If you claim to be a Christian, what keeps you from gathering with a local church?

[breakingcontact]

I've been thinking a little more about this and another reason comes to mind.

There is a message some (probably more than we want to admit) churches have spread over the past half century/century. "Come to church and meet God. Your life will be easy peesy and all will be well until you float away on clouds into Heaven."

Ok. I may be stretching it there a bit but you get the premise. When life gets hard and folks have heard it will be easy and things don't turn out as they think they should, they give up.

Agreed, but if folks have been presented that message, they have been presented a false message.

This is why Bible study is important. We aren't promised an easy life.

 

[breakingcontact]

If you really want to stir up a hornets nest, which church is more "correct": our 800 seat auditoriums, or the 1st century house church?

My view is that a big church CAN be genuine but the only real way for that to work is for it to be a church of churches and not built on 1 person's personality.

And as someone pointed out elsewhere, the tidy little churches can become too insular and not engaged with the world. Really though...the church is there for the believers and to be a glimpse of things to come (like why we have marriage and families), but the believers should be there as individuals reaching out to the world.

 

[OkieGirl]

I shared my simple answer to the OP's question, leaving out the sorry details of my struggles.

A person could react with compassion, or with condescension like most church goers would.

I wonder which way Jesus would have reacted?

I still do things for others, I just quit associating with people like you.

This is one of my favorite things to research right now. I'm learning a lot of what I was taught about the bible just simply omits some crazy stuff...and when you really dig in, it's hilarious what people have missed.

We won't go into how Jesus was born to an unwed mother and raised by his step-dad in a time when that just-did-not-happen. He would have been shunned and talked about in some very unkind ways.

Some quick genealogy I ran across recently that completely blew my concept of what I thought I knew...was reading about Ruth and Boaz (yes, isn't that sweet and romantic...the whole Kinsman Redeemer concept, but I digress). Did you know who Boaz's mom was? Rahab the Harlot! Yep, she married a Jewish man and they had a son named Boaz. So, Ruth and Boaz married and had a son, and their son had a son...named Jessie...who had a son named David...yep, the very same David that God loved and was the King of the Israel after Saul...the one who had a whole laundry list of stuff you aren't supposed to do, etc... So King David's Great-Great Grandmother was a Harlot. Oh, and while we are on the subject of oddities in the bible...David's second wife Abigail was an awesome woman. David was her second husband, how's that for scandal! LOL, oh and Michael (David's first wife and Saul's daughter...after Saul gave away another daughter he had promised to David to some other guy)...Michael was married off by her daddy first to David then to another husband when David was in exile. Yep, she was married...never divorced, and married off again (the whole thing, the second husband and her had kids and everything). When David returned from exile he demanded his wife back and he got her back.

LOL, so we really do get this whole 'religious' mindset in the way of what's really there. Hope you enjoyed some random 'fun facts', now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

This is one of my favorite things to research right now. I'm learning a lot of what I was taught about the bible just simply omits some crazy stuff...and when you really dig in, it's hilarious what people have missed.

We won't go into how Jesus was born to an unwed mother and raised by his step-dad in a time when that just-did-not-happen. He would have been shunned and talked about in some very unkind ways.

Some quick genealogy I ran across recently that completely blew my concept of what I thought I knew...was reading about Ruth and Boaz (yes, isn't that sweet and romantic...the whole Kinsman Redeemer concept, but I digress). Did you know who Boaz's mom was? Rahab the Harlot! Yep, she married a Jewish man and they had a son named Boaz. So, Ruth and Boaz married and had a son, and their son had a son...named Jessie...who had a son named David...yep, the very same David that God loved and was the King of the Israel after Saul...the one who had a whole laundry list of stuff you aren't supposed to do, etc... So King David's Great-Great Grandmother was a Harlot. Oh, and while we are on the subject of oddities in the bible...David's second wife Abigail was an awesome woman. David was her second husband, how's that for scandal! LOL, oh and Michael (David's first wife and Saul's daughter...after Saul gave away another daughter he had promised to David to some other guy)...Michael was married off by her daddy first to David then to another husband when David was in exile. Yep, she was married...never divorced, and married off again (the whole thing, the second husband and her had kids and everything). When David returned from exile he demanded his wife back and he got her back.

LOL, so we really do get this whole 'religious' mindset in the way of what's really there. Hope you enjoyed some random 'fun facts', now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Yikes... Almost makes Willie Nelson's song "I'm My Own Grandpa" sound biblical!

 

[OkieGirl]

Yikes... Almost makes Willie Nelson's song "I'm My Own Grandpa" sound biblical!

LOL, it's better than a tabloid and the hilarious thing is that very few people actually pick it up and read it for themselves. We'd all just rather point our fingers and press our dress pants.

I won't even go into when King Saul basically went to a mystic to summon the dead prophet Samuel...I DON'T RECALL THAT IN MY SUNDAY SCHOOL CLASSES when I was a kid at the Baptist church! What's even more hilarious is that Samuel was completely annoyed with the King and wanted to know 'why are you disturbing me!'.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

LOL, it's better than a tabloid and the hilarious thing is that very few people actually pick it up and read it for themselves. We'd all just rather point our fingers and press our dress pants.

I won't even go into when King Saul basically went to a mystic to summon the dead prophet Samuel...I DON'T RECALL THAT IN MY SUNDAY SCHOOL CLASSES when I was a kid at the Baptist church! What's even more hilarious is that Samuel was completely annoyed with the King and wanted to know 'why are you disturbing me!'.

I confess that I have not gone into it as deeply as you have but yeah, some of the "begats" portion of the Old Testament do tend to get rather confusing and possibly (probably?) incestuous.

 

[garni]

I haven't found THE church for me, I was raised up in the church of Christ, so, I'm pretty messed up anyway. My wife and I went to a holiness church for a while, but that was like a cult....
I believe in God, and Jesus died for my sins. My wife and I are not actively looking, but hope to find a church for us some day....

You have to be actively looking otherwise you will never find the right church for you.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

LOL, it's better than a tabloid and the hilarious thing is that very few people actually pick it up and read it for themselves. We'd all just rather point our fingers and press our dress pants.

I won't even go into when King Saul basically went to a mystic to summon the dead prophet Samuel...I DON'T RECALL THAT IN MY SUNDAY SCHOOL CLASSES when I was a kid at the Baptist church! What's even more hilarious is that Samuel was completely annoyed with the King and wanted to know 'why are you disturbing me!'.

I don't know if you're a fan of J.R.R. Tolkien or not (Hobbit, Lord of the Rings Trilogy), but there is actually a prequel book called "The Silmarillion" that very much reads like the Old Testament at the beginning. It's a little slow going at first, but it gets good and explains the whole background to his more well known books. I believe it was released posthumously by his children.

 

[OkieGirl]

I confess that I have not gone into it as deeply as you have but yeah, some of the "begats" portion of the Old Testament do tend to get rather confusing and possibly (probably?) incestuous.

I guess my point is that church attendance is talked about in the Bible and very much encouraged.

Think of it as going to the hospital where everyone is sick with some kinda thing...more than going to a place where you have to pretend that you are perfect and miss the point completely. We are all cracked in some kinda way, some hide theirs better than others. The point of the Bible is that Jesus came to save, the point of the 'church' is to gather together and learn/talk about it.

 

[Leo]

I fully agree with being a seeker of the truth, especially by accepting the important responsibility of self study.

I was raised in a major denomination, that was extremely strong in it's traditions. Sadly, the politics of traditions were elevated above Bibical truth. In Isaiah it is written, "line upon Line, precept upon precept" Self study gives you the insight for the story because you understand the back story.

In all fairness, the whole Harlot deal was a foretelling example of the completeness of redemption through faith. That gives a guy like me some confidence that I can receive the same complete redemption . Rahab and several others illustrate that after being redeemed through faith, the person also has a distaste for a fallen lifestyle, and generally learns to live right.

Abigail was a widow, so David marrying the woman was not a bad thing in itself, especially in a culture where women were though of as articulate beasts without any choice, and polygamy was widely accepted. Only the widow of a priest was restricted to marry only another priest. Certainly David, the shepherd boy with a good attitude, had issues on many levels, but always returned to his relationship with the Almighty. He is an illustration of forgiveness upon repentance and also serves as the lesson of long term consequences of poor choices.

That whole understanding that consequences usually stay while on this earth, is something our society wants to pretend does not exist. The three or four decades of people not wanting to pay their college loans is a perfect illustration.

And as my friend breakingcontact points out, the redeemed are redeemed from eternal damnation, not redeemed to a life of ease and luxury.

 

[Ziggidy]

This is one of my favorite things to research right now. I'm learning a lot of what I was taught about the bible just simply omits some crazy stuff...and when you really dig in, it's hilarious what people have missed.

We won't go into how Jesus was born to an unwed mother and raised by his step-dad in a time when that just-did-not-happen. He would have been shunned and talked about in some very unkind ways.

Some quick genealogy I ran across recently that completely blew my concept of what I thought I knew...was reading about Ruth and Boaz (yes, isn't that sweet and romantic...the whole Kinsman Redeemer concept, but I digress). Did you know who Boaz's mom was? Rahab the Harlot! Yep, she married a Jewish man and they had a son named Boaz. So, Ruth and Boaz married and had a son, and their son had a son...named Jessie...who had a son named David...yep, the very same David that God loved and was the King of the Israel after Saul...the one who had a whole laundry list of stuff you aren't supposed to do, etc... So King David's Great-Great Grandmother was a Harlot. Oh, and while we are on the subject of oddities in the bible...David's second wife Abigail was an awesome woman. David was her second husband, how's that for scandal! LOL, oh and Michael (David's first wife and Saul's daughter...after Saul gave away another daughter he had promised to David to some other guy)...Michael was married off by her daddy first to David then to another husband when David was in exile. Yep, she was married...never divorced, and married off again (the whole thing, the second husband and her had kids and everything). When David returned from exile he demanded his wife back and he got her back.

LOL, so we really do get this whole 'religious' mindset in the way of what's really there. Hope you enjoyed some random 'fun facts', now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Our church points that stuff out and shows how God works in spite of man.

God is faithful. His grace and mercy is always there for us who will acknowledge and accept it. He can take the worst and use it for His glory. That’s the beauty of our Lord.

It shows that in spite of our past, God can and will still use us if we allow Him to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OkieGirl]

Our church points that stuff out and shows how God works in spite of man.

God is faithful. His grace and mercy is always there for us who will acknowledge and accept it. He can take the worst and use it for His glory. That’s the beauty of our Lord.

It shows that in spite of our past, God can and will still use us if we allow Him to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I also love that God is all about covenant. The more I read the more I see that. Even when we screw up, He doesn't toss us aside. He doesn't remove the consequences of our actions but He loves us through them.

The story of David is interesting in that time and time again, after the death of David, God holds fast to the covenant He made with him. During David's life he had great times and great failures but David also held fast to 'covenant'. He wouldn't kill Saul even when Saul hunted him and at least twice David had an opportunity to kill the King and wouldn't because Saul was ordained by God. The death of Jesus on the Cross, the veil of the temple being torn, the Holy Spirit in earnest...so much speaks to God's covenant! I wish I would have picked up the Bible and read it years ago, I'm astonished as how rich it is...

 

[MCgrease08]

Why do most English speaking country's use the King James Bible which was wrote to satisfy a king? If you study the writing history of the Bible you will find most were wrote to satisfy a person.
The Alpha & Omega Bible is probably the closes translation. Most translations are from Greek translations, not the language the Bible was wrote in. Today you have a person telling the people what they think the King James Version is telling them. I don't need that. You just need to look around to know there is something more - the Load!

Give me the New Living Translation all day. I'm not necessarily looking for the one closest to the original Greek. I like the one I can understand in plain English.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Give me the New Living Translation all day. I'm not necessarily looking for the one closest to the original Greek. I like the one I can understand in plain English.

As long as the correct manuscripts were used and the correct translation style was used (literal translation), I don’t really care what version you use.

I’ve been in KJV-only churches my whole life. I do wonder though if we’re getting close to the point where the King’s English is no longer a spoken language. My church is in a pretty rough, low-income town so it’s hard to imagine tossing someone a KJV and expecting them to read it the same way they read a magazine or a newspaper.

 

[Shadow01]

He did… when talking about CHURCH discipline. But if you don’t believe in church then you can’t believe that verse hahaha

Now of course church is not a building but rather a group of true followers of Christ. Followers of Christ are encouraged to meet regularly and it’s also important to remember that almost the entire New Testament was written to churches in different regions.

My question to true followers of a Christ is why would you not want to gather regularly with other true followers of Christ? If you are eternally focused, meeting with others who are too should be pretty rewarding.

I’ve seen two posts here that show contempt for the direction their church has turned. That seems to be a good reason to not attend if you are not actively trying to push back on the bad choices of the leadership. How do you continue to attend if you have major misgivings of what is being taught?

 

[ditcherman]

I’ve seen two posts here that show contempt for the direction their church has turned. That seems to be a good reason to not attend if you are not actively trying to push back on the bad choices of the leadership. How do you continue to attend if you have major misgivings of what is being taught?

Get involved and make the world a better place?

 

[doddg]

I regularly use a "New Testament in 26 Translations" for Bible study.
It really helps give the different flavors & nuances of the original words in Hebrew in the O.T. & Greek in the N.T.
It is great for clarification in reading the English words used to communicate the original intent.
Not as detailed, I also like using the "Amplified Bible" for the same reason.

Some translations are truer to the exact words of Hebrew in the O.T. & Greek N.T.
Other translations can be simple paraphrases.
Each approach has its pros & cons.

 

[MCgrease08]

Get involved and make the world a better place?

Don't just curse the darkness. Light a torch and shine a light on it.

 

[doddg]

As long as the correct manuscripts were used and the correct translation style was used (literal translation), I don’t really care what version you use.

I’ve been in KJV-only churches my whole life. I do wonder though if we’re getting close to the point where the King’s English is no longer a spoken language. My church is in a pretty rough, low-income town so it’s hard to imagine tossing someone a KJV and expecting them to read it the same way they read a magazine or a newspaper.

The 1600s dialect of English is definitely off-putting to the uninitiated.
I grew up on it but I never hardly read it as a teen b/c of that.

I didn't start reading my Bible until I ran across "The Living Bible" while in college.
The Living Bible was a 1971 paraphrase version of the 1901 American Standard Version.

Unlike the 1611 KJV language/dialect, the Living Bible was written on a grade school reading level, haha!

I remember seeing a chart decades ago where the KJV was rated at on a 12th grade reading level.
I thought it was college reading level personally.
The NIV is a 7-8th grade reading level.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

The 1600s dialect of English is definitely off-putting to the uninitiated.
I grew up on it but I never hardly read it as a teen b/c of that.

I didn't start reading my Bible until I ran across "The Living Bible" while in college.
The Living Bible was a 1971 paraphrase version of the 1901 American Standard Version.

Unlike the 1611 KJV language/dialect, the Living Bible was written on a grade school reading level, haha!

I remember seeing a chart decades ago where the KJV was rated at on a 12th grade reading level.
I thought it was college reading level personally.
The NIV is a 7-8th grade reading level.

I’ve heard that at the time it was written, the KJV was at a 3rd grade level.