waterline.

 

[Expat]

So FPA and SAF members are all protected by injunction… where is the NRA? GOA?

 

[JAL]

So FPA and SAF members are all protected by injunction… where is the NRA? GOA?

Regarding GOA:
GOA has litigation pending in the Southern District of Texas that I've posted about in this thread. It was initiated on February 9th. They also filed an amicus brief in the FPC lawsuit that obtained the 5th Circuit injunction.

Court Listener Minute Entry page on the lawsuit in which GOA is one of the Named Plaintiffs:
State of Texas v. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Southern District of Texas
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66800895/state-of-texas-v-bureau-of-alcohol-tobacco-firearms-and-explosives/

Note that Texas AG Paxton's recent impeachment (pending state senate trial) has no impact on this case. It was filed in the name of his AG Office, not in his name personally. Even if the Texas AG's Office withdrew, GOA and others would remain as plaintiffs. The most recent filings urge an injunction similar to that issued by the 5th Circuit for FPC et al. Those are pending, and the Southern District court for this lawsuit is taking expedited notice of them. It's similar to what occurred in the Northern District with the SAF lawsuit which resulted in its injunction, but moving a tad slower.

Filed on May 23rd by GOA after 5th Circuit injunction was issued (same day):
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txsd.1905516/gov.uscourts.txsd.1905516.41.0.pdf

Filed on May 26th by GOA after 5th Circuit clarification was issued (same day):
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txsd.1905516/gov.uscourts.txsd.1905516.44.0.pdf

---

I expect more will be forthcoming on Tuesday or Wednesday, May 30th to May 31st from the Texas Southern District. Monday is a National Holiday. Predicting an injunction pending 5th Circuit Appeal similar to the one issued in Northern District for SAF. Whether or not it beats the May 31st "drop dead" is a coin toss. I'm also a member of GOA, along with FPC and SAF, and have been for a while.

Seven Federal Court Pistol Brace lawsuits are ongoing that I'm aware of. Thread posting with summary (who and where) of all seven which I've posted about over the past four months. That posting has links to take you to all seven which link to the cases on Court Listener. It's not a "one click" summary . . . but does takes you to where the information about them resides with two or three clicks. If it's that important to someone, they'll expend the effort to follow the links.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/new-batf-ruling-on-stabilizing-braces-today.530629/post-9499271

---

Regarding NRA:
[Crickets Chirping]

 

[Paul30]

It might be worth joining the FPC just as a thank you for fighting the good fight. It might offer some protections until this is eventually knocked down by the courts too. Most likely took the brace off and are awaiting the court ruling that says they can put it back on. Either way, here is a link to the FPC for those who wish to check them out.

Firearms Policy Coalition

FPC is a coalition of hundreds of thousands of Patriots organizing to take back our Constitution and defend the inalienable, fundamental, and individual right to keep and bear arms.

www.firearmspolicy.org

 

[Expat]

I have been a NRA life member for several years (upgraded a couple times to something). I have donated to NRA-ILA since the crap started coming out about the financial issues there. I have donated to GOA several times. So yesterday I joined/donated to FPC and SAF.

 

[tcecil88]

I just joined SAF. I have been thinking about it for awhile now. They seem to be doing good work.

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

I have been a NRA life member for several years (upgraded a couple times to something). I have donated to NRA-ILA since the crap started coming out about the financial issues there. I have donated to GOA several times. So yesterday I joined/donated to FPC and SAF.

I just joined SAF. I have been thinking about it for awhile now. They seem to be doing good work.

Same. They are doing the Lord's work. Where is Wayne? Crickets. Probably on this yacht counting his suits.

 

[tcecil88]

Same. They are doing the Lord's work. Where is Wayne? Crickets. Probably on this yacht counting his suits.

The NRA isn't even on my radar anymore. I quit them and joined GOA and FPC and now SAF. Unless they get back to what they were when I was growing up and actually live up to the reputation they earned then fighting for us, then I will never rejoin them.

 

[IUKalash429]

...where is the NRA?

The fact we can't answer this speaks volumes.

"nOt AnOtHeR iNcH."

 

[JAL]

where is the NRA?

The fact we can't answer this speaks volumes.

The one thing NRA is doing that GOA, FPC and SAF haven't been, is taking all the flak publicly on social media, mainstream media, and government entities such as Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, the White House, several State AGs, ABC (The View), MSNBC, & CNN. Some of the more notorious personalities in the Twitter-verse such as David Hogg (March for Our Lives), Moms Demand Action, Everytown, Brady, and Giffords all target the NRA with their vitriol. Even the DNC's paid Gen-Z social media shills, Chris Mowrey and Harry Sisson (TikTok, Instagram and Twitter) go after NRA exclusively as the evil gun-nut organization to be exterminated. I've seen nothing from them aimed at GOA, FPC, SAF or some of the smaller 2A advocacy groups. NRA is the universal "Go-To" organization for acrimonious anti-2A hostility.

Re: David Hogg . . .
Most know who David Hogg is. He's the grifter who makes his living now on the back of his 501(c)(4) non-profit. A major Twitter personality, his "tweets" are all geared to generate more donations for his non-profit. One of the more revealing tweets was a complaint that he forgot to get a receipt at a fast-food restaurant while traveling so his non-profit could reimburse the expense (it was under $10). From what I've seen, he appears to be losing relevance and influence beyond a group of hard-core sycophantic bobble-head followers that fawn over his every tweet.

Re: Chris Mowrey and Harry Sisson . . .
If you've not seen some of the Mowrey and Sisson diatribes, they're 20 year olds producing completely over the top tirades spewing the latest White House talking points in 30-second long high volume shouting rants delivered at very high speed, similar to what AOC does when she goes into a high speed haranguing monolog. You'd think they're severe ADHD who haven't been taking their Adderall for a month or more, with a target audience of other severe ADHD who also haven't been taking their Adderall, and won't pay attention to anything for longer than 30 seconds. Mowrey is more prolific on Twitter than Sisson. Both claim to be "self-employed" TikTok content creators, but they're employed by Palette MGMT, a TikTok marketing firm hired by [drum roll] the DNC to spew their propaganda out on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, targeting the Gen-Z demographic. Their public profiles have Palette MGMT email addresses to contact them.

 

[Ingomike]

All media is a stinking cesspool of half-truths, bald faced lies, and propaganda. Finding factual or truthful postings is like a finding a non-ferrous tiny needle in a mondo haystack (which precludes using a magnet). I have a couple Some of it is entertaining in a twisted sense of how much rubbish and garbage is posted there battling for the minds of the gullible -- who don't use critical thinking and don't do their own research to original sources.

FIFY…

 

[Ingomike]

The fact we can't answer this speaks volumes.

"nOt AnOtHeR iNcH."

Your preference to bash a gun rights organization over a ten second internet search for truth speaks volumes…

Age Verification - NRA

Age Verification - NRA

NRA, 25 states sue Biden ATF to stop 'arbitrary' and 'unlawful' pistol brace rule

The NRA filed a lawsuit in North Dakota challenging the Biden administration's new rule regulating pistols equipped with stabilizing braces as short-barreled rifles.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Ingomike]

I'm going with the email I got from FPC that was sent to all its members - that it applies to all its members regardless of jurisdiction - plus what I read in the court documents which isn't just the two I posted. Note that applicability to only a circuit court's jurisdiction isn't hard and fast. Circuit courts have issued orders applicable to all plaintiffs like this before, and occasionally applicable nationally. Same occurs with District Courts. Benitez in Southern District of Calif. has issued a number of decisions and injunctions applicable to the entire state of California and all four of its Districts, not just his. Plaintiffs are sometimes added after an injunction is issued, including automatically. Nothing in the injunction excludes anyone based on their geographic location or when they became an FPC member. It's everything that was filed in their motions and oppositions to motions that lead up to them. Lengthy reading that only a few will bother with. And I will be watching for anything significant as the case progresses . . . as the injunction is preliminary.


Unlike the NRA, FPC are GOA are two major organizations with multiple lawsuits ongoing fighting unconstitutional Federal and State gun laws. Unlike the state and federal governments they tangle with with unlimited funds, they rely solely on dues/donations. The cost of what they do in litigation, especially in the Federal Courts, is high.

Most decisions, such as 2008 Heller, 2010 McDonald, 2016 Caetano and most recently the 2022 Bruen have an impact beyond the original, immediate and extant issue. As an example, the one-step "History and Tradition" test versus the former two-step "Public Good Balancing" test is being applied across the board, including with the "assault weapon and magazine bans", having spilled out of the 2008 Heller decision, and subsequently reinforced by the McDonald and Bruen. None of those three dealt specifically with semi-auto weapons or magazine bans. Recently in California it was applied to their approved handgun roster case.

It's why I joined FPC and GOA some time ago.

The NRA has suits filed too.

 

[Ingomike]

Your preference to bash a gun rights organization over a ten second internet search for truth speaks volumes…

Age Verification - NRA

Age Verification - NRA

NRA, 25 states sue Biden ATF to stop 'arbitrary' and 'unlawful' pistol brace rule

The NRA filed a lawsuit in North Dakota challenging the Biden administration's new rule regulating pistols equipped with stabilizing braces as short-barreled rifles.

www.foxnews.com

Interesting the Fox News link has preview but the NRA links say age verification, like a minor accessing NRA postings is wrong? Crazy…

 

[BigRed]

Well I joined. Just in case. Not that I own any of these contraptions.

If it saves just one dog, or one mother, or one child from being shot and murdered by an atf or fbi agent, it will be worth it.

 

[Expat]

The NRA has suits filed too.

And that doesn’t surprise me. I was wondering where my injunctive relief was though.

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

No problem if the NRA takes the flack while GOA, FPC, SAF do the heavy lift. Keep sailing Wayne...

 

[JAL]

The NRA has suits filed too.

Uhhh . . . no . . . not that I can find. The lawsuit cited in the Fox News article is actually the FRAC et al. lawsuit in the District of North Dakota, Western Division (has only one District Court with multiple divisions). Noted one other error in the article. It stated the Brace Rule was issued on January 13th, and should have read January 31st. Someone at Fox has dyslexia and I'm wondering who is proofing their copy. NRA whines about the Pistol Brace Rule, but isn't a party to the lawsuit cited.

Here is the list of Named Plaintiffs in that lawsuit copied from the Complaint filed on February 9th (I've bulleted the list):

• FIREARMS REGULATORY ACCOUNTABILITY COALITION, INC.,
• STATES OF WEST VIRGINIA, NORTH DAKOTA, ALABAMA, ALASKA, ARKANSAS, FLORIDA, GEORGIA, IDAHO, INDIANA, IOWA, KANSAS, KENTUCKY, LOUISIANA, MISSISSIPPI, MISSOURI, MONTANA, NEBRASKA, NEW HAMPSHIRE, OKLAHOMA, SOUTH CAROLINA, SOUTH DAKOTA, TENNESSEE, UTAH, VIRGINIA, and WYOMING,
• NST GLOBAL, LLC d/b/a SB TACTICAL,
• B&T USA, LLC,
• RICHARD CICERO,

Plaintiffs

National Rifle Association or "NRA" is nowhere to be found in that list.

Court Listener Minute Entries for:
Firearms Regulatory Accountability Coalition, Inc. v. Garland (1:23-cv-00024), District Court, D. North Dakota
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66802066/firearms-regulatory-accountability-coalition-inc-v-garland/

There is no entry whatsoever in all 82 of them (as of Friday May 26th) with a motion to add NRA as a Plaintiff. Nor is there any motion for leave by the NRA to file an amicus brief. In short, NRA is nowhere to be found anywhere in that lawsuit.

FRAC v Garland Complaint PDF initiating the lawsuit (which I've also attached):
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ndd.57801/gov.uscourts.ndd.57801.1.0.pdf

If NRA is somehow attached to this lawsuit in any meaningful manner, please enlighten me.
I've been unable to unearth it in the trove of documents filed with and issued by the court.