The Open Carry Argument

[crispy]

But the real question is: why such animosity toward those who prefer to carry differently than you? Where does that come from?

What animosity?

It is not "animosity" to state one's opinion that they don't wish to be perceived as some mall ninja vigilante type. If you don't like that characterization, I'm sorry, but that's the reality out there among the "sheeple".

BTW, It's not just the sheeple creating that perception. How many "Where did you open carry?" threads do we need? Why is that some cool thing that gun people do that they have to talk about it like that? That's nutty. Are we in high school?

 

[ATM]

What animosity?

Well, in this conversation with Unit308, he seems to really disparage those who do it differently than he does. He doesn't ask so much as assert his beliefs and label them. He started that trend in another past carry thread about OCing so it's a bit of a pattern for him.

To call attention to yourself? To feel Macho? To garner stares from those around you?
(seriously..some folks OC because if makes them feel like Superman)

I'll leave that to the Roy Rogers types.

I'd still like to know if this is born of personal insecurity or something else.
Defend your personal choices all you like, but why go on the offensive against everyone else?

 

[ATM]

... How many "Where did you open carry?" threads do we need? Why is that some cool thing that gun people do that they have to talk about it like that? That's nutty.

It helps to counter the anti-OCers who claim that you will be constantly hassled and scare people.

Truth is, that's a rather rare phenomenon.

 

[Dead Duck]

Open Carry is NOT for everyone - (although it should be)

Sex is NOT for everyone - (just ask my wife)

I just prefer to Open Carry while having Sex.
Now pass the Bacon!

What animosity?
BTW, It's not just the sheeple creating that perception. How many "Where did you open carry?" threads do we need? Why is that some cool thing that gun people do that they have to talk about it like that? That's nutty. Are we in high school?

YES WE ARE! And your point?

Educate the sheeple and lets get these times back.
Hell, we had groups that met at church and guns clubs at school and it was OK to bring them out into public. This wasn't that long ago.

Open Carry? Why? What for?
(seriously..some folks OC because if makes them feel like Superman)

I Open Carry for HEALTH Reasons -
The more people that OC, the Healthier our society will become.
That there is super, man.

 

[watkins1988]

i read the whole thing and i still choose to cc. i choose that because i dont want anyone to know i carry. going back to the situation where a criminal comes into a store and sees an armed person, if the guy runs into the store gun drawn and mask on, theres no going back. the ball is rolling theres no going back. i cant imagine he would see me with my gun on my hip and just run out. he has a gun, his adrenaline is pumping, im a threat more than anyone else in the store. chances are he is gonna use that gun in his hand to shoot me. eliminate his threat and continue with what he was doing. hes not worried about the difference between robbery and murder. he wants to get in and out as quickly as possible and if that means eliminating me, than thats what he is gonna do.

 

[Roadie]

i read the whole thing and i still choose to cc. i choose that because i dont want anyone to know i carry.

Awesome, I agree with it being your choice.

going back to the situation where a criminal comes into a store and sees an armed person, if the guy runs into the store gun drawn and mask on, theres no going back. the ball is rolling theres no going back. i cant imagine he would see me with my gun on my hip and just run out. he has a gun, his adrenaline is pumping, im a threat more than anyone else in the store. chances are he is gonna use that gun in his hand to shoot me. eliminate his threat and continue with what he was doing. hes not worried about the difference between robbery and murder. he wants to get in and out as quickly as possible and if that means eliminating me, than thats what he is gonna do.

NOW you lost me..
So you read all 285 posts, including the articles that stated criminals usually avoid armed citizens, little to no recorded cases of "bad guy targets armed citizen" incidents, etc etc and yet you STILL came to the conclusion OCing will make you a target?

I Googled it and can find "Armed Citizen Takes Down Gunman [URL="http://www.seattlepi.com/local/komo/article/Citizen-takes-down-gunman-after-shooting-in-Skyway-1751843.php"]During Robbery"[/URL] stories, but I can't find any "Gunman Takes Down Armed Citizen During Robbery" stories.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/komo...n-gunman-after-shooting-in-Skyway-1751843.php

 

[ATM]

i read the whole thing and i still choose to cc. i choose that because i dont want anyone to know i carry.

But why don't you want anyone to know you carry? What are your reasons for that desire?

...going back to the situation where a criminal comes into a store and sees an armed person...

The hypothetical situation you use is so popular and often stated as a reason for concealment that those who believe it cannot even be swayed by the fact that it really doesn't happen.

When coupled with the "element of surprise", they dominate the reasons given by such a landslide, they truly deserved their own thread:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/37307-common_oc_cc_threadjack.html

On the other hand, if that one improbable scenario so consumed my thoughts that I would always feel uneasy OCing regardless, I would probably just conceal as well.
I wouldn't attempt use the old "1st one shot" as an actual reason (because it's not very rational), I'd just attribute my choice to staying within my personal comfort zone.

 

[FutureButterBar]

i read the whole thing and i still choose to cc. i choose that because i dont want anyone to know i carry. going back to the situation where a criminal comes into a store and sees an armed person, if the guy runs into the store gun drawn and mask on, theres no going back. the ball is rolling theres no going back. i cant imagine he would see me with my gun on my hip and just run out. he has a gun, his adrenaline is pumping, im a threat more than anyone else in the store. chances are he is gonna use that gun in his hand to shoot me. eliminate his threat and continue with what he was doing. hes not worried about the difference between robbery and murder. he wants to get in and out as quickly as possible and if that means eliminating me, than thats what he is gonna do.

most people dont have enough situational awareness (im military, i can use that term) to actually see and comprend that one is open carrying. (in my experiences)

 

[jsharmon7]

most people dont have enough situational awareness (im military, i can use that term) to actually see and comprend that one is open carrying. (in my experiences)

There are several non-military folks using that term in this thread:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...elf_defense/167049-situational_awareness.html

You better get in there and edjikate them on who is allowed to use that term, as well as the consequences and repercussions of non-authorized use.

 

[watkins1988]

Roadie, youre right i googled it and i cannot find anything either. This goes to ATM's question also, when i carry i feel like if that situation happened i would feel like the center of attention. I feel like i would be his target and im not sure why. I can find nothing to support what i feel but its just the way i feel. lol. It's my choice and im not at all bashing anyone for OPing. im not against that at all. Actually I wish more people would so maybe i wouldnt feel so weird about doing it. Ive only had my LTCH for about two years.
FutureButterBar, i guess i was thinking that way because I drove an armored car for awhile and still to this day when i go into a store i am really observant. i watch everyone, know where everyone is around me, and still catch myself picking out the one that i think may be the most likely to try to rob the place. I know thats probably wrong but i do it... Its not as much as the guy comes in and looks for someone carrying a gun its that i feel if he comes in and is suprised to see someone with a gun he may just shoot me out of suprise.
Again the reason i cc is a personal choice and i want you all to know that I'm not against open carry at all.
Also to the people who cc because they feel it scares people or makes them nervous to see a gun on youre hip, the whole time i did the armored car job(i was the one that went in and filled the atms) no one once said anything about my gun and i never once got a nervous look. people were more fascinated with the cash they saw me messing with lol.

 

[ATM]

...its just the way i feel. lol. It's my choice and im not at all bashing anyone...

Go with your gut. I support you carrying in whatever manner you choose.
I just like discussing the reasons.

...(i was the one that went in and filled the atms)...

I thought you looked familiar...

 

[jeremy]

Go with your gut. I support you carrying in whatever manner you choose.
I just like discussing the reasons.



I thought you looked familiar...

Didn't realize you liked being filled...

 

[ATM]

Didn't realize you liked being filled...

I didn't actually mention whether I liked it or not.

 

[Hoosierdood]

Didn't realize you liked being filled...

Just don't ask him about all the people who he lets swipe their cards in his slot.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Who is mainsail and what credentials does he have to make his post such gospel?

Not starting an OCvCC post at all - I would rather **** in a moving fan. Just curious as to what makes his article so potent.

 

[ATM]

Who is mainsail and what credentials does he have to make his post such gospel?

Gospel is not determined by credentials - truth will do.

...Just curious as to what makes his article so potent.

Compiling rational thoughts is always potent.

 

[rhino]

On a semi-fresh note, last week Greg Garrison had Brian Ciyou as a guest to talk about the law pertaining to firearms. Most of it was really good . . . until the topic of open carry arose. He actually said that when someone carries openly, they "lose the tactical advantage." (I hope I quoted correctly)

It was . . . disappointing. Had he prefaced it with, "In my opinion," I'd have cringed, but it would have bothered me a lot less. He's rollin' through the interview as an authority on firearms law (which he is), then he said that and people listening will accept it as fact because of the context.

 

[Hoosierdood]

On a semi-fresh note, last week Greg Garrison had Brian Ciyou as a guest to talk about the law pertaining to firearms. Most of it was really good . . . until the topic of open carry arose. He actually said that when someone carries openly, they "lose the tactical advantage." (I hope I quoted correctly)

It was . . . disappointing. Had he prefaced it with, "In my opinion," I'd have cringed, but it would have bothered me a lot less. He's rollin' through the interview as an authority on firearms law (which he is), then he said that and people listening will accept it as fact because of the context.

I bought Brian Ciyou's book at the last 1500. As I was reading it, I found his position on concealed carry stated in the Q&A section of his book. He states on page 199 under the License to Carry section:

...all prudent Licensees will carry his or her handgun in a concealed manner for several reasons. <snip> ...exposed carry invites the person to be a target by a criminal in criminal activity; there is no element of surprise.

 

[ATM]

 

[Roadie]

Wow, just..wow