Al-Qaeda forces capture Fallujah, Iraq... declare it an Islamic state

[Jludo]

No it wasnt... I was 4 years old but somehow I remember this and is one of the reason I enlisted...


Halabja chemical attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because they did something bad?
I can give you a laundry list of bad things any number of countries have done and none of them in themselves justify an invasion nor a good reason to enlist.

 

[jbombelli]

While the anger is understandable, the US Military isn't supposed to be in the vendetta business. If Dubya did Invade Iraq because of that (and I disagree that he did), he should at least be willing to fight himself rather than put other people in harm's way. "Everything" in your "power," is easy, when it isn't your blood being spilt.

The military is in the business of doing what it's told. World War 1 started with the assassination of one man. This sort of thing often starts wars. I'm sure you understand that. And Hussein surely knew that. He gambled and lost.

 

[Jludo]

The military is in the business of doing what it's told. World War 1 started with the assassination of one man. This sort of thing often starts wars. I'm sure you understand that. And Hussein surely knew that. He gambled and lost.

Who really lost though? Would anyone say the cost in lives and treasure justified killing one dictator?

 

[Trigger Time]

Do they have a king or queen that Obama can bow down to? I'm sure the Kenyan in chief is just jumping at the chance.

 

[hornadylnl]

Who really lost though? Would anyone say the cost in lives and treasure justified killing one dictator?

The 4486 American Soldiers who died from 2003 to 2012 and their families certainly weren't winners.

iCasualties: Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom Casualties

 

[jbombelli]

I guess some people around here are okay with foreign powers assassinating our elected leaders or former elected leaders. Or at least ignoring them when they try.

Does that about sum it up?

 

[ForceTA308]

One question is this. Does the average goat farmer in Iraq have a better or worse quality of life for us invading? He isn't concerned with what Saddam did or didn't do or if we were justified in invading. If his life is worse, he'll blame America. Did we create more terrorists than we eliminated?

I would say that's a double edged sword. There were people, families, and even communities where we aided in their infrastructure and quality of life. This was mostly when it came to farming, irrigation, removal of IED's or other dangerous environments that they were subject to just as us, etc... However, I'm sure there was collateral damage caused that would result in what you're saying here. Maybe not the extent to create a terrorist of all of them but certainly resentment towards our presence and America in general.

 

[hornadylnl]

I guess some people around here are okay with foreign powers assassinating our elected leaders or former elected leaders. Or at least ignoring them when they try.

Does that about sum it up?

I guess some people around here are okay with our government sending of 4486 people to die for our elected leaders or former elected leaders. Luckily they themselves weren't one of the 4486.

Does that about sum it up?

I'm sure you'd willingly sacrifice that many men and women if the assassination attempt were on an Obama family member.

 

[Jludo]

I guess some people around here are okay with foreign powers assassinating our elected leaders or former elected leaders. Or at least ignoring them when they try.

Does that about sum it up?

Who's ok with foreign powers assassinating our elected leaders ? It just doesn't justify the Iraq invasion. That'd be a false dichotomy.
How many times has the CIA tried to assassinate or overthrow a foreign leader?

 

[hornadylnl]

I would say that's a double edged sword. There were people, families, and even communities where we aided in their infrastructure and quality of life. This was mostly when it came to farming, irrigation, removal of IED's or other dangerous environments that they were subject to just as us, etc... However, I'm sure there was collateral damage caused that would result in what you're saying here. Maybe not the extent to create a terrorist of all of them but certainly resentment towards our presence and America in general.

I don't know what percentage of Iraqis hate us more now than they did before or not. But many seem to believe that no matter what we do abroad, it should never have any consequences such as creating more terrorists. If I were a goat farmer in Iraq or Afghanistan and a US bomb killed my family, I wouldn't much care what Saddam did or didn't do.

 

[Jludo]

I guess some people around here are okay with our government sending of 4486 people to die for our elected leaders or former elected leaders. Luckily they themselves weren't one of the 4486.

Does that about sum it up?

I'm sure you'd willingly sacrifice that many men and women if the assassination attempt were on an Obama family member.

Exactly, what's the value of a US elected official in US peoples lives? I'd argue a US politician is no more valuable than any other US citizen...

 

[hornadylnl]

Exactly, what's the value of a US elected official in US peoples lives? I'd argue a US politician is no more valuable than any other US citizen...

I'm betting the party affiliation will weigh heavily on the value.

 

[Jludo]

I'm betting the party affiliation will weigh heavily on the value.

Hah very good point.

 

[Dead Duck]

It's just pretty clear we accomplished plenty [STRIKE]nothing and if anything made it worse[/STRIKE]. The people there are [STRIKE]n't[/STRIKE] definitely better off, [STRIKE]we aren't better off[/STRIKE]. Kind of makes everyone realize what a colossal mistake [STRIKE]invading[/STRIKE] pulling out was.

FIFY


So - Getting gassed and tortured by your own government is a good thing?
Or do you just disagree with anything my country's soldiers do, out of some principal of yours.

 

[Kutnupe14]

FIFY


So - Getting gassed and tortured by your own government is a good thing?
Or do you just disagree with anything my country's soldiers do, out of some principal of yours.

What makes Iraq's internal affairs our business?

 

[ViperJock]

One question is this. Does the average goat farmer in Iraq have a better or worse quality of life for us invading? He isn't concerned with what Saddam did or didn't do or if we were justified in invading. If his life is worse, he'll blame America. Did we create more terrorists than we eliminated?

Does the average corn farmer in Indiana care if he has no rights and his life is forfeit to the whims of a mass murdering tyrant?

You're right. It's not a big deal to have no freedom. I don't know why INGO gets all excited about the loss of rights when people who don't have them so clearly don't miss them at all. Period. End of story.

 

[88GT]

One question is this. Does the average goat farmer in Iraq have a better or worse quality of life for us invading? He isn't concerned with what Saddam did or didn't do or if we were justified in invading. If his life is worse, he'll blame America. Did we create more terrorists than we eliminated?

No. Saddam did that by bringing hell down on his people with his arrogant invasion of Kuwait.

What makes Iraq's internal affairs our business?

When they violate ceasefire terms we are enforcing, I would say that makes it our business. Would you not enforce the terms of the ceasefire?

It was absolutely a mistake to invade, plain and simple.

Based on what. You have presented an opinion, but have provided nothing to support it. We had every authority to invade. There is no debate. But I don't believe that there is an absolute on whether or not the decision to do so was good/bad/indifferent. The answer probably varies depending on which consideration is placed in the limelight.

 

[Jludo]

FIFY


So - Getting gassed and tortured by your own government is a good thing?
Or do you just disagree with anything my country's soldiers do, out of some principal of yours.

You want to go down that rabbit hole? Who gave Saddam the gas and the helicopters? Who installed Saddam as dictator?
Governments all around the world are killing their people as we speak but that fact doesn't justify losing american lives in an invasion.
Your countries soldiers? Get a grip. I actually care about troops enough to not throw them into conflict on the other side of the world for no reason. My position would mean no deaths, suicides, casualties, PTSD etc. Who really cares about the soldiers, you? A politician doesn't care what happens to his fellow citizens over seas. Nationalism shouldn't be toe your government line, it should about saving your fellow Americans lives.

 

[Jludo]

No. Saddam did that by bringing hell down on his people with his arrogant invasion of Kuwait.


When they violate ceasefire terms we are enforcing, I would say that makes it our business. Would you not enforce the terms of the ceasefire?


Based on what. You have presented an opinion, but have provided nothing to support it. We had every authority to invade. There is no debate. But I don't believe that there is an absolute on whether or not the decision to do so was good/bad/indifferent. The answer probably varies depending on which consideration is placed in the limelight.

Based on protecting american lives and liberty you can't make a case for the invasion.

 

[88GT]

Based on protecting american lives and liberty you can't make a case for the invasion.

Actually, I could.