Uspsa cheating issue

[scheesman]

Perhaps a better way to have busted this guy, would have been to alert the RM at his next major match and have the RM watch the guy w/ a timer in spy mode. Catch him red-handed so to speak. Take the youtube/shot-coach "tech" out of it for HQ and let the issue be raised by a L2 or L3 RM. Less drama, but better results. It maybe could have given a chance to bust some of his buddies where there's now no youtube evidence for... Youtube could have been used to show he was doing it for so long.

Problem with that is: what if the RM misses something? You've intentionally tainted (yes, I said taint) the entire major match by trying to catch him "in the act". And as was said earlier, many people have gone ostrich on this, refusing to even consider the fact that he could be cheating. So what makes you think the RM would truly give it his full attention? Not to mention, the RM has many other things to do at a major match than try to catch one RO in a "sting"...

 

[scheesman]

Just saw a Facebook post from Chuck Anderson launching a formal investigation into the allegations agains Paul Hendrix. So they are definitely acting, and doing so publicly. That's a good second step...

 

[rhino]

I don't even really care about the scores, but this is kind of douche bag cheating is unacceptable and I agree that suspending or revoking his RO credential should be the tip of the iceberg. If during the investigation the evidence is verified and USPSA concludes he is guilty, I don't want to see his name in any more match results.

Things like this usually don't happen in a vacuum. People don't just do one dishonest and dishonorable thing in one avenue of their life. It's almost always a part of a bigger pattern.

 

[jakemartens]

I just got approval from the BOD to do the actual investigation on this. If anyone has videos, names info whatever, please email them to me at area1@uspsa.org. If you're not comfortable sending it to a USPSA server, stop, take off your tinfoil hat and email it to my personal account at chuck@andersontactical.com. I need the video, native video ideal but I'll take FB or YouTube links if it's not available, and as much info as you can give, shooter name and number, match and stage it came from. I could also use the name and email of the person sending the info to me. If you don't want to give it I understand, but it's going to be prioritized lower than info that comes in with a name associated. I'm going to busy and won't be able to hunt it down spread across FaceBook and various forums.*

Thanks,*
Chuck Anderson
USPSA Area 1 Director*

 

[rvb]

Problem with that is: what if the RM misses something? You've intentionally tainted (yes, I said taint) the entire major match by trying to catch him "in the act". And as was said earlier, many people have gone ostrich on this, refusing to even consider the fact that he could be cheating. So what makes you think the RM would truly give it his full attention? Not to mention, the RM has many other things to do at a major match than try to catch one RO in a "sting"...

yea, i dunno... was just thinking outloud, wondering if there are others doing this as well... since we have no video of HIM shooting. It wouldn't need the RM's "full attention" to watch him on spy mode periodically. Worst you'd have to do is have the guys that squadded w/ him on staff day re-shoot a couple stages. HQ has proven it's not the greatest at this tech stuff, and I wonder how much the issue has been "tainted" w/ so much of the evidence being youtube and stopwatches vs a whitnessed account from a match official??

-rvb

 

[Snizz1911]

I'm sure the RO rights being suspended is just the start. It will take a little time for them to sort out, and I'm sure like anything of this magnitude they want to make sure they have their ducks in a row.

This guy has been in the sport for 25+ years. I can't imagine losing something that you've put that much time and effort into, I would think that would be a crushing blow. If he gets the perma ban his life is gonna change big time I would think.

 

[rvb]

I just got approval from the BOD to do the actual investigation on this....
Thanks,*
Chuck Anderson
USPSA Area 1 Director*

-rvb

 

[Rob377]

I don't even really care about the scores, but this is kind of douche bag cheating is unacceptable and I agree that suspending or revoking his RO credential should be the tip of the iceberg. If during the investigation the evidence is verified and USPSA concludes he is guilty, I don't want to see his name in any more match results.

Things like this usually don't happen in a vacuum. People don't just do one dishonest and dishonorable thing in one avenue of their life. It's almost always a part of a bigger pattern.

Considering his day job, that would mean he probably screwed people a lot worse than adding a few seconds to a stage time.

 

[Snizz1911]

Ok hypothetical question, if/when he gets banned do you think USPSA would inform other associations like IDPA and NRA action pistol etc? Or will he have free reign to put on a vest and shoot another discipline? Would/could the other associations not allow him to shoot because of the allegations in USPSA?

 

[scheesman]

Ok hypothetical question, if/when he gets banned do you think USPSA would inform other associations like IDPA and NRA action pistol etc? Or will he have free reign to put on a vest and shoot another discipline? Would/could the other associations not allow him to shoot because of the allegations in USPSA?

That's a difficult question. Most matches don't require membership in the sanctioning body. You can go shoot an IDPA match without being an IDPA member, so would an IDPA ban mean anything? So really it comes down to whether or not the local matches/ranges allow him to shoot. Minimally, I would think he would be barred from scoring. But like I read somewhere, do you really want someone who has been proven guilty of cheating (if he is) of taping and resetting stages?

 

[Tacticalreload]

Well, then the hard & fast rule should be, "if you are not confident that you can shoot safely (keep the rounds from going over the berm) at this range", you can not shoot that stage, and you 'lose' that stage completely.

Watched a few of the YouTube videos linked by the poster on Doodie Project. Wow, they're using 'race' gun / rigs to shoot THAT course? That's pretty sad.


Oh well, it's their game, they can play it however they want. If they're outright cheating or 'gaming' (which apparently is 'okay') then it's NO indicator whatsoever of shooting proficiency.

LOL, it's your lie, tell it however ya like!

Yea thats USPSA for you. most of them won't shoot with stock carry guns. I shoot IDPA because its more training for real life situations. I'm I'm going to my first USPSA match Sunday at ACC to see how good these USPSA guys think they are! I have a feeling they won't be happy. I may even wear my vest and do everything from concealment

 

[JJJ]

I'm not super sure but I'm thinking you can't shoot very many IDPA matches without being a member. At least if everybody is playing it by their rules.

 

[Rob377]

Yea thats USPSA for you. most of them won't shoot with stock carry guns. I shoot IDPA because its more training for real life situations. I'm I'm going to my first USPSA match Sunday at ACC to see how good these USPSA guys think they are! I have a feeling they won't be happy. I may even wear my vest and do everything from concealment

Great!

I cant wait to see how a real shooter does it.

 

[Tacticalreload]

Rob377. From the few posts i've read. you seem like you shoot a lot around here. If you want to squad together Sunday I can probably give you some good pointers

I have trained a lot of shooters who made Master in IDPA after just a few months of training with me.

 

[scheesman]

Yea thats USPSA for you. most of them won't shoot with stock carry guns. I shoot IDPA because its more training for real life situations. I'm I'm going to my first USPSA match Sunday at ACC to see how good these USPSA guys think they are! I have a feeling they won't be happy. I may even wear my vest and do everything from concealment

All trigger time prepares you for real life situations. Any time you can pull the trigger in an "active" situation, it's a good thing. Learning to clear malfunctions while on the clock is a good thing. Learning to get over the initial "shock" of hearing gunfire before getting in the fight is a good thing. For you to sit there and say that one has more value than another is just silly, especially by your own admission that this will be your first USPSA match. I have shot matches of all disciplines, and NONE of them is direct preparation for a real life firearm situation. But I know that the fact that I've fired 10's of thousands of rounds from dozens of different guns in thousands of scenarios means chances are I'm better prepared than the other guy.

 

[Tacticalreload]

you are right scheesman. anything is better than nothing!

 

[partyboy6686]

Rob377 correct me if im wrong but aren't you ranked a Master in both Single Stack and Production Division in USPSA?

 

[bwframe]

Rob377. From the few posts i've read. you seem like you shoot a lot around here. If you want to squad together Sunday I can probably give you some good pointers

I have trained a lot of shooters who made Master in IDPA after just a few months of training with me.

 

[rvb]

lots of trash talk in this thread from guys who have never shot uspsa (but who aren't afraid to tell us what it is and isn't)...
not sure why, in a thread about uspsa officiating issues. at least now we can debate which sport is more "real world," that'll be productive and on-topic.

I wish I could make it this weekend so I could also get some pointers from an idpa master....

-rvb

 

[Tacticalreload]

Serioulsy though….if anybody from Indiana want to squad with me I can give anyone free pointers. I'm don't making money off this stuff! Just want to shoot and have fun! I also shoot a lot of 3 gun. doesn't look like there is much of that in IN. Rockcastle is close enough though.