Todd Young did not waste any time in proving his continued worthlessness

[Liberty Sanders]

To be truly free, any combination and permutation of persons (and whatever else) must be allowed to call themselves married. Not just consenting adults. To be truly free anybody must be able to define themselves as any gender they desire. You are the one that is calling for government definitions to avoid chaos.

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Nope, apples and oranges.

I can define myself as a Pronghorn Antelope. But that defies reality and will never be true. If a man wants to call himself a woman he is free to do so. But he'll still be a man.

Marriage is cultural. There was a time in this country when we were largely agrarian and girls could marry as soon as they were capable of bearing children. Times changed and we don't do that anymore.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Because marriage has always meant a union between a man and a woman. Why do the slimmest of majorities of people with sexually deviant desires get to redefine words and institutions for everyone else? If they want the same benefits, they can be happy with civil unions.

I blame the church. For decades now the church has swallowed the lie that christians must be nice. They were convinced to exchange proclaiming the truth for being accepted by the culture. They confused being salt and light with being liked.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Nope, apples and oranges.

I can define myself as a Pronghorn Antelope. But that defies reality and will never be true. If a man wants to call himself a woman he is free to do so. But he'll still be a man.

Not if we’re to truly be free.

 

[BE Mike]

Freedom isn't unrestricted by law and needs to have limits. Our laws are based on morals that didn't come out of thin air. More and more, many people are living together without the benefit(s) of marriage. I think that that has a greater impact on our society than the question of gay marriage. I don't have a problem with civil unions (marriage) of any couples, as long as, the government stays out of the business of churches, i.e. requiring them to perform same sex marriages. Today there is constant pressure on Christianity in general, and Christian owned businesses in particular, by atheists and the LGBQT+ community to bend to their will. Surprisingly, the news doesn't seem to report any issues by these folks for Muslims, who have a much sterner view of the LGBQT+ and infidels.

 

[buckwacker]

Any civilized society that fails to have a consistent definition of marriage, a legal state which is the foundation for a number of legal rights and responsibilities, will degenerate into sheer chaos.

There are people right now trying to make the case that there are dozens of genders. Do you REALLY want there to be that many definitions of marriage?

Content with civil unions? Why?

The ladies for whom I served as best man when they married were married by their pastor.

They didn't want to make anyone "bend" to anything, nor were they seeking to be "coddled." They just wanted to be married.

Which they were. By a clergyman. That's a marriage, not a civil union.

The logical gymnastics you've employed here are an indication that you're emotionally invested in the topic, as also indicated by your admission of participating in gay marriages.

This disconnect is jarring, on the one hand arguing that marriage can be redefined from a union between a man and woman to any union between any number or sexes of consenting adults, while on the other arguing vociferously that one cannot be free to change their gender. That fact that you see a problem with the transgender movement is a bit amusing in light of your support for gay marriage. We're dealing with the crazy trans movement because people such as yourself threw away millennia of established tradition to make your friends feel special. So yes, it does hurt other people because we're all now sliding uncontrollably down your slippery slope into absolute sexually deviant lunacy.

 

[KLB]

The logical gymnastics you've employed here are an indication that you're emotionally invested in the topic, as also indicated by your admission of participating in gay marriages.

This disconnect is jarring, on the one hand arguing that marriage can be redefined from a union between a man and woman to any union between any number or sexes of consenting adults, while on the other arguing vociferously that one cannot be free to change their gender. That fact that you see a problem with the transgender movement is a bit amusing in light of your support for gay marriage. We're dealing with the crazy trans movement because people such as yourself threw away millennia of established tradition to make your friends feel special. So yes, it does hurt other people because we're all now sliding uncontrollably down your slippery slope into absolute sexually deviant lunacy.

I'm not sure why it is OK to be offensive towards a portion of the INGO membership like this.

 

[Ziggidy]

Stop trolling.

Trolling? It's a real question of what is moral and what's not. When is an adult an adult and what is meant by consenting?

I'm not trolling.

 

[KLB]

Trolling? It's a real question of what is moral and what's not. When is an adult an adult and what is meant by consenting?

I'm not trolling.

Since there actually is a legal definition of adult, yes you basically are.

 

[buckwacker]

I'm not sure why it is OK to be offensive towards a portion of the INGO membership like this.

What is offensive?

 

[Ziggidy]

Since there actually is a legal definition of adult, yes you basically are.

I would imagine that the definition of adult can be equally, if not more, debated on INGO. IMO, marriage is much easier defined.

 

[Ziggidy]

What is offensive?

 

[KLB]

What is offensive?

I'm sure you can figure out how one of the people you are talking about would be offended by your statements. I'm also sure you know there are a number of gay members on this forum.

 

[Ziggidy]

I'm sure you can figure out how one of the people you are talking about would be offended by your statements. I'm also sure you know there are a number of gay members on this forum.

Todd Young is laughing at us all.

My take on this discussion has nothing to do with sexual orientation and has everything to do with redefining the term marriage. I see nothing wrong with standing up for marriage being between a real man and real woman.

If through this discussion the strong opinions step on toes, so be it. People as a whole, IMO, are tired of traditions being taken away, redefined or absorbed into a nebulous meaning.

At some point a stand must be taken and for too long the live and let live mentality has eroded this country. This little word has special meaning to many and the grip to hold on to it is strong.

 

[buckwacker]

I'm sure you can figure out how one of the people you are talking about would be offended by your statements. I'm also sure you know there are a number of gay members on this forum.

Ok? So we can't speak the truth for fear of offending someone? That is precisely how we've arrived at deviants grooming children, and I won't be quiet about it because it will continue to get worse, particularly when people who should know better sit quietly and tolerate it. I am offened by what they've done to my country, but offending me doesn't carry any currency with those destroying the country through woke cultural marxism. If you haven't figured it out yet, that is the reason we dare not offend them. Every member of the alphabet club is not a militant lunatic, but they are happy enough to use their lunatic friends to bludgeon society into giving them what they want.

 

[bobzilla]

Todd Young is laughing at us all.

My take on this discussion has nothing to do with sexual orientation and has everything to do with redefining the term marriage. I see nothing wrong with standing up for marriage being between a real man and real woman.

If through this discussion the strong opinions step on toes, so be it. People as a whole, IMO, are tired of traditions being taken away, redefined or absorbed into a nebulous meaning.

At some point a stand must be taken and for too long the live and let live mentality has eroded this country. This little word has special meaning to many and the grip to hold on to it is strong.

Not every gay person was manufactured in a vat and released into the wild. Many were raised in deeply religious families. Those families have morals and beliefs similar to yours without the condescending tone and a bit more openness to be a bit more accepting of others. They believe in love, in monogamy and spending the rest of their life with that one special soul that completes them. The fact that they want to follow in their history and tradition and make it a marriage shouldn’t be ignored.

It must be really easy painting everything in black and white, good and evil and you get to make those distinctions. Sadly the world isnt black and white. There are shades of grey and all manner of colors, sounds and shapes. To be intentionally abrasive to and about anyone that doesn’t fit into your idea of reality is not a great way to live life. In fact it creates a lot of anger and frustration and degrades your quality of life. But I’m sure as a good upstanding Christian you already know that.

 

[bobzilla]

Ok? So we can't speak the truth for fear of offending someone? That is precisely how we've arrived at deviants grooming children, and I won't be quiet about it because it will continue to get worse, particularly when people who should know better sit quietly and tolerate it. I am offened by what they've done to my country, but offending me doesn't carry any currency with those destroying the country through woke cultural marxism. If you haven't figured it out yet, that is the reason we dare not offend them. Every member of the alphabet club is not a militant lunatic, but they are happy enough to use their lunatic friends to bludgeon society into giving them what they want.

So my wife is now a deviant because she teaches in a public school? I’ll be sure to chastise her when she gets home.

 

[buckwacker]

So my wife is now a deviant because she teaches in a public school? I’ll be sure to chastise her when she gets home.

What???

 

[bobzilla]

What???

You know, but it's not worth the time to interact with closed minded condescending people. If I wanted that I'd call my mother in law.

 

[buckwacker]

You know, but it's not worth the time to interact with closed minded condescending people. If I wanted that I'd call my mother in law.

Ok, take your ball and go home then.

 

[JCSR]

So is this a fact? Seems like a plan to put churches out of business.