List Your Shooters, Part IV

[Alpo]

This pandemic/anarchy/recession is driving everyone crazy. Everyone has a bad day. Can't we let it go at that?

I hate masks. Hard to breathe. I avoid wearing them by not being around other people at all. But, in terms of the things that get my blood boiling right now...it's anarchy and racial preference. I don't have time to deal with masks and marxists. Being mad at one thing is a lot more useful (to me) than being mad at everything.

So...maybe we ought to cut each other a little slack? This is a really good community of people and some of us are buttheads at least part time.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

There is plenty of that kind of **** talk over in Twitter and Facebook for one to engage in if they so chose to. I don’t recall anyone openly calling Paul vile names or jumping him for “not walking the line” or “bending the knee” just because they disagreed with him. I think you just need to stop with the constant chastising.

It was your post that made me post here.

I’m all for a spirited discussion but when that discussion devolves into openly denigrating other members that you disagree with it is a clear violation of not only forum debate decorum but also strict forum rules.

Especially if one was formerly in a position to enforce those rules.

You're baiting for a ban, and you're not the only one that does this. You've been around FAR long enough to know PaulF and that he isn't in need of this ban you're looking for. You know it's easier to use your words to work these disagreements out, but you seem to be looking for the quick-and-dirty way out of the discussion by encouraging a ban on him.

If I'm wrong, please correct me. Not "chastising", just calling out what looks to be ****ty behavior by people that should know better. Some of you really need to be called out sometimes, maybe you just don't recognize when you're acting in bad faith.

 

[two70]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. A person I consider to be one of the more "extreme" here now speaking with a clear mind and using different words.... and speaking of Paul as a "victim" of the "other side" or some other nonsense **** like that.

Then ending with some bull**** about "I hope he gets better".

**** sake, this is why INGO is insufferable lately.

This entire situation is just another effort to root out another person that doesn't walk the line, bend the knee.

I'd hardly call bwf extreme, I've never seen him make a personal attack or disparage INGO as others have done. The idea that minority view status has any place in how the rules are enforced sure seems a lot like the SJW bs you rightly crusade against.

 

[PaulF]

Ya. I don’t agree with Paul on “Region” either. I mean. Really. He seems to hate “region” as if it’s neither here or there. But what does “region” have to do with your lord and savior?

For the record....

I love Region. MT. Baldy is a Hoosier treasure.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

It was your post that made me post here.



You're baiting for a ban, and you're not the only one that does this. You've been around FAR long enough to know PaulF and that he isn't in need of this ban you're looking for. You know it's easier to use your words to work these disagreements out, but you seem to be looking for the quick-and-dirty way out of the discussion by encouraging a ban on him.

If I'm wrong, please correct me. Not "chastising", just calling out what looks to be ****ty behavior by people that should know better. Some of you really need to be called out sometimes, maybe you just don't recognize when you're acting in bad faith.

I can't speak for KG1, but I never called for a ban, nor did I report Paul's post or anything like that. I did tell him that I took exception to what he was saying about people here. His response was to double down. Seems to me that a more rational response might have been to walk back the vitriol just a tad and I think that would have ended the brouhaha then and there. Having a bad day? I get that. But given the opportunity to take the edge off and not doing so just isn't cool IMHO.

Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, I don't care. Make your case and be done with it. I don't like personal attacks and insults though, and I thought that was uncalled for.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Hi Paul.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I can't speak for KG1, but I never called for a ban, nor did I report Paul's post or anything like that. I did tell him that I took exception to what he was saying about people here. His response was to double down. Seems to me that a more rational response might have been to walk back the vitriol just a tad and I think that would have ended the brouhaha then and there. Having a bad day? I get that. But given the opportunity to take the edge off and not doing so just isn't cool IMHO.

Wear a mask, don't wear a mask, I don't care. Make your case and be done with it. I don't like personal attacks and insults though, and I thought that was uncalled for.

Right, people get heated. It just happens on a forum.

Use words, disagree, tell each other why they're wrong, explain yourselves, etc... but seeing people throw around the "well technically that's against the rules..." thing is just INGO's little cancel culture emerging. Yeah, both sides have it. Bring up rules to a newbie. Don't ban-bait a long-timer, it just reeks of virtue signaling.

 

[Alpo]

Right, people get heated. It just happens on a forum.

Use words, disagree, tell each other why they're wrong, explain yourselves, etc... but seeing people throw around the "well technically that's against the rules..." thing is just INGO's little cancel culture emerging. Yeah, both sides have it. Bring up rules to a newbie. Don't ban-bait a long-timer, it just reeks of virtue signaling.

Jamil? Is that you?

Reported for using bad words!

 

[PaulF]

Hi Paul.

Hi back DD.

I did double down. If I'm wrong about this I'm fine with being wrong. I have considered the anti-mask position and, frankly, I find it ridiculous. If you have to walk trough a lions den a pointy stick is pretty awful protection...but I'd rather have it with me than not. I simply cannot support the anti-mask rhetoric.

Jamil's right. It's contempt, though I disagree with his assertion that it comes from a place of superiority. I have tried to make it very clear over the years that I hold myself in much lower esteem than I do most anyone else.

It comes from a place of frustration. The political landscape has been taken over by the extremes, who are far too happy to take a winner-take-all, scorched earth approach to bring about productive or lasting coalition.

The crazies (on both sides) have has full run of the asylum for so long their behaviors are becoming institutionalized. It's coming from every corner of the political landscape, and it's infuriating to me.

A few people here actually know me...that has to be the reason they have given me so much leash to run with.

I was fully expecting to be banned following my initial post in that thread. CM is absolutely right...I would have banned anyone else for exactly the same thing. I hope he knows my tirade has nothing to do with him...I hold Tim in the highest regard, along with the rest of the current and former INGO staff. My tirade was a reactionary vent, aimed at people's willingness to swallow nonsense, certainly not directed at any specific group of or individual INGO user(s).

Hive mind thinking disgusts me, and my vitriol is a reaction to that disgust. If INGO thinks it doesn't happen here I suggest INGO takes a closer look.

Bug is also right... to a degree. I do tend to wait until my blood is already boiling to post anymore...in the political section anyway.

 

[Sigblitz]

No one was singled out for a personal attack. Just pointing it out. Flame suit on.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Thanks Paul. That was a well-reasoned explanation. And I do get it. Everything (inside and outside internet forums) is frustrating right now and I understand tempers flaring. People have been worn to a frazzle by circumstances over which they feel they have no control. I've been amazed at the pages and pages of folks basically repeating themselves over mask or no mask, coronavirus studies, etc., etc.. I'm also aware that many are firmly entrenched in their views and aren't going to change them. It is what it is. I try not to let that drive me crazy. What I do realize is that I can only control my behavior.

I wear a mask in situations where I'm asked to and/or where it makes sense to me. I'm not in favor of mandates. I'm not going to freak out if I see someone in the store that's not wearing one even when it is mandated. It's not worth my sanity. I'll also be respectful of others' wishes and if I'm not wearing a mask, then I'll keep my distance. That's just common courtesy, something which is in short supply these days.

 

[churchmouse]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. A person I consider to be one of the more "extreme" here now speaking with a clear mind and using different words.... and speaking of Paul as a "victim" of the "other side" or some other nonsense **** like that.

Then ending with some bull**** about "I hope he gets better".

**** sake, this is why INGO is insufferable lately.

This entire situation is just another effort to root out another person that doesn't walk the line, bend the knee.

Brother if you find us so insufferable then step off.
As much that you have offered this forum I salute you. And respect you.

But in this one you are off the path. Please. Just please.

I was the one circling the wagons and considering dusting off the hammer. It was me. Anybody in this thread care to herd some cats for a while. This position is open as I have considered stepping away with what little sanity and patience I still posses.

Alpo nailed it. The pressure cooker we have been subjected to by those in power has had the desired effect. We are all skittish and many are afraid. Some of us (myself included) are just so pi$$ed off right now at all of this madness. Makes no sense. None. It has become increasingly difficult for me not to just start punting people off the playground and a few have experienced this.

My entire reason for posting this up in this thread was to bring the situation to the fore yet some of you dips seemed to miss that. Shame on you.
Seems it worked out as I wanted it to. It would be a sad day if I was forced to ban a member over what has been well described in this thread.
Paul made his rebuttal. It will stand but know this to all involved. My patience is near gone. We have a very simple set of rules. They are designed to simplify guiding the forum. Staff has the final say in how this place is ran. We have the full support of Tex. If this idiocy continues we might become restricted on the discussions we now have at our pleasure. This is the only one of the sites Tex administers that these discussions are allowed with the freedoms we enjoy. If that happens no one can say that I and the staff did not care or try.

Denigrate the entire forum and you will get the fly swatter.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Hi back DD.

I did double down. If I'm wrong about this I'm fine with being wrong. I have considered the anti-mask position and, frankly, I find it ridiculous. If you have to walk trough a lions den a pointy stick is pretty awful protection...but I'd rather have it with me than not. I simply cannot support the anti-mask rhetoric.

Jamil's right. It's contempt, though I disagree with his assertion that it comes from a place of superiority. I have tried to make it very clear over the years that I hold myself in much lower esteem than I do most anyone else.

It comes from a place of frustration. The political landscape has been taken over by the extremes, who are far too happy to take a winner-take-all, scorched earth approach to bring about productive or lasting coalition.

The crazies (on both sides) have has full run of the asylum for so long their behaviors are becoming institutionalized. It's coming from every corner of the political landscape, and it's infuriating to me.

A few people here actually know me...that has to be the reason they have given me so much leash to run with.

I was fully expecting to be banned following my initial post in that thread. CM is absolutely right...I would have banned anyone else for exactly the same thing. I hope he knows my tirade has nothing to do with him...I hold Tim in the highest regard, along with the rest of the current and former INGO staff. My tirade was a reactionary vent, aimed at people's willingness to swallow nonsense, certainly not directed at any specific group of or individual INGO user(s).

Hive mind thinking disgusts me, and my vitriol is a reaction to that disgust. If INGO thinks it doesn't happen here I suggest INGO takes a closer look.

Bug is also right... to a degree. I do tend to wait until my blood is already boiling to post anymore...in the political section anyway.

You do realize that’s how some of us anti-maskers view the pro-masker crowed.

 

[PaulF]

You do realize that’s how some of us anti-maskers view the pro-masker crowed.

I do.

Not only that, I realize that it is justified...the crazies are leading the choir from every corner of the political landscape right now, and I'm just over it.

I hope you guys realize that I'm just as disgusted by similar behavior from other political corners. Where I become aware of groupthink I recoil.

 

[BugI02]

This pandemic/anarchy/recession is driving everyone crazy. Everyone has a bad day. Can't we let it go at that?

I hate masks. Hard to breathe. I avoid wearing them by not being around other people at all. But, in terms of the things that get my blood boiling right now...it's anarchy and racial preference. I don't have time to deal with masks and marxists. Being mad at one thing is a lot more useful (to me) than being mad at everything.

So...maybe we ought to cut each other a little slack? This is a really good community of people and some of us are buttheads at least part time.

Nunh unh, not me

 

[KG1]

It was your post that made me post here.



You're baiting for a ban, and you're not the only one that does this. You've been around FAR long enough to know PaulF and that he isn't in need of this ban you're looking for. You know it's easier to use your words to work these disagreements out, but you seem to be looking for the quick-and-dirty way out of the discussion by encouraging a ban on him.

If I'm wrong, please correct me. Not "chastising", just calling out what looks to be ****ty behavior by people that should know better. Some of you really need to be called out sometimes, maybe you just don't recognize when you're acting in bad faith.

Let me try to attempt to “correct” you and it will be my last. In no way was I “baiting for a ban” I would charge you with finding anything remotely posted by me to get another member banned simply because they might have a different opinion than I do. You won’t find it.

Where I took issue is when the debate denegrated to the lowest common denominator.

Like I said before. There is plenty of vile name calling and vitriol in other social media outlets and I believe there are at least some of us that don’t want to see it percolating here.

Other than that I do not care if people from differing opinions want to engage in a debate. I would not attempt to silence anyone from doing so.

 

[T.Lex]

I have an idea. Maybe we should all start with the premise that other people have moral agency over their decisions and are making conscious decisions. What if there really isn't any groupthink or hive mentality? That would mean certain ramifications flow from that - for "us" and "them" but it would also help us all deal with each other a bit better. IMHO.

If someone is putting you at risk, maybe the rational choice is to not spend time with them.

If you are putting someone else at risk, maybe understand that people won't want to spend time with you.

Mixing in a shower every once in awhile might help, too. I mean, I know everyone has let themselves go a little during the pandemic (except for me; I remain Adonis personified), but when walking around in public, there's no real way to mute the camera.

 

[BugI02]

Dude's not banned, why even bring this up here?

Why even talk as though he is, or hopefully as though he will be, feigning virtue about how much you like him but "gee golly he sure broke some rules".

Lot of cringe here tonight.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. A person I consider to be one of the more "extreme" here now speaking with a clear mind and using different words.... and speaking of Paul as a "victim" of the "other side" or some other nonsense **** like that.

Then ending with some bull**** about "I hope he gets better".

**** sake, this is why INGO is insufferable lately.

This entire situation is just another effort to root out another person that doesn't walk the line, bend the knee.

It was your post that made me post here.



You're baiting for a ban, and you're not the only one that does this. You've been around FAR long enough to know PaulF and that he isn't in need of this ban you're looking for. You know it's easier to use your words to work these disagreements out, but you seem to be looking for the quick-and-dirty way out of the discussion by encouraging a ban on him.

If I'm wrong, please correct me. Not "chastising", just calling out what looks to be ****ty behavior by people that should know better. Some of you really need to be called out sometimes, maybe you just don't recognize when you're acting in bad faith.

Dude, with respect to posturing, you near single-handedly got the 'Race to 50' thread closed because we weren't nice enough to the new guys to satisfy you, speaking of cringe. Pepperidge Farm remembers

When you become a mod you can fix all the problems you perceive with INGO and run it to suit yourself - but today's not that day. You can't school people who don't accept you as a teacher/role model

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Dude, with respect to posturing, you near single-handedly got the 'Race to 50' thread closed because we weren't nice enough to the new guys to satisfy you, speaking of cringe. Pepperidge Farm remembers

When you become a mod you can fix all the problems you perceive with INGO and run it to suit yourself - but today's not that day. You can't school people who don't accept you as a teacher/role model

Get a new shtick, the "mod" lines are old.

I just don't care anymore. People here get comfortable doing things that they voice opposition to. "I have thick skin!" often being followed by thin-skinned reactions.

People should be called-out when they're behaving like what they campaign against. It's hard to claim to be anti-SJW when you use SJW-tactics to try and cancel people on your own side.

You're a long-timer, you've been around. Do you agree with preemptively discussing the banning of a long-timer like PaulF in an open thread, as though he isn't even here? As though it's a forgone conclusion? That's what's hard to look at, and justify. I don't think you've ever resorted to that. You're much more into the discussion/debate, and you effectively use your words. Even when things get personal, you don't start beating on the ban drum. That's not your style.

So look at my very first line, and answer it (if you want), and be honest with yourself - Why bring it up here if he's not even banned? (Other than to try and push/influence a ban)

 

[BugI02]

...
Bug is also right...

repost for posterity