'Gun loving liberals' are welcome to the debate, but who can they vote for?

[indiucky]

I am going to have to change my avatar...

Please don't Jack...I don't think you are a troll...

It seems that (some, not even close to all but some) Liberal INGO'ers defininition of a troll is anyone who espouses an opinion different from Pop Stars, Democrats or Richard Dawkins....Saul Alinsky is giggling in his grave over the fact that his ideas are used on, of all places a Gun Forum based out of the "Buckle of the Bible Belt" (as Johnny "Cougar" Mellencamp once said of Indiana way back in the 80's.....) I enjoy your posts...and your avatar (which you so graciously told me the background on when I first joined INGO.)

 

[MisterChester]

Hiya,

I'd say I'm more a Progressive than a liberal, with libertarian tendencies; but, all and all, I figure liberal fits me more than anything else (independent became u

One could easily say one is independent, but the term has become meaningless – or maybe it was always so? No, I would say I am more Progressive of the Paul Krugman stripe, with libertarian tendencies when it comes to personal rights. So call me what you may, but I figure liberal fits me better than mere Democrat. (Admittedly, I’d also like to take back a word that has become a bogeyman of a term.)

So, here I am. Pleasure to meet you. My name is Draco, by and by.

I know what you mean. I am stuck in the center-left somewhere with a lot of libertarian streaks. Both parties **** me off, but the GOP pisses me off slightly more.

 

[Jack Burton]

LE thinks you are a troll.

INGO teachers and administrators think you are a troll. They agree, the straw men you build about public education are laugh out funny. The same goes for medicine. For many, you've entered Rambone Zone. It's quite funny to see you buzz around and refuse to back up your vomit.

You obviously have me confused with another poster. But that's okay. It's good to get stuff off your chest even if it is nonsense.

 

[Jack Burton]

Please don't Jack...I don't think you are a troll...

It seems that (some, not even close to all but some) Liberal INGO'ers defininition of a troll is anyone who espouses an opinion different from Pop Stars, Democrats or Richard Dawkins....Saul Alinsky is giggling in his grave over the fact that his ideas are used on, of all places a Gun Forum based out of the "Buckle of the Bible Belt" (as Johnny "Cougar" Mellencamp once said of Indiana way back in the 80's.....) I enjoy your posts...and your avatar (which you so graciously told me the background on when I first joined INGO.)

You can always tell a liberal here on INGO... but you can't tell them much...

 

[Draco]

Please don't Jack...I don't think you are a troll...

It seems that (some, not even close to all but some) Liberal INGO'ers defininition of a troll is anyone who espouses an opinion different from Pop Stars, Democrats or Richard Dawkins....Saul Alinsky is giggling in his grave over the fact that his ideas are used on, of all places a Gun Forum based out of the "Buckle of the Bible Belt" (as Johnny "Cougar" Mellencamp once said of Indiana way back in the 80's.....) I enjoy your posts...and your avatar (which you so graciously told me the background on when I first joined INGO.)

Is that so? Here I thought I came to discuss a topic and learn something of it, to challenge my opinion and to better tailor it to reality. If anything, I’ve followed the scientific method in taking my premise and looking to actively disprove it; meanwhile, I’ve been presented with zero from pre-2008. It’s very likely out there and I ought to feel bad for not having dedicated time to disproving things quietly and personally; however, I figured I’d allow you all to inform me, seeing as I thought that the purpose of this here discussion.

Instead, I get things decidedly not of that era; 2010 is, you might be surprised to learn, after 2008. Instead I get what passes for snark and discouragement, such things that further no end; no one comes out wiser or better for the experience. Curiously, though, if that is the liberal definition of a troll, and if I came here seeking those of an opposing opinion, then I came here to feed the trolls by your own theory. If that is so, why would I be so concerned about possibly feeding them? Ah, but there I go again, dissecting the tongue-in-cheek in that logical kind of way. I see my error here, though, I ought not suppose in the future that a thread creator has something to say on the matter.

Very lulz, though, opening a thread lamenting the lack of liberal, pro-gun candidates and then being rather antagonistic from that point on.

Truly, and I say this in all earnest and with humor put aside, if I am wrong show me that I am. Don’t get irked with me because convincing those not of your mindset is more difficult than it is preaching to your own proverbial choir. It is always harder to change a mind than it is to make one feel secure that’s its preconceived opinion is right.*

Shy of that, though, I stand by my statement; I go on at the risk of feeding trolls. If you take that as me outright calling folks a troll, then it sounds more akin to the offended having a troublesome conscience or others suspecting the same.

Nevertheless, you all are right; I am a newbie, and I came here to learn something. At what point did that become a bad thing, exactly?

*Maybe this is why educational institutions are always considered so liberal, what with there being so few conservatives accustomed to addressing any but their own flock?

 

[indiucky]

Is that so? Here I thought I came to discuss a topic and learn something of it, to challenge my opinion and to better tailor it to reality. If anything, I’ve followed the scientific method in taking my premise and looking to actively disprove it; meanwhile, I’ve been presented with zero from pre-2008. It’s very likely out there and I ought to feel bad for not having dedicated time to disproving things quietly and personally; however, I figured I’d allow you all to inform me, seeing as I thought that the purpose of this here discussion.

Instead, I get things decidedly not of that era; 2010 is, you might be surprised to learn, after 2008. Instead I get what passes for snark and discouragement, such things that further no end; no one comes out wiser or better for the experience. Curiously, though, if that is the liberal definition of a troll, and if I came here seeking those of an opposing opinion, then I came here to feed the trolls by your own theory. If that is so, why would I be so concerned about possibly feeding them? Ah, but there I go again, dissecting the tongue-in-cheek in that logical kind of way. I see my error here, though, I ought not suppose in the future that a thread creator has something to say on the matter.

Very lulz, though, opening a thread lamenting the lack of liberal, pro-gun candidates and then being rather antagonistic from that point on.

Truly, and I say this in all earnest and with humor put aside, if I am wrong show me that I am. Don’t get irked with me because convincing those not of your mindset is more difficult than it is preaching to your own proverbial choir. It is always harder to change a mind than it is to make one feel secure that’s its preconceived opinion is right.*

Shy of that, though, I stand by my statement; I go on at the risk of feeding trolls. If you take that as me outright calling folks a troll, then it sounds more akin to the offended having a troublesome conscience or others suspecting the same.

Nevertheless, you all are right; I am a newbie, and I came here to learn something. At what point did that become a bad thing, exactly?

*Maybe this is why educational institutions are always considered so liberal, what with there being so few conservatives accustomed to addressing any but their own flock?

Buddy I read your post and I don't see how you got that from my defense of Jack Burton not being a troll but it is apparent that you did...You did or said nothing wrong...I don't do "irked" and I apologise if I came off that way......

I am reminded of an interview where Trey Parker (one of the creators of "South Park") was asked about how his humor is viewed by the Left and Right and he said something along the lines of "Conservatives laugh at themselves when we make fun of them and Liberals get real butt hurt when we make fun of them.." (I am paraphrasing ofcourse but that was the gist of it....)

Honestly the only cure I have seen for liberalism is age, a decent paycheck, birth of a child, a marriage or a mugging... I remember being in my 20's and saying "OMG!!! Sting says all of the Rainforests are going to be gone in 30 years if we don't do something!!!" and now I have lived those 30 years and the rainforests are still there and Sting has moved on to something else to blame on the Right...It's just the way it goes....I like Pop Stars...I just no longer get my Political advice from them.......

Anyway..Here is a clip of a young liberal explaining how we all just have to do something...Enjoy.....My favorite Liberals are the ones that poke fun at themselves..."Portlandia" (the TV series) is a perfect example as well as this song from the film "Forgeting Sarah Marshall".......

I also hardly think that Conservatives have a lock on "addressing any but their own flock?"....


I remember an REM concert I went to that opened my eyes...Michael Stipe had requested everyone that attended the concert get a flyer stating what REM "Stands" for (the first single off of "Green" was "Stand"....) I am going down the list...Save the Rainforest. Check. Save the whales. Check. Vote Liberal. Check. Brady Campaign to ban handguns...Uh...No thanks....

Well anyway...All of you good hearted liberals please continue to "Do something.." But maybe give it a break for a year..I don't know how much more the Republic can stand of "We have got to do something..."

[video=youtube;mI4XLhY10VA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI4XLhY10VA[/video]

 

[Jack Burton]

Is that so? Here I thought I came to discuss a topic and learn something of it, to challenge my opinion and to better tailor it to reality. If anything, I’ve followed the scientific method in taking my premise and looking to actively disprove it; meanwhile, I’ve been presented with zero from pre-2008. It’s very likely out there and I ought to feel bad for not having dedicated time to disproving things quietly and personally; however, I figured I’d allow you all to inform me, seeing as I thought that the purpose of this here discussion.

Instead, I get things decidedly not of that era; 2010 is, you might be surprised to learn, after 2008. Instead I get what passes for snark and discouragement, such things that further no end; no one comes out wiser or better for the experience. Curiously, though, if that is the liberal definition of a troll, and if I came here seeking those of an opposing opinion, then I came here to feed the trolls by your own theory. If that is so, why would I be so concerned about possibly feeding them? Ah, but there I go again, dissecting the tongue-in-cheek in that logical kind of way. I see my error here, though, I ought not suppose in the future that a thread creator has something to say on the matter.

Very lulz, though, opening a thread lamenting the lack of liberal, pro-gun candidates and then being rather antagonistic from that point on.

Truly, and I say this in all earnest and with humor put aside, if I am wrong show me that I am. Don’t get irked with me because convincing those not of your mindset is more difficult than it is preaching to your own proverbial choir. It is always harder to change a mind than it is to make one feel secure that’s its preconceived opinion is right.*

Shy of that, though, I stand by my statement; I go on at the risk of feeding trolls. If you take that as me outright calling folks a troll, then it sounds more akin to the offended having a troublesome conscience or others suspecting the same.

Nevertheless, you all are right; I am a newbie, and I came here to learn something. At what point did that become a bad thing, exactly?

*Maybe this is why educational institutions are always considered so liberal, what with there being so few conservatives accustomed to addressing any but their own flock?

Tedious, to be sure.

 

[88GT]

You obviously have me confused with another poster. But that's okay. It's good to get stuff off your chest even if it is nonsense.

I believe he was referring to me. He dislikes my stance on who should own children and who should be responsible for their education.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I believe he was referring to me. He dislikes my stance on who should own children and who should be responsible for their education.

Just as long as they are getting asylum for home schooling.... Lol

 

[88GT]

Just as long as they are getting asylum for home schooling.... Lol

Nope. Not for homeschooling. For religious freedom. Germany specifically targets homeschooling as a backdoor effort to restrict religious freedom. They have said as much.

 

[Jack Burton]

I believe he was referring to me. He dislikes my stance on who should own children and who should be responsible for their education.

We started homeschooling our 1st in 1984 and our youngest graduated from homeschool high school in 2005. That gave us 21 years of experience in it, in three different states. Got a lot of stories from it over the years.

 

[copperhead-1911]

I know what you mean. I am stuck in the center-left somewhere with a lot of libertarian streaks. Both parties **** me off, but the GOP pisses me off slightly more.

The GOP is less likely to screw with your guns though. I tell people that are left or center left that if they are voting libs they need to tell the libs guns are not a political issue. Look at how gays rallied around liberals. Many democrats you would never expect to support gay marriage from very conservative anti-Obama states came out in support of it ( after re-election in many cases)

 

[copperhead-1911]

Just as long as they are getting asylum for home schooling.... Lol

Christians don't get that for being Christian. Illegal invaders get it for breaking into the country, reproducing at alarming rates, and thus insuring a new block of voters.

 

[Draco]

Buddy I read your post and I don't see how you got that from my defense of Jack Burton not being a troll but it is apparent that you did...You did or said nothing wrong...I don't do "irked" and I apologise if I came off that way......

I am reminded of an interview where Trey Parker (one of the creators of "South Park") was asked about how his humor is viewed by the Left and Right and he said something along the lines of "Conservatives laugh at themselves when we make fun of them and Liberals get real butt hurt when we make fun of them.." (I am paraphrasing ofcourse but that was the gist of it....)

Honestly the only cure I have seen for liberalism is age, a decent paycheck, birth of a child, a marriage or a mugging... I remember being in my 20's and saying "OMG!!! Sting says all of the Rainforests are going to be gone in 30 years if we don't do something!!!" and now I have lived those 30 years and the rainforests are still there and Sting has moved on to something else to blame on the Right...It's just the way it goes....I like Pop Stars...I just no longer get my Political advice from them.......

Anyway..Here is a clip of a young liberal explaining how we all just have to do something...Enjoy.....My favorite Liberals are the ones that poke fun at themselves..."Portlandia" (the TV series) is a perfect example as well as this song from the film "Forgeting Sarah Marshall".......

I also hardly think that Conservatives have a lock on "addressing any but their own flock?"....


I remember an REM concert I went to that opened my eyes...Michael Stipe had requested everyone that attended the concert get a flyer stating what REM "Stands" for (the first single off of "Green" was "Stand"....) I am going down the list...Save the Rainforest. Check. Save the whales. Check. Vote Liberal. Check. Brady Campaign to ban handguns...Uh...No thanks....

Well anyway...All of you good hearted liberals please continue to "Do something.." But maybe give it a break for a year..I don't know how much more the Republic can stand of "We have got to do something..."

Apologies are due then, sorry about that; I had been meaning to put another quote midway as a pivot, but got sidetracked and forgot about it midway. X.x

True, though, conservatives don’t have a lock on the preaching to the flock problem, but they seem swifter – though perhaps this is tainted by perspective on my part? – to give up on a lesson, whether they are receiving or giving, if a group is not taking to it very well. In a way, it may be better to do so, as one will gain more supporters by taking the low-hanging fruit of ideological peers, but it leaves those of other minds untouched. Then again, they’d say of me that I’d talk ‘til I was blue in the face if only to get my view understood, much less supported.

Though now you have my curious, at what age ought I stop being liberal? It’s good to know what I’ve got laying ahead of me. :P Money does seem to change a lot of folks’ political views, though, and I always thought that kind of curious; cynicism has an easy answer for it, though I’d hope it would be more complex than that. I will say, though, there are few ways to quicker drive home the point that police are reactionary at best than being on the wrong end of a mugging. They can take all the notes they want, but the odds of anything coming of it are miniscule. In this case, the boy scouts got it right: Be Prepared.

Anyway, I’ll see about taking a year off just as soon as things around me stop needing fixing. :P Until then, I don’t see that I’ve much choice in the matter, you know? Granted, the things I’m looking to fix don’t much include the rain forest – and I’ve about no ability to really affect change on any meaningful scale – but such is life; or maybe I ought to learn to leave things be, but that’s one more thing to do, isn’t it?

Tedious, to be sure.

As eloquent as it is informative; well played, sir.

 

[MisterChester]

The GOP is less likely to screw with your guns though. I tell people that are left or center left that if they are voting libs they need to tell the libs guns are not a political issue. Look at how gays rallied around liberals. Many democrats you would never expect to support gay marriage from very conservative anti-Obama states came out in support of it ( after re-election in many cases)

You are right, but I'm not a one-issue voter.

 

[Ironhippie]

Is there such thing as a gun loving liberal? I think it's possible but they are far and few between. It's easier to find gun owners that simply lean to the left rather than be a bleeding heart liberal. I myself agree with the Democratic Party more than the GOP in general but I'm very cautious to support any candidate from either party.

Im always fascinated with people such as yourself. When you say you lean to the left and agree with the Democratic party more than the GOP. What issues are those you lean left on? Really im curious. Is it expansion of the welfare state, larger Govt and greater income redistribution? Or maybe sinking billions into companies that claim to be able to provide an alternative energy source for the betterment of the environment but then go bankrupt. How about education reform....and the increase in taxes thats going to cause just so we can send an illegal to college and provide them with contraception to boot. Could it be that you really believe that socialized health care provided by the Govt is a good thing. Does leaning left mean that you support amnesty for illegals? Is it that you also believe in the collective? From each according to his ability to each according to his need. Are these some of the areas you lean left on? I really would like to understand people like you.

 

[copperhead-1911]

Im always fascinated with people such as yourself. When you say you lean to the left and agree with the Democratic party more than the GOP. What issues are those you lean left on? Really im curious. Is it expansion of the welfare state, larger Govt and greater income redistribution? Or maybe sinking billions into companies that claim to be able to provide an alternative energy source for the betterment of the environment but then go bankrupt. How about education reform....and the increase in taxes thats going to cause just so we can send an illegal to college and provide them with contraception to boot. Could it be that you really believe that socialized health care provided by the Govt is a good thing. Does leaning left mean that you support amnesty for illegals? Is it that you also believe in the collective? From each according to his ability to each according to his need. Are these some of the areas you lean left on? I really would like to understand people like you.

not speaking for the person, but I know many who say that point to issues like gay marriage, abortion and other issues like that as a reason for supporting democrats instead of repubs. Not even debating those I often tell people that if they are a gun person and support the left they need to let the left know that there are gun supporters on the left and if they take them for granted ( if they are smart enough) they will go elsewhere. /

 

[Killion]

'Gun loving liberals' are welcome to the debate, but who can they vote for? - St. Louis gun rights | Examiner.com

So we aren't allowed to call them Libards anymore?

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Im always fascinated with people such as yourself. When you say you lean to the left and agree with the Democratic party more than the GOP. What issues are those you lean left on? Really im curious. Is it expansion of the welfare state, larger Govt and greater income redistribution? Or maybe sinking billions into companies that claim to be able to provide an alternative energy source for the betterment of the environment but then go bankrupt. How about education reform....and the increase in taxes thats going to cause just so we can send an illegal to college and provide them with contraception to boot. Could it be that you really believe that socialized health care provided by the Govt is a good thing. Does leaning left mean that you support amnesty for illegals? Is it that you also believe in the collective? From each according to his ability to each according to his need. Are these some of the areas you lean left on? I really would like to understand people like you.

For me, It's not so much the issues. It's that Republican politicians just don't seem like they're very nice guys.

 

[MisterChester]

Im always fascinated with people such as yourself. When you say you lean to the left and agree with the Democratic party more than the GOP. What issues are those you lean left on? Really im curious. Is it expansion of the welfare state, larger Govt and greater income redistribution? Or maybe sinking billions into companies that claim to be able to provide an alternative energy source for the betterment of the environment but then go bankrupt. How about education reform....and the increase in taxes thats going to cause just so we can send an illegal to college and provide them with contraception to boot. Could it be that you really believe that socialized health care provided by the Govt is a good thing. Does leaning left mean that you support amnesty for illegals? Is it that you also believe in the collective? From each according to his ability to each according to his need. Are these some of the areas you lean left on? I really would like to understand people like you.

i lean left on social issues. I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage (more so just getting government out of marriage entirely), pro-pot legalization. I am for increased spending on education, NASA, and the environment. I am content with a progressive tax structure but am open minded on flat tax ideas. I do think that taxes are too low on the richest of the rich but too high for the companies and organizations, I consider the companies the real job creators and not the people that sit on yachts and sip margaritas. I think religious organizations should be taxed. I believe in economic stimulus but what bush and Obama have done were wrong on how it was done.

Now on what I agree with on the right: gun rights biggest of all. I believe in punishment instead of rehabilitation on crime. I don't think illegal immigrants should get a free pass. If they can prove they are good citizens then we should open up citizenship opportunities.

I have many issues with both parties, for me personally it's hard to support either one because I'm divided amongst them. I don't expect you to understand my positions and that's fine. I went to school and got a BS in economics so that definitely opened my eyes a bit, and some opinions I've read on INGO about the economy don't make a lot of sense but I'm not going to sit here and give an economics lesson. I used to be very liberal I admit, but I've seemed to center out quite a bit now.