Profiteering Off Personal Protection

[jimbolucky13]

After reading your post, I have no doubt you'd make everyone's life suck if you had a badge of any type.

The world isn't black and white, and there's a whole lot of gray between following unjust laws and criminality. But I do understand that the simpleton "black and white" way of looking at everything is certainly easier than actually thinking.

My bad? I guess I didn't realize there was a "gray" area to the law. I just assumed you followed it or broke it. How dumb of me.

I guess for the sake of argument, I'll leave it at it's not worth it to me. Basically doing a straw sale for a stranger for profit that is. I would rather follow the law, and keep my rights, than make A few hundred bucks.

 

[Sajer]

It's supply and demand and while I dont like it and what it does to the market, it's what it is. I choose whether to pay or not and right now I will not pay the prices that are being asked by many shops and people online.

I have mulled selling a few items i have with the hope that the ban does not go through, but i guess we will see.

 

[Dirtebiker]

You're 1 out of how many?

There are WAY too many trying to gouge!

I was just pointing out the ONE great INGOer that I noticed.


Anyway, it's more the fault of the people buying than it is the sellers!

 

[LEaSH]

I hate the gougers -HATE!

But hey, If I didn't buy what I wanted/needed 2.5 years or so ago it's on me. My fault too. Yes I had bills and expenses out the wazoo then, too.

Got kids? Got bills like everyone else? tuff *******.
You got a brain and an ability to reason, also. You didn't know that this was going to happen? Of course not, who could? But it was bad enough 4 years ago that nobody should sat on their butts and hoped this wouldn't be this way. Hope. Starting to hate that word more and more.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Nope, that's more like a 599 or 650 dollar AR-15 rifle. Or it was... before demand rose.

O.k! If he bought it for $650, and payed $45.50 in tax, then he's making $54.50 on it. (if my math is right)
Pretty fair for an "as new, in the box, never fired AR", considering those that are trying to get 100% or more profit on theirs!

 

[arthrimus]

My bad? I guess I didn't realize there was a "gray" area to the law. I just assumed you followed it or broke it. How dumb of me.

I guess for the sake of argument, I'll leave it at it's not worth it to me. Basically doing a straw sale for a stranger for profit that is. I would rather follow the law, and keep my rights, than make A few hundred bucks.

The "gray area" is the fact that unless the seller admits to it, you do not know the intent of the seller. How can you possibly judge what a person's intent was when they purchased an item that they are now selling. Are you a psychic? Did you telepathically glean that information? I doubt it. That kind of law is completely unenforceable because guilt is impossible to prove outside of confession.

Also, it is by no means a "straw sale" because the seller did not purchase the item at the request of a known person. The seller purchased the firearm for his own possession until such a time as he deems it worthy of sale. Who is to judge what amount of time you should have to possess an item before being allowed to resell it.

 

[jsharmon7]

It seems like the people who see no problem with the price gouging get defensive and try to call those who do have an issue "socialists" or "ATF wanna-bes" or whatever else oh-so-creative name they can think up. The issue is that kut, or anybody else, isn't trying to restrict anybody or trying to push for rule changes here on INGO. Can it not be discussed that some of us think it's shameful? If Fenway put it up for a vote today I wouldn't vote to restrict prices or enact new rules. At the same time, I will never do business with any of the folks I see down in the classifieds charging insane prices for junk WASRS and whatever else they think they can ask double the price for. I'm not trying to restrict anybody's ability to charge stupid prices, I just agree with kut that it's unethical to try to take advantage of something that has the potential to hurt all of us who love firearms and shooting sports. If there is an AWB or any other changes, it's going to be bad news for all of us. The fact that some have chosen to embrace that in order to make a buck is counterintuitive to what this forum is supposed to be about.

 

[hornadylnl]

It seems like the people who see no problem with the price gouging get defensive and try to call those who do have an issue "socialists" or "ATF wanna-bes" or whatever else oh-so-creative name they can think up. The issue is that kut, or anybody else, isn't trying to restrict anybody or trying to push for rule changes here on INGO. Can it not be discussed that some of us think it's shameful? If Fenway put it up for a vote today I wouldn't vote to restrict prices or enact new rules. At the same time, I will never do business with any of the folks I see down in the classifieds charging insane prices for junk WASRS and whatever else they think they can ask double the price for. I'm not trying to restrict anybody's ability to charge stupid prices, I just agree with kut that it's unethical to try to take advantage of something that has the potential to hurt all of us who love firearms and shooting sports. If there is an AWB or any other changes, it's going to be bad news for all of us. The fact that some have chosen to embrace that in order to make a buck is counterintuitive to what this forum is supposed to be about.

Then what is the point of all these posts if they're not attempting to shut down high prices? What should people charging for AR's and pmags and why haven't you listed yours at those prices?

The only thing that will bring prices back to normal is increasing supply. Complaining about high prices won't bring them down. Posting your stuff for sale will.

 

[Dimsdale]

I work in a retail setting and we haven't raised our prices so these asshats that come in and buy to resell it for at least double the price get under my skin. They have no interest in standing together.

 

[jsharmon7]

Then what is the point of all these posts if they're not attempting to shut down high prices?

I thought this was a discussion board where people discuss things. What are you here for?

What should people charging for AR's and pmags and why haven't you listed yours at those prices?

Again, I'm not telling anyone what they should list for, I'm just discussing the issue. I think it's shameful that people are digging things out of the safe to profit off a bad situation as some have openly admitted. They can do what they want though, and I'll continue to think it's wrong and will continue not to do business with those people in the future. I'm not selling at lower prices because I'm not selling anything like that. If I were to sell something though I'd sell it for a fair price, or likely what I paid for it. I've gotten some good deals here on INGO and have always passed the price on if I decided to sell it. Not everyone thinks that way though.

 

[churchmouse]

I thought this was a discussion board where people discuss things. What are you here for?



Again, I'm not telling anyone what they should list for, I'm just discussing the issue. I think it's shameful that people are digging things out of the safe to profit off a bad situation as some have openly admitted. They can do what they want though, and I'll continue to think it's wrong and will continue not to do business with those people in the future. I'm not selling at lower prices because I'm not selling anything like that. If I were to sell something though I'd sell it for a fair price, or likely what I paid for it. I've gotten some good deals here on INGO and have always passed the price on if I decided to sell it. Not everyone thinks that way though.

On point IMHO...+1

 

[theweakerbrother]

O.k! If he bought it for $650, and payed $45.50 in tax, then he's making $54.50 on it. (if my math is right)
Pretty fair for an "as new, in the box, never fired AR", considering those that are trying to get 100% or more profit on theirs!

That's a pretty big "if" because I think 650 on those isn't a good deal. "If" also isn't the real world. Also, if I had a buck for every time someone tried to sell me a "as new, in the box, never fired" anything, I'd be a millionaire. Which is just enough to buy about half a dozen panic-induced unprepared AR-15s. Maybe some of them will be even fancy enough to have forward assists AND detachable carry handles!

RADICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jimbolucky13]

The "gray area" is the fact that unless the seller admits to it, you do not know the intent of the seller. How can you possibly judge what a person's intent was when they purchased an item that they are now selling. Are you a psychic? Did you telepathically glean that information? I doubt it. That kind of law is completely unenforceable because guilt is impossible to prove outside of confession.

Also, it is by no means a "straw sale" because the seller did not purchase the item at the request of a known person. The seller purchased the firearm for his own possession until such a time as he deems it worthy of sale. Who is to judge what amount of time you should have to possess an item before being allowed to resell it.

well for example: it was bought on the 30th for $800 it's for sale the 30th for $1500. I'm not a psychic but I'm also not a fool. It's pretty easy to see what the intentions are.

Ok I'll give you the straw sale.

 

[arthrimus]

I thought this was a discussion board where people discuss things. What are you here for?



Again, I'm not telling anyone what they should list for, I'm just discussing the issue. I think it's shameful that people are digging things out of the safe to profit off a bad situation as some have openly admitted. They can do what they want though, and I'll continue to think it's wrong and will continue not to do business with those people in the future. I'm not selling at lower prices because I'm not selling anything like that. If I were to sell something though I'd sell it for a fair price, or likely what I paid for it. I've gotten some good deals here on INGO and have always passed the price on if I decided to sell it. Not everyone thinks that way though.

You're still operating under the premise that there is such a thing as an unfair price. If an item is priced higher than anyone is willing to pay then the item does not sell. If someone is willing to pay a high price then clearly they are okay with it. A price is not forced on anyone, it is mutually agreed upon. If there can be no agreement between a buyer and seller, then the item doesn't sell and absolutely nothing happens. If a seller can find a buyer who is willing to pay the asking price then who is being wronged? Do you feel that you are being wronged because someone is selling items at a price that you would not pay? What gives you the right to be offered items at the price that you deem fair? Why do the business transactions of other people matter to you so much?

I don't get upset every time a sports car that I can't afford gets sold to someone who can. Is it unfair that I cannot buy that car because I do not have enough money to do so? Is that car really worth that much? After all, it's just a bunch of metal and plastic, no different from my F-150. Why does Lamborghini get to charge so much for their cars when Ford is charging such a reasonable price?

Food for thought.

 

[Liberty1911]

I just don't understand why people have a problem with free markets.

 

[jsharmon7]

You're still operating under the premise that there is such a thing as an unfair price. If an item is priced higher than anyone is willing to pay then the item does not sell. If someone is willing to pay a high price then clearly they are okay with it. A price is not forced on anyone, it is mutually agreed upon. If there can be no agreement between a buyer and seller, then the item doesn't sell and absolutely nothing happens. If a seller can find a buyer who is willing to pay the asking price then who is being wronged?

I will agree with this. However, this is not the point I'm making in this thread. My issue is that people are coming out of the woodwork to take advantage of the likelihood of bad legislation and the panic of others. This situation is bad for the gun world and people are looking to make a buck off of it. If you have no issue with that, then fine. I simply think it's tacky. To me, it's like people are saying "Obama is going to ban these things? That's wonderful, I'll make a bundle off the panic!"

Do you feel that you are being wronged because someone is selling items at a price that you would not pay?

Again, this isn't about me, I don't feel wronged. I have no plans to buy any of the currently overpriced items. A thread was started about this topic and I chose to toss in my two cents. The fact that my opinion differs from some here apparently has caused them to think this is an issue that deeply affects me. I'm simply explaining my views as others have responded to my posts. Some have agreed with me, some have not.

What gives you the right to be offered items at the price that you deem fair?

Again, not about me and any purchases I plan to make. See above.

Why do the business transactions of other people matter to you so much?

Because it's the topic of this thread.

I don't get upset every time a sports car that I can't afford gets sold to someone who can. Is it unfair that I cannot buy that car because I do not have enough money to do so? Is that car really worth that much? After all, it's just a bunch of metal and plastic, no different from my F-150. Why does Lamborghini get to charge so much for their cars when Ford is charging such a reasonable price?

This is a strawman. Nobody is upset because they can't afford a $9,000 Barrett .50BMG. Some of us are simply seeing an ethical issue of people taking advantage of something that's bad for the gun community. I understand that's how the world operates but I hate to see it here on INGO. I've seen members here donate thousands of dollars to help out others members in need. I have seen members donate time and professional expertise to those who have needed it. We've had people open up their land for large events. We've had people offer free training courses to other members. I have had complete strangers invite me into their homes to learn to reload. I have had complete strangers invite me to their homes to shoot on their property. I have had complete strangers invite me to their local range to try some guns I had never had the opportunity to shoot. This is what is great about INGO. I'm not saying anyone is owed anything here, but I feel more comfortable dealing with people who aren't out to take advantage. There were people here long before the current market volatility that I had decided I'd never deal with because they had shown they were only here to abuse the classifieds and try to flip things for profit. I'm sure a lot of folks could care less about all that, but it matters some to me.

Bottom line: You see it as the free market at work, I see it as people trying to cash in on an erosion of our rights. We probably won't change each other's minds.

 

[jd4320t]

Can I complain in this thread about the $500+ used Glocks in the classifieds before this all happened?

 

[hornadylnl]

I will agree with this. However, this is not the point I'm making in this thread. My issue is that people are coming out of the woodwork to take advantage of the likelihood of bad legislation and the panic of others. This situation is bad for the gun world and people are looking to make a buck off of it. If you have no issue with that, then fine. I simply think it's tacky. To me, it's like people are saying "Obama is going to ban these things? That's wonderful, I'll make a bundle off the panic!"

Again, this isn't about me, I don't feel wronged. I have no plans to buy any of the currently overpriced items. A thread was started about this topic and I chose to toss in my two cents. The fact that my opinion differs from some here apparently has caused them to think this is an issue that deeply affects me. I'm simply explaining my views as others have responded to my posts. Some have agreed with me, some have not.

Again, not about me and any purchases I plan to make. See above.

Because it's the topic of this thread.

This is a strawman. Nobody is upset because they can't afford a $9,000 Barrett .50BMG. Some of us are simply seeing an ethical issue of people taking advantage of something that's bad for the gun community. I understand that's how the world operates but I hate to see it here on INGO. I've seen members here donate thousands of dollars to help out others members in need. I have seen members donate time and professional expertise to those who have needed it. We've had people open up their land for large events. We've had people offer free training courses to other members. I have had complete strangers invite me into their homes to learn to reload. I have had complete strangers invite me to their homes to shoot on their property. I have had complete strangers invite me to their local range to try some guns I had never had the opportunity to shoot. This is what is great about INGO. I'm not saying anyone is owed anything here, but I feel more comfortable dealing with people who aren't out to take advantage. There were people here long before the current market volatility that I had decided I'd never deal with because they had shown they were only here to abuse the classifieds and try to flip things for profit. I'm sure a lot of folks could care less about all that, but it matters some to me.

Bottom line: You see it as the free market at work, I see it as people trying to cash in on an erosion of our rights. We probably won't change each other's minds.

For many, throwing their 2 cents in isn't enough. They're picking fights in people's ads and then running to the rest of the forum to brag about it. Big thumbs up to those charging reasonable prices. To those who aren't, I simply move on. What someone else is willing to pay is none of my business.

Yes, there are many great people on this forum who do great things for others. They voluntarily do it. How many here would open their properties for shoots if they were being browbeaten to do so by those without property? To the point they feel entitled to come shoot on their property? We're not entitled to prices that we think they should be.

 

[Cemetery-man]

Wasn't too long ago (and even recently) that I remember members on here condemning and wanting gun owners to boycott Cheaper Than Dirt for doing the exact thing during panic times.

 

[hornadylnl]

Wasn't too long ago (and even recently) that I remember members on here condemning and wanting gun owners to boycott Cheaper Than Dirt for doing the exact thing during panic times.

Wasn't I. I didn't buy their stuff due their prices before the panic.

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Aren't gold prices what they are partly to panic? Does anyone here think that they should be able to buy gold for less than current market prices?