Churches with licensed daycare.

[critter592]

I'm trying to find a way to see if my church has a licensed daycare. I can just imagine how the phone conversation would go if I called them up.

Me: Hi, do you have a licensed daycare for kids at your church?

Them: Why do you want to know?

Me: Because I want to carry my gun to church.

Now it could go many ways. They are pro 2A and tell the truth. Or are anti-gun and lie anyway thinking they are preventing a nutjob from bringing a gun on their property.

So does anyone know of an Indiana.gov webpage where a place can be looked up to see if they have the license that prevents us from carrying in their facility?

 

[cosermann]

You could start with this:

https://secure.in.gov/apps/fssa/carefinder/index.html

I found the definitions on the following page interesting:

FSSA: Becoming a Licensed or Registered Provider

Sounds like a church can also be an "unlicensed" registered provider. Not sure what difference that makes.

 

[Joe Williams]

I'm trying to find a way to see if my church has a licensed daycare. I can just imagine how the phone conversation would go if I called them up.

Me: Hi, do you have a licensed daycare for kids at your church?

Them: Why do you want to know?

Me: Because I want to carry my gun to church.

Now it could go many ways. They are pro 2A and tell the truth. Or are anti-gun and lie anyway thinking they are preventing a nutjob from bringing a gun on their property.

So does anyone know of an Indiana.gov webpage where a place can be looked up to see if they have the license that prevents us from carrying in their facility?

Well, if they are willing to lie to you... does it seem like that is a church you wish to attend?

 

[Cru]

Well, if they are willing to lie to you... does it seem like that is a church you wish to attend?

x 1,000,000

 

[critter592]

Well, if they are willing to lie to you... does it seem like that is a church you wish to attend?

I do not judge the church by the action of one person who is human capable of failing. I'm trying to be considerate and see if there is a way to find out from the state.

 

[critter592]

You could start with this:

https://secure.in.gov/apps/fssa/carefinder/index.html

I found the definitions on the following page interesting:

FSSA: Becoming a Licensed or Registered Provider

Sounds like a church can also be an "unlicensed" registered provider. Not sure what difference that makes.

to Cosermann.

Thanks for the help! I actually did start with that page and didn't find my church listed. I just don't need to get tripped up. Trying to do my due diligence.

 

[Keith_Indy]

I'm trying to find a way to see if my church has a licensed daycare. I can just imagine how the phone conversation would go if I called them up.

Me: Hi, do you have a licensed daycare for kids at your church?

Them: Why do you want to know?

Me: Because I want to carry my gun to church.

Now it could go many ways. They are pro 2A and tell the truth. Or are anti-gun and lie anyway thinking they are preventing a nutjob from bringing a gun on their property.

So does anyone know of an Indiana.gov webpage where a place can be looked up to see if they have the license that prevents us from carrying in their facility?

Why don't you say, I've got a friend who's looking for daycare instead...

Or just ask the pastor or someone in charge if you can carry your firearm in church?

 

[Joe Williams]

Why don't you say, I've got a friend who's looking for daycare instead...

Or just ask the pastor or someone in charge if you can carry your firearm in church?

Pastor may not know the laws regarding day cares and guns and say "Sure!" thereby unknowingly putting you at legal risk.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Dude, just call and ask them.

"I'm just trying to find out about if the DC there is licensed by the state or not; as I'd actually prefer a daycare I'm interested in NOT being licensed."

-J-

 

[dom1104]

Well, if they are willing to lie to you... does it seem like that is a church you wish to attend?

BOOM. Nice.

 

[rmabrey]

Pastor may not know the laws regarding day cares and guns and say "Sure!" thereby unknowingly putting you at legal risk.

But wouldnt you then be authorized thus making it legal.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Does it matter if they are licensed or not? From this definition it looks like any preschool or daycare is considered a school by Indiana law.
IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).
As added by P.L.296-1987, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.34-1991, SEC.27; P.L.9-1991, SEC.95; P.L.2-1992, SEC.880; P.L.81-1992, SEC.38; P.L.1-1993, SEC.240; P.L.160-1994, SEC.1; P.L.1-2005, SEC.227; P.L.145-2006, SEC.370.

 

[Buckaroo]

If they are operating a daycare and charging for the service then I would think the statutes highlighted above would indicate that this would be a prohibited area.

If they only have childcare during official church events and don't charge for the service, then you should be allowed to carry.

Just how I read the statutes. This is the demarcation line to my understanding: (B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;

IANAL

Buckaroo

 

[Mr. Habib]

That is what makes me curious. My church runs an unlicensed daycare during the week. however the church itself is obviously not for profit. Is it legal to carry there during church or not?

 

[E5RANGER375]

why dont you just not say anything and just conceal your weapon. who cares.

bad guys arent gonna care if its a no gun zone. why should we? Im not setting my family up for an ambush.

my life and my familys lives come before any law made by man. I will obey laws except ones that put me or my families lives in danger. then those laws are not valid in my mind or the constitution either as far as im concerned. kind of like the "no guns in indianapolis parks" law. WAHAHAHAHA, yeah right.

 

[ATM]

why dont you just not say anything and just conceal your weapon. who cares.

... kind of like the "no guns in indianapolis parks" law.

Park = fine

School = felony

...slight difference.

 

[Bondhead88]

I'm trying to find a way to see if my church has a licensed daycare. I can just imagine how the phone conversation would go if I called them up.

Me: Hi, do you have a licensed daycare for kids at your church?

Them: Why do you want to know?

Me: Because I want to carry my gun to church.

Now it could go many ways. They are pro 2A and tell the truth. Or are anti-gun and lie anyway thinking they are preventing a nutjob from bringing a gun on their property.

So does anyone know of an Indiana.gov webpage where a place can be looked up to see if they have the license that prevents us from carrying in their facility?

I just had a conversation about this type of issue just a few weeks ago.

i was at lunch with a pastor and another missionary tagged along. During the discussion he blurted out I was putting the church and the Pastor at risk by carrying my gun on church property.

He said a new law had been passed in July making it illegal to carry a gun on church property and that I could be arrested, have my gun confiscated and put the church in a bad legal situation.

I said I thought he was wrong and that I would look into it. He wanted to debate the point but I changed the conversation.

The next day I visited the Indiana legislative website and looked up the law, I then called the NRA, the State Police, my local police captain who does the local part of LTCH and a few other websites.

They all said the same thing. If the church does not operate a school or even a licensed daycare I was fine to carry. They all asked me out of curiosity if the pastor knew that I carried (which he did) It was one of the first thing I had talked about with him when we moved on church property.

I still remember his comment. "Brother, this is a gun free zone." I was almost discouraged when he added.

"If some one breaks into your home or threatens you, your family or your property you are free to zone in on him pull out your gun and protect yourself." Then laughed louder than anyone else I had ever heard laugh in my life.

So getting back to my story I went back to the pastor and both showed him the law and told him what the agencies and organizations told me.

He said he knew I would never due anything that put him at risk and had trusted what I had originally told him.

Just an example of two different type of people. And too many times busy bodies who are ill informed spread their lack of knowledge as documented fact.

 

[Bondhead88]

Does it matter if they are licensed or not? From this definition it looks like any preschool or daycare is considered a school by Indiana law.
IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).
As added by P.L.296-1987, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.34-1991, SEC.27; P.L.9-1991, SEC.95; P.L.2-1992, SEC.880; P.L.81-1992, SEC.38; P.L.1-1993, SEC.240; P.L.160-1994, SEC.1; P.L.1-2005, SEC.227; P.L.145-2006, SEC.370.

I would agree it doesn't say licensed in fact it says

(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or

Which would mean a private school which could mean religious or otherwise, which would impose on the first amendment.

If a Church or other religious body wants to have a school that does not take government money in ANY shape or form then I am against the government regulating their property.

We should not allow the government in the front door of any religious institution. I know in some states it is illegal to bring a gun into a church without the pastor's permission, or only certain people in the congregation or not at all.

The problem I see with the school thing is where it will lead. it will go from daycare or school to, Sunday School, Kids Clubs, Boy Scouts and so forth. The local congregation is able to decide and govern their own affairs as a church body.

 

[cosermann]

. . .The problem I see with the school thing is where it will lead. it will go from daycare or school to, Sunday School, Kids Clubs, Boy Scouts and so forth. The local congregation is able to decide and govern their own affairs as a church body.

+1. Repped.

If the gov't wants to regulate their own schools, the institutions they license, etc. Fine. They should stay out of private associations.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Park = fine

School = felony

...slight difference.

yeah, if your waiving it around. otherwise no ones the wiser