Motorcycle high beams

[ATOMonkey]

What? That happens all the time around here. Whether they didn't see the light or bike itself the point is they weren't seen. I'm not sure why you want to be even more "invisible" when you yourself admit that people don't see motorcycles in the first place. Brights may not help, but then again they might, so that's enough reason for me.

Happens all the time? I would challenge that statement. Most statistics show that motocycle accidents are typically the result of A) poor training B) Alcohol C) excessive speed, or a combination of the 3.

It's overwhelmingly men involved in these accidents as well. Likely because women don't ride as much and are much more risk averse compared to men.

I believe that having your brights on does nothing but distracts drivers, because it distracts me when I'm driving. It doesn't make them any more noticable or "safe" in my opinion.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I honestly have never heard another motorcycle rider say, "I ride like I'm invisible." All of my fellow riders want to be as visible to other motorists as possible, and we do so by using high beams during the day, wearing high vis gear, and riding in pairs as much as possible. We also ride smart and defensively.

One of the most common sayings in a car/motorcycle crash by the car driver is, "I never saw them."

Plus, I look at all sorts of potential hazards all around me while driving every single day, and I don't drive towards any of them. Why do you drive directly at things you look at? I guess I'm confused by that statement.

We say "ride like you're invisible" all the time. This means, ride like the cars don't see you. They "see" you with their eyes, but not their minds. They just don't register a motorcycle as an obstacle on the roadway, because they're so used to seeing cars.

I don't know how much high vis gear helps. When I'm driving I try to make a point of seeing if the gear makes the bike more or less noticable to me.

I haven't really noticed any one thing more than another. The loud pipes I don't hear until I after I pass them, the bright colors I typically don't see because a rider is pretty small compared to a car.

Riding at what you're looking at is called "target fixation" and happens frequently in single vehicle accidents. It's when you look at what you're trying to avoid and end up running into it anway. Your body's natural tendency is to go where you're looking. That is why you "Look, push, and lean" when going into a corner. The looking part is very important, not only to see where you're going but also to get your body to react properly.

 

[Tripp11]

Happens all the time? I would challenge that statement. Most statistics show that motocycle accidents are typically the result of A) poor training B) Alcohol C) excessive speed, or a combination of the 3.

It's overwhelmingly men involved in these accidents as well. Likely because women don't ride as much and are much more risk averse compared to men.

I believe that having your brights on does nothing but distracts drivers, because it distracts me when I'm driving. It doesn't make them any more noticable or "safe" in my opinion.

If running with the high beams on during the day doesn't make motorcycles more noticeable, why are you distracted by those highbeams? You have to SEE them to be distracted, right?

Plus, can I see your statistics for motorcycle accidents? I've not seen any statistics at all, nor researched, but I would like to read the info that you've seen.

 

[phrozen5100]

Complex reflectors are engineered to work with a specific bulb. Altering the focal point by inserting an HID bulb can dramatically increase glare...especially with the most common D2S bulb, not even intended for use with any complex reflector systems.

GM is the absolute worst when it comes to glare in headlamp design...just look at the newer Cadillacs and GMCs. In Europe, HID systems are more advanced and auto level beams are a requirement; hence, the reason for auto level systems in German makes of cars seen here. A well-aimed HID setup with proper cutoff and a reasonable color temperature isn't bad at all. BMW and Mercedes are generally quite good at limiting glare with their headlamp systems.

Now, if you're facing a bi-xenon equipped vehicle with high beams pointed at you, that's an entirely different story.

I'd much rather face a motorcycle with highs on than a lifted truck...or even worse, a moped with inadequate lighting on a country road.

The HID retrofit kits aren't terrible if people would re-align their lights. If you don't lower them, they'll blind the **** out of everyone around you.
Generally, even stock HIDs bother me. BMWs are the worse offenders for some reason. they make my eyes hurt.

 

[ATOMonkey]

2 rules for motorcycle riding:

1. Nobody sees you. They may look right at you, but they won't see you.
2. Everyone is out to kill you. They will cut you off, pull in front of you and try to run you over.

With these rules in mind, I understand why some riders drive with their brights on. They want to increase visibility. I was annoyed by it until I started riding myself. Now, as a rider I completely understand.

That being said, I dont use my high beam unless there is no traffic. My bike is almost as big as the compact cars on the road (I ride a Goldwing). Not only that, but I have it lit up like a Christmas tree. Eight amber lights on the front, 24 additional running lights on the back, neon underglows, and a pair of 55w halogen driving lights. I also have 2 flags that are 9"X18" on the back - American flag and Gadsden flag. Even with all that, there are still knuckleheads who cut me off and pull in front of me. That's why I also have 2 horns that are 34db each.

Now that is an attention getter.

 

[ATOMonkey]

If running with the high beams on during the day doesn't make motorcycles more noticeable, why are you distracted by those highbeams? You have to SEE them to be distracted, right?

Plus, can I see your statistics for motorcycle accidents? I've not seen any statistics at all, nor researched, but I would like to read the info that you've seen.

NHTSA recently published a fatality accident report.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pubs/810834.pdf

There is also the 1981 Hurt report

Hurt Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the MAIDS report (Europe)

MAIDS report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[eldirector]

2 rules for motorcycle riding:

1. Nobody sees you. They may look right at you, but they won't see you.
2. Everyone is out to kill you. They will cut you off, pull in front of you and try to run you over.

With these rules in mind, I understand why some riders drive with their brights on. They want to increase visibility. I was annoyed by it until I started riding myself. Now, as a rider I completely understand.

That being said, I dont use my high beam unless there is no traffic. My bike is almost as big as the compact cars on the road (I ride a Goldwing). Not only that, but I have it lit up like a Christmas tree. Eight amber lights on the front, 24 additional running lights on the back, neon underglows, and a pair of 55w halogen driving lights. I also have 2 flags that are 9"X18" on the back - American flag and Gadsden flag. Even with all that, there are still knuckleheads who cut me off and pull in front of me. That's why I also have 2 horns that are 34db each.

34dB? Does your bike whisper?
Sound pressure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I assume you mean 134 dB!

But, yeah, I'd guess your bike is as visible as a compact car. Even those still have accidents, though.

 

[Hoosierdood]

34dB? Does your bike whisper?
Sound pressure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I assume you mean 134 dB!

But, yeah, I'd guess your bike is as visible as a compact car. Even those still have accidents, though.

Yep, forgot the "1". And yes, even with all the visibility, I still ride with those 2 rules in mind. A bigger bike definitely gives more of a presence on the road, but you ALWAYS have to drive defensively as though nobody sees you. Back to the headlight thing though... even negative attention is still attention. Sure, people may get mad, but I would rather they be angry at me than have them pull in front of me or worse, try to pass a slow vehicle and hit me head on.

Man seriously injured in motorcycle accident

 

[$mooth]

Complex reflectors are engineered to work with a specific bulb. Altering the focal point by inserting an HID bulb can dramatically increase glare...especially with the most common D2S bulb, not even intended for use with any complex reflector systems.

GM is the absolute worst when it comes to glare in headlamp design...just look at the newer Cadillacs and GMCs. In Europe, HID systems are more advanced and auto level beams are a requirement; hence, the reason for auto level systems in German makes of cars seen here. A well-aimed HID setup with proper cutoff and a reasonable color temperature isn't bad at all. BMW and Mercedes are generally quite good at limiting glare with their headlamp systems.

Now, if you're facing a bi-xenon equipped vehicle with high beams pointed at you, that's an entirely different story.

I'd much rather face a motorcycle with highs on than a lifted truck...or even worse, a moped with inadequate lighting on a country road.

This is definitely true. I can't stand lifted trucks behind you at night, especially those that don't turn off their headlights in drivethrus (I leave my marker lights on, but turn off headlights in any car).
Mopeds are a whole 'nother story. I've seen way too many that don't belong on the road and are gonna end lives early.

 

[eldirector]

I suppose I should add my own $0.02, rather than just snipe.....

I find overly-bright headlights (on a bike, car, or truck) both annoying and dangerous. If I'm struck with a bright light, my first reaction is to look away. That's not exactly the best idea when driving. My next reaction is to find WTF is so bright, which also distracts from watching where I'm going.

During a bright day its not quite as bad. Bet, then again, I can already see the vehicle fine, and the light is just annoying.

My preference would be for folks to just use their daytime running lamps. They will increase your visibility without becoming overbearing or blinding. No need for brights, floods, spots, or those silly pulsers (now THOSE are distracting. Makes you look like a cop).

 

[CountryBoy19]

No need for brights, floods, spots, or those silly pulsers (now THOSE are distracting. Makes you look like a cop).

No-kidding, the pulsers are the absolute worst.

 

[schafe]

If someone is going to pull out in front of you, a bright light isn't going to help.

If you don't see a motorcycle that already has their light on, you're not going to notice if the light is a little brighter.

Most people pull out in front of motorcycles (which happens very very seldom, most motorcycle accidents only involve the motorcycle), because they're trained to see cars not motorcycles, so it just doesn't register in their head.

NHTSA recently published a fatality accident report.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pubs/810834.pdf

There is also the 1981 Hurt report

Hurt Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the MAIDS report (Europe)

MAIDS report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Small point...Not that I trust anything the NHTSA does (since the Joan Claybrook days), but the info in the NHTSA 810834, which I scanned rather quickly, appears to say that the opposite is true, at least for operator fatal crashes during the study period. Perhaps what you were saying is true of motorcycle crashes overall?, because it does seem like common sense (lots of control issues with new riders).
I was already acquainted with the Hurt report, and was aware that other studies were being patterned after Hurts landmark report.Looks like the MAIDS European report is one of those.

 

[femurphy77]

Read an interesting article about motorcycles and visibility, been trying to find it on the interwebz but no luck so far. It was discussing the issue of motorcycle visibility and ran several road tests involving motorcycles. They used two different types of bikes, plain old everday "civilian" motorcycles and dressed out cop bikes. It was interesting to read of the high number of cars pulling out in front of the civilian bikes or trying to change lanes into them etc but they did not record a single similar infraction involving the cop bikes. Kinda blows a hole in the "I didn't see them" excuse and introduces the "Yeah I saw them but what are they going to do about it" reality.. I'll keep digging, to see if I can back this up.

 

[w2k0311]

I dont find motorcyles to be nearly as offensive as over-anxious truckers, and those retarted aftermarket high intensity "blue" low beams you cannot get away from

 

[NYFelon]

Last week I saw two auto vs motorcycle accidents in a 4 mile stretch of road, 1 each day for two consecutive days. Of course, where I live it seems that running over motorcyclists is a sport practiced by suburban housewive in Their Ford ExtraGigundo SUVs.

During the day, I ride with the high beam on full-time. At night, I am just as corteous as I expect others to be to me. I turn the brights down when traffic is oncoming, or if I am behind another vehicle at a light. I typically maintain a large distance between myself and other motorists, so in motion, the light should not cause any discomfort in the driver to my immediate front.

That said, ride like they're out to get you (because they are), and keep the shiny side up.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Small point...Not that I trust anything the NHTSA does (since the Joan Claybrook days), but the info in the NHTSA 810834, which I scanned rather quickly, appears to say that the opposite is true, at least for operator fatal crashes during the study period. Perhaps what you were saying is true of motorcycle crashes overall?, because it does seem like common sense (lots of control issues with new riders).
I was already acquainted with the Hurt report, and was aware that other studies were being patterned after Hurts landmark report.Looks like the MAIDS European report is one of those.

Yes, most non-fatal crashes only involve the rider. Most of these are not reported, but if you hang out on any forum you'll find that people are constantly low-siding their bikes in gravel, or just went too fast, or hit a slick spot or whatever. There are quite a few people who ride here at work too, and I haven't ever heard of anyone t-boning a car because it pulled out in front of them. Plenty of low side stories, and people burning themsleves on exhaust after the bike falls over on them.

On my katana forum there has only been one fatal crash reported, and it only involved the rider, and one serious crash that ended up with memory loss, but the rider never reported it and never went to the hospital. Also a solo crash. So, that one won't make it into the record books.

I've read a couple stories where someone was rear-ended by a car, and a few close calls where someone pulled out in front of someone else.

When my brother high-sided the bike I have now, it was because he was riding too fast, grabbed too much front brake, and went for short flying lesson. He replaced a clutch cover and some other bits and pieces. I welded the fairings back together and shot it with paint. No insurance. In fact, I think he even rode it home.

 

[mcolford]

Did ANYONE pay attention in Drivers Education? When being hi-beamed, look towards the white line/right front of your car. This will keep the "Spots" you see after the vehicle is gone down, and your peripherial (sp?) vision will allow you to see anyways.

I know thats not the point. Yes I find people that dont dim down to be *******s. Thats why I have a nice pair of lights behind my grill, along with stock fog lights, and my headlights.


-MColford

 

[Ronald]

Happens all the time? I would challenge that statement. Most statistics show that motocycle accidents are typically the result of A) poor training B) Alcohol C) excessive speed, or a combination of the 3.

I'm not talking about accidents specifically, I'm talking about drivers pulling out causing motorcyclists to slam on the brakes, swerve, merge suddenly, etc. because they weren't seen. That happens ALL the time, and of course it doesn't get reported.

 

[Patternpimp]

If a motorcyclist is that concerned about getting hit, than take the car. I ride and manage to do it safely without using bright lights, flourescent vests or banners to alert others. Ride defensively and hone your skills on bike just like you do with firearms.

 

[sepe]

Did ANYONE pay attention in Drivers Education? When being hi-beamed, look towards the white line/right front of your car. This will keep the "Spots" you see after the vehicle is gone down, and your peripherial (sp?) vision will allow you to see anyways.

I know thats not the point. Yes I find people that dont dim down to be *******s. Thats why I have a nice pair of lights behind my grill, along with stock fog lights, and my headlights.


-MColford

They didn't teach that here. It was more of a give the finger or do a u-turn and follow until they stop so you can beat them with a tire iron.