Black man shot in Kenosha, riots starting all over again...

[2A_Tom]

I'm confused. We're on the side of the 17 year old anti-government anarchist who brought an AR15 from out of state to protect BLM protesters and then decided to protect a car lot. Do I have that right? I'd hate to not be on the right side of this issue.

Objection, facts not in evidence.

I am on the side Of the 17 year old that was chased, attacked and defended himself from serious bodily harm or death.

 

[ditcherman]

No, you're pretty much 180 degrees off.

Wait what?
Or is your purple broken?

 

[dusty88]

I'm confused. We're on the side of the 17 year old anti-government anarchist who brought an AR15 from out of state to protect BLM protesters and then decided to protect a car lot. Do I have that right? I'd hate to not be on the right side of this issue.

Whatever he was trying to protect, it's basically a noble effort to hope you can do so without hurting any good guys, or getting yourself hurt.

and his actual performance (at least what we can see) is impressive

The problem was his judgment in going. While I can morally see it might have been for a good cause, the risk was high. Was he prepared for the legal risk? We still have a functioning society with videos, police, prosecutors, etc. If he had much training, he should have known that 17 yr olds can't carry rifles legally in Wisconsin. If it turns out he's 18, maybe that changes things but it's still not something to do lightly.

Also, while all of us know you can carry a rifle and be a non-violent person, it's also provocative to some people.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

So we're not on the kid's side now?

He was pro-police, not Antifa. So yes, most of us are on his side. Not sure about you.

 

[ditcherman]

Whatever he was trying to protect, it's basically a noble effort to hope you can do so without hurting any good guys, or getting yourself hurt.

and his actual performance (at least what we can see) is impressive

The problem was his judgment in going. While I can morally see it might have been for a good cause, the risk was high. Was he prepared for the legal risk? We still have a functioning society with videos, police, prosecutors, etc. If he had much training, he should have known that 17 yr olds can't carry rifles legally in Wisconsin. If it turns out he's 18, maybe that changes things but it's still not something to do lightly.

Also, while all of us know you can carry a rifle and be a non-violent person, it's also provocative to some people.

Just to add my thoughts to what you have pointed out, I think there could be a question of the kid chasing down the guy he shot, because if I'm understanding correctly he had something that may have been an inert molitov cocktail thrown at him? That is not exactly self defense, that is not fleeing. The fleeing came later, sure, but a jury may rule that the fleeing never would have need to have happened if the shooter had ignored the thrown object.

 

[rooster]

Found these images on another sight. Stills taken from the chaotic video of the shooting by the young man from Illinois. certainly adds some context to issue. He and all parties involved are quite frankly lucky to be alive ( from that part of the confrontation)
https://imgur.com/a/zXs2UGn

 

[HoughMade]

Just to add my thoughts to what you have pointed out, I think there could be a question of the kid chasing down the guy he shot, because if I'm understanding correctly he had something that may have been an inert molitov cocktail thrown at him? That is not exactly self defense, that is not fleeing. The fleeing came later, sure, but a jury may rule that the fleeing never would have need to have happened if the shooter had ignored the thrown object.

Looked like a plastic bag to me.

 

[Alpo]

Just to add my thoughts to what you have pointed out, I think there could be a question of the kid chasing down the guy he shot, because if I'm understanding correctly he had something that may have been an inert molitov cocktail thrown at him?

I seen plenty of Unertl's. But I ain't never seen no Inertl in a riot.

 

[ditcherman]

Looked like a plastic bag to me.

I have heard "molotov cocktail that didn't go off or plastic bag", either way point stands that at that point it wasn't true self defense. I'm still on the kids side at this point.
I guess if it really was a plastic bag, the kid could claim he was defending all aquatic life from pollution and the perp needed to die to save the world.

Remember when we were so mad at the idea of regulating plastic straws? We had no idea that those were the good old days.

 

[Route 45]

Found these images on another sight. Stills taken from the chaotic video of the shooting by the young man from Illinois. certainly adds some context to issue. He and all parties involved are quite frankly lucky to be alive
https://imgur.com/a/zXs2UGn

 

[ditcherman]

I seen plenty of Unertl's. But I ain't never seen no Inertl in a riot.

I had to google Unertl. Sorry. And I'm sorry I still don't get it. Dad joke? I do get that all the time.

 

[Mikey1911]

OK class, today we will be discussing the effectiveness of the 5.56 NATO cartridge in close combat situations.

Dude better learn to wipe with his left.

M855 with M856 tracer, or M193 with M196 tracer?

 

[ditcherman]

Karma, something something.

 

[dusty88]

Just to add my thoughts to what you have pointed out, I think there could be a question of the kid chasing down the guy he shot, because if I'm understanding correctly he had something that may have been an inert molitov cocktail thrown at him? That is not exactly self defense, that is not fleeing. The fleeing came later, sure, but a jury may rule that the fleeing never would have need to have happened if the shooter had ignored the thrown object.

The earliest video I saw of the event shows the shooter running from the "guy with red shirt on his head". Did I miss something before that?

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I joined the Army when I was 17 and went through Basic, AIT, Jump School ans was permenant party at Ft. Bragg, NC. for 4 months, when I turned 18.

In the eightys a friend ( Geslack ) that was 82nd and I, more than once stumbled out of the Parachute.....

 

[Route 45]

The earliest video I saw of the event shows the shooter running from the "guy with red shirt on his head". Did I miss something before that?

Is that the guy who basically gave him consent to shoot him earlier in the evening?

If so...he got what he wanted.

 

[muncie21]

If the sequence in the below link is correct, here's what happened:
1) The armed guys at the gas station were supposedly anti-government and there to protect private property, but were OK with the rioters destroying government property. You hear their leader say this to the rioters/protesters in the first video.
2) A rioter and one of the armed guard appear to get into a disagreement, something is thrown at the guy with the rifle. A short chase ensues and the rifle dude shoots the rioter in the head
3) As shooter is running/jogging down the street away from the dude he just shot, the crowd realizes what he did, chases and knocks him to the ground.
4) While shooter is on the ground skateboard dude hits shooter with his board, shooter then fires and hits him in the chest
5) Medic dude was running towards shooter at about the same time, medic has a pistol in his hand.
6) After shooting skateboard dude, shooter hits medic in the arm pretty close to point blank.
7) Shooter gets up and proceeds to walk towards the cops with his arms up. Cops have no idea what is happening and when they hear there's an injury they proceed past the shooter towards the 2 dudes he just shot. Doubt the cops realized he was the shooter as directly across from where the shooter is walking is the gas station where the little gang of dudes with guns have hanging out all night.


https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=C1Sjs_1598460586

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Just to add my thoughts to what you have pointed out, I think there could be a question of the kid chasing down the guy he shot, because if I'm understanding correctly he had something that may have been an inert molitov cocktail thrown at him? That is not exactly self defense, that is not fleeing. The fleeing came later, sure, but a jury may rule that the fleeing never would have need to have happened if the shooter had ignored the thrown object.

That is what i thought the first time i watched the vid.

After watching it a few times, I think the shooter is running from right to left., Red shirt is chasing him.
Red shirt throws something at the shooter, misses. Shooter keeps running towards cars on left and turns towards red shirt who has caught up with him. Another guy with a rifle (militia2 for the sake of reference here) chases red shirt from right.

Shooter shoots red shirt, and continues moving left, hooks around the cars and circles back to redshirt who is proned out.

As shooter circles back to redshirt, militia2 approaches redshirt (covering him with long gun). Militi2 realizes redshirt is shot and starts first aid and shooter takes off.

I think i originally mistook militia2 as the shooter and thought he was chasing down a fleeing redshirt, i now think that the shooter was running from redshirt who was chasing shooter and militia2 was chasing them.

It is kind of a shuffle. But if you start at the end of the video and walk it back, i think you can see that redshirt was chasing the shooter who was running away until he turns at the parked cars and fires.

It looks a lot like the guy chasing redshirt was the shooter, but i don't think he was. I think that was ( militia2) who stayed and gave aid. Course, I could be wrong .

 

[HoughMade]

If the sequence in the below link is correct, here's what happened:
1) The armed guys at the gas station were supposedly anti-government and there to protect private property, but were OK with the rioters destroying government property. You hear their leader say this to the rioters/protesters in the first video.
2) A rioter and one of the armed guard appear to get into a disagreement, something is thrown at the guy with the rifle. A short chase ensues and the rifle dude shoots the rioter in the head
3) As shooter is running/jogging down the street away from the dude he just shot, the crowd realizes what he did, chases and knocks him to the ground.
4) While shooter is on the ground skateboard dude hits shooter with his board, shooter then fires and hits him in the chest
5) Medic dude was running towards shooter at about the same time, medic has a pistol in his hand.
6) After shooting skateboard dude, shooter hits medic in the arm pretty close to point blank.
7) Shooter gets up and proceeds to walk towards the cops with his arms up. Cops have no idea what is happening and when they hear there's an injury they proceed past the shooter towards the 2 dudes he just shot. Doubt the cops realized he was the shooter as directly across from where the shooter is walking is the gas station where the little gang of dudes with guns have hanging out all night.


https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=C1Sjs_1598460586

CF

 

[Tombs]

Notice the facemask of the guy who was shot in the arm. Literally a satanic goat symbol on his mask.

I'm confused. We're on the side of the 17 year old anti-government anarchist who brought an AR15 from out of state to protect BLM protesters and then decided to protect a car lot. Do I have that right? I'd hate to not be on the right side of this issue.

So you're saying he deserved the death penalty for being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

No, absolutely not. Armed rioters were trying to murder him by swarming on him when he fell down.
Doesn't matter what belief system you have, everyone has the right of self defense in that situation.

He should be commended for having the presence of mind to not shoot the last dude who came after him but put his hands up.
That was a split second decision, and he could have made that shot without judgement from me.

Also "out of state," while factually correct is misleading. He lived 26 miles away from this.